maybe they'll never really completely be one thing in my head.
Cant let one thing rule em all tbf
― flagpost fucking (darraghmac), Tuesday, 20 April 2021 12:13 (three years ago) link
hahaha
― Bobo Honk, real name, no gimmicks (Doctor Casino), Tuesday, 20 April 2021 12:16 (three years ago) link
Gold can't buy doughtiness
It could in 1st ed AD&D iirc.
― i bought biden some thin mints with my stimmy (PBKR), Tuesday, 20 April 2021 12:59 (three years ago) link
i wonder how much differently i'd picture Middle Earth, what's close to what, how far apart things are, if i'd never had those maps!
i know people say tolkien wrote these stories to build a world for his languages, but i kinda think he also wrote these stories to serve his maps haha
― voodoo chili, Tuesday, 20 April 2021 13:22 (three years ago) link
He said as much in his own way. I am glad both he and Christopher had the mania for them.
ned can back me up on this, but i believe an early draft of the Lothlorien section did include them paying for training in various walking and climbing skills
Hm, I don't immediately recall this but I'll have to think about it and do some digging in the relevant volumes. Monetary systems in general, like organized religion, are one of those things notable in LOTR for their absence. There's that exchange between Aragorn and Frodo in Bree where the former, still in Strider mode, says he has his 'price' and Frodo momentarily worries in that he didn't bring much money with him, for instance, and that itself builds on the fact that Frodo specifically sold Bag-End to Lobelia and then bought Crickhollow, which of course he stayed in one night and never again, making him the original flipper. Next on 'House Hunters: Buckland'...
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 20 April 2021 16:14 (three years ago) link
haha I was definitely 100% kidding, but this is a great subject to open up! i'm pretty glad there's no exposition laying out what the currency of middle earth is and how many Ranger shillings go into a dwarf-dollar. tho i'm sure rpgs have done this many times over...kind of funny that our plucky underdog heroes are also mostly landed gentry and men of leisure, plus one of their butlers.
― Bobo Honk, real name, no gimmicks (Doctor Casino), Tuesday, 20 April 2021 16:17 (three years ago) link
but also this is part of the "how much has changed in our heroes" aspect of the Scouring of the Shire --- the dispute with the wretched undeserving branch of the Baggins family would have been such a big deal for them at the start, and is now very easily resolved and indeed the Sackville-Bagginses (iirc) are now just sort of pitiful and handled with a much lighter touch. a very different Frodo than the one who wished Bilbo had killed Gollum when he had the chance.
― Bobo Honk, real name, no gimmicks (Doctor Casino), Tuesday, 20 April 2021 16:23 (three years ago) link
Right -- and that'll doubtless feed into our next episode: we're talking about the Scouring of the Shire.
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 20 April 2021 16:30 (three years ago) link
Meantime, speaking of episodes, another podcast on our network, The Spouter-Inn (a general literature podcast, cohosted by our network founder and one-time ILX board vet Chris Piuma), has a new episode up specifically on Fellowship:
We conclude our cluster on Land with a look at the many lands in The Fellowship of the Ring, the first part of J.R.R. Tolkien's foundational fantasy novel The Lord of the Rings. #Tolkien #LOTRListen on your podcast app or at https://t.co/xbeSYwzfOD pic.twitter.com/pcU1ueQPdQ— The Spouter-Inn (@TheSpouter) April 20, 2021
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 20 April 2021 16:37 (three years ago) link
oooo sounds very relevant! downloading. and looking forward to the Scouring episode - easily one of my favorite parts of the entire series; i definitely align with those who see it as really really really crucial to everything.
― Bobo Honk, real name, no gimmicks (Doctor Casino), Tuesday, 20 April 2021 17:52 (three years ago) link
Big fan of Merry bringing low the enemy's hated, hitherto-invincible captain with a one-in-a-million sword he plundered from a place of great danger and carried south for many miles, preventing Eowyn from being splattered into paste in the process, and then goes up to a dying Theoden and immediately apologises for not doing anything useful while in his service
― hiroyoshi tins in (Sgt. Biscuits), Monday, 26 April 2021 17:45 (three years ago) link
lol"oh, no, no, that was just beginner's luck, really"
― Bobo Honk, real name, no gimmicks (Doctor Casino), Monday, 26 April 2021 18:05 (three years ago) link
You gotta underplay, you see.
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 26 April 2021 18:19 (three years ago) link
I still picture that whole scene with the fairly corny Nazgul from Rankin Bass, with the floating eyes/crown and metallic echo Skeletor laugh. Not exactly as effective as their Gollum or Smaug, but striking in its way.
― Bobo Honk, real name, no gimmicks (Doctor Casino), Monday, 26 April 2021 18:31 (three years ago) link
The translation of how to do the eyes visually has always been a bit of a trick. Rankin Bass did that while the rest of their Nazgul were more withered skeletal types, Bakshi did the red eyes in the hood deal from the start but of course never did that scene, and Jackson used the helmet/crown as a bit of a visual trick for their version.
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 26 April 2021 18:53 (three years ago) link
Meanwhile at Rivendell, Glorfindel spits his drink out
― hiroyoshi tins in (Sgt. Biscuits), Monday, 26 April 2021 18:54 (three years ago) link
Our new episode next week but another Spouter-Inn episode on Tolkien with my cohost Oriana so check it out!
But we're not totally done talking Tolkien! Oriana Schwindt (@Schwindter) from Tolkien podcast @BytheBywater joins us for a bonus episode, where we discuss rivers, stars, and, OK, a little bit more about Tom Bombadil.Listen at https://t.co/64cg3Yo00f— The Spouter-Inn (@TheSpouter) April 30, 2021
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 30 April 2021 17:22 (three years ago) link
Christine Kelley at Eruditorum Press (Elizabeth Sandifer's mob) has a psychogeography of Middle Earth going on as well, not as far as I can tell linked itt yet: https://www.eruditorumpress.com/blog/category/nowhere-and-back-again
― Andrew Farrell, Friday, 30 April 2021 17:55 (three years ago) link
Oh that looks good!
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 30 April 2021 18:31 (three years ago) link
Just reread the bit in Sam and Frodo's initial scouting of Gorgoroth where the diminutive, big-nosed tracker orc tells the big mean orc to fuck off with his criticism because it's his own fault for being slow and shit at his job, and furthermore he hopes the Witch King really is dead because he's a twat, and then shoots him in the eye and runs off when he tries to attack him, and let me tell you that guy has main event charisma
That guy is your billion dollar Amazon show right there
― hiroyoshi tins in (Sgt. Biscuits), Saturday, 1 May 2021 15:03 (three years ago) link
I'd be down with that.
Anyway, our new episode is up!
https://www.megaphonic.fm/bythebywater/26
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 4 May 2021 15:21 (three years ago) link
oh boy! just listened to the Denethor family showcase and working on the Ent one today. :) relevant to my above comments on legend/chronicle/lore: i like your observation that maybe Denethor's attachment to the traditions, politics and details of the office sort of marks him apart from the way others in the universe relate to the past. and so perhaps me reaching for more concrete, graspable history is a bit Denethor-ish, and not really encouraged by the text.
― Bobo Honk, real name, no gimmicks (Doctor Casino), Tuesday, 4 May 2021 15:39 (three years ago) link
Denethor is a civil service
The only other character we see attached to such a position is the guardsman showing ?pippin? around Gondor's barracks
― flagpost fucking (darraghmac), Tuesday, 4 May 2021 15:46 (three years ago) link
Denethor is also that most overplayed archetype, the cautious governance that has kept the place running in between would-be inspirational leaders actually getting it right as opposed to wrecking the fucking gaff
― flagpost fucking (darraghmac), Tuesday, 4 May 2021 15:47 (three years ago) link
― hiroyoshi tins in (Sgt. Biscuits)
Merry Sue nest pas
― flagpost fucking (darraghmac), Wednesday, 5 May 2021 01:59 (three years ago) link
Just listened to the latest episode of By-The-Bywater, on the scouring of the shire. Cracking ep, one of the best yet!
― "The Pus/Worm" by The Smiths (hardcore dilettante), Tuesday, 11 May 2021 13:40 (three years ago) link
Thanks kindly! We do our best.
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 11 May 2021 14:41 (three years ago) link
‘Mortal Kombat’ Star Accuses Amazon’s ‘Lord of the Rings’ of Lacking Asian Actorshttps://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/lord-of-the-rings-amazon-diversity-1234953348/
― dow, Saturday, 15 May 2021 18:23 (three years ago) link
The most recent of the Eruditorum posts makes me think that's probably a good thing...
― Andrew Farrell, Saturday, 15 May 2021 18:47 (three years ago) link
I finally watched the “Tolkien Edit” of the Hobbit movies, a fan edit that chops the trilogy down into one 4-1/2 hour movie. It’s decently watchable, if not actually anything like good. About on a par with most of the Marvel movies I’ve seen (which is not high praise). But if you take it as canon, at least it doesn’t taint & stain the original LOTR trilogy the way the theatrically released Hobbit movies did. Whoever put that together is kind of a hero.
― "The Pus/Worm" by The Smiths (hardcore dilettante), Saturday, 15 May 2021 18:49 (three years ago) link
area fan
― parenthetically yours, (Karl Malone), Saturday, 15 May 2021 18:55 (three years ago) link
There are a couple of those Hobbit edits floating around -- I have two, plus a separate one that's just the Dol Guldur arc. One of those edits did a pretty great job of reducing it down to three hours that followed as closely to the original text as allowed and basically did what I felt could have been done at the start, just tell the story in one film. From the moment they announced it as two films I had my doubts and we all knew what happened after that.
― Ned Raggett, Saturday, 15 May 2021 19:09 (three years ago) link
yeah, i’d prefer a single hobbit movie and a dedicated dol guldur movie
― scanner darkly, Saturday, 15 May 2021 21:10 (three years ago) link
.. but then if LoTR movies came out now in the MCU age we’d also get a dedicated Tom Bombadil movie, so..
― scanner darkly, Saturday, 15 May 2021 21:12 (three years ago) link
i want to see Lord of the Rings: Paradise, where they all get drunk on the beach and flirt in the pool
― parenthetically yours, (Karl Malone), Saturday, 15 May 2021 21:13 (three years ago) link
featuring tom bombadil, i mean
― parenthetically yours, (Karl Malone), Saturday, 15 May 2021 21:14 (three years ago) link
Tom Bombadil: Love and Thunder
― scanner darkly, Saturday, 15 May 2021 21:16 (three years ago) link
xxp pretty sure that’s all what’s going on in the Undying Lands, thus why they’re in such a hurry to go sail there at the end
― epistantophus, Saturday, 15 May 2021 21:36 (three years ago) link
The Lord of the Rings 2: The Scouring of the Shire Part 1
― hiroyoshi tins in (Sgt. Biscuits), Saturday, 15 May 2021 21:41 (three years ago) link
: Genesis
Directors final cut
― flagpost fucking (darraghmac), Saturday, 15 May 2021 22:15 (three years ago) link
The Two Towers 2: Electric Boogaloo
― Deicide at Chuck E. Cheese (PBKR), Saturday, 15 May 2021 23:53 (three years ago) link
by 2050, reflecting the continuing evolution of the IP and a need to make clear to younger fans why they should bother watching them, the original Jackson series will have been rebranded "The Scouring of the Shire: Origins"
― Bobo Honk, real name, no gimmicks (Doctor Casino), Sunday, 16 May 2021 00:03 (three years ago) link
Lord of the Rings: The Snyder Cut
― scanner darkly, Sunday, 16 May 2021 00:03 (three years ago) link
Its the ewok crossover will really tear it
― flagpost fucking (darraghmac), Sunday, 16 May 2021 00:11 (three years ago) link
The Gondolorian
― scanner darkly, Sunday, 16 May 2021 00:58 (three years ago) link
.. a series about Aragorn’s life as a Strider would probably rock actually
― scanner darkly, Sunday, 16 May 2021 01:00 (three years ago) link
a videogame as well
― parenthetically yours, (Karl Malone), Sunday, 16 May 2021 01:03 (three years ago) link
the thing that people don't yet know about aragorn/Strider is that he often travels via a chain that he throws diagonally up and forward, swinging across any obstacle like tarzan or harry pitfall over the alligators
― parenthetically yours, (Karl Malone), Sunday, 16 May 2021 01:04 (three years ago) link
Isn’t that Bionic Commando!?
― epistantophus, Sunday, 16 May 2021 02:08 (three years ago) link