Chapo Trap House and the rise of the dirtbag left

From what I gather, "post-left" is like the dirtbag leftists that refused to stop saying the r-word when everyone else did in 2016?

no. they are reactionaries, basically, who want to have economic leftism without any kind of social liberalism. often they are critical if not hostile to most left wing causes.

i feel like they are gadflies that orbit the left more than anything. my point was basically that someone like liz bruenig isn't really part of that group

which Left seemed to be implying. but maybe he wasn't.

also that 'anarcho-nazbol-trots' is one of the most absurd groupings possible

yeah that is what i was trying to say. these are different people .

Half of them aren't even people, just NSA honeypots.

lol

i thought post-left was some nihilist/egoist/primitivist thing, have the red scare people appropriated it, it doesn't suit them

of course i know these various tendencies hate each other i was making the point that you have partisans of conceivable left and quasi left tendency weighing in with variations of the same tune. the main group is clearly just liberal though sometimes with marxist pretensions

i may have spread my net too wide since this shit is not limited to whatever specific clique this was about but it's hard not to see it all as connected when they're all on the same anti-PC anti-radical left-IDW trip

Twitter makes it difficult to parse political subcultures/trends, no doubt.

also these ppl who supposedly want to centre labour issues instead of social issues (because you can separate those things apparently) also seem to think reproductive labour and emotional labour are fake things made up by liberal academics and that social reproduction just happens naturally somehow. matt bruenig literally said "the home" is "outside of labor relations" or some shit which speaks volumes about the limits of these ppl's politics xps

i'm well aware i'm all over the place here

xp maybe people should just do podcasts when they have something to say, i guess.

I’m pretty sure the post left is three people addicted to podcast drama and 4chan memes, I refuse to believe they have any engagement with the world beyond incessant posting.

yeah it's not post as in after it's post as in posting

best out of the current-ish crop of posting leftists

“Post-left” is a real thing, but I think it’s only like 10 people online. I think they get a shit ton of attention because so many leftists online seem insecure as fuck and keep trying to root out those who aren’t True Believers, those who are betrayers, and the mythic “red-brown alliance.”

I think this is why Liz Bruenig gets so much hate and ire, because she may or may not hold a bad idea in her inner heart of hearts that she has never espoused publicly or from her platform.

If Bruenig's anti-abortion view leads her to favor more safety net policies to support poor mothers rather than favoring restriction of access then people's objections to it are really more in the rooting out thought-crime realm. See folks in this thread calling it "indefensible."

Yeah, a lot of it seems like leftover pathology of powerlessness stuff, where you have a bunch of folks who survived in their subculture for so long they can’t switch it from just being a subculture.

It’s like hardcore punk kids freaking out about keeping the scene pure, not trying to build a mass movement to actually change things

"thought crime" fuck you

ha

basically the message is misogyny is ok as long as you support (reformist, imperialist, US-nationalist) socialism

remember when i brought up the russell brand thing a while back, it was because this is the same shit that keeps happening. the idea that certain people are just too important to be called out on their bullshit. it's SWP logic

these reactions are just standard right wing anti-PC bullshit

ok dude

this language is *routinely* used to defend rapists on the left

fuck you

Tangential to yesterday's discussion, one of the problems with twitter is that you are expected to have the entire history/feed of every twitter personality memorized and engrained. So often you see someone engage, typically in earnest, with a specific tweet and they subsequently get minorly dragged with, "how could you respond to this person abt your favorite movie, don't you know they tweeted something transphobic three years ago?". Which isn't to say that it's a bad thing that people keep receipts and remember awful things people tweet, but it can be exhausting having to know that you aren't just replying to a tweet, you are replying the whole "persona".

the better response to that would be "thank you for telling me" or "sorry i didn't know about that" not "oh yeah so where's the evidence" or "you wreckers are destroying our movement" or "woke thought police" or

asking for evidence is bad?

asking for evidence is bad?

fuck you

it's obvious if someone really wants to know or if they just want to dissemble

certain keys on your keyboard are getting a lot of use today

I didn't suggest a response? Just saying there is a lot of weight in interactions on twitter and sometimes it's just an earnest reply and not a wholehearted endorsement of everything a different person has ever tweeted. NB I'm not defending anyone specific in this thread, just something I've noticed about how fraught twitter interactions have become.

posting on ILX otoh

well this has become a pretty fraught thread tbh

this is how social media works it's how you respond to being informed about who you're interacting with

when i used twitter i was sometimes informed of shitty things said or done by people or orgs i'd retweeted or interacted with. i was not cancelled for having done that and i was grateful for the information

Never heard of 'post-left' but aren't NazBols leftists who think Tucker Carlson is based because he says negative things about corporations sometimes?

You are responding to things in my posts that I didn't say. I never said anyone was "cancelled", I never argued that it was a bad thing to get educated. I was simply saying that not every twitter user has an index of the tweeting history of everyone they may potentially interact with and maybe it's not the best look to automatically assume the worst possible intent behind every interaction.

But you are just looking to get aggro on everyone today, so I'm sorry I brought it up in the first place.

Never heard of 'post-left' but aren't NazBols leftists who think Tucker Carlson is based because he says negative things about corporations sometimes?

now-feudalism

neo-feudalism

Jimmy Dore has almost a million subscribers so there's more than a dozen! I feel their effect isn't insignificant, this is part of the nihilism thats designed to turn people away from AOC because she didn't do M4A yet

I mean tbh I’ve never listened to Jimmy Dore and I’m not sure what he stands for, but is he legitimately nazbol/ white nationalist?

There are a lot of the various kinds of asshole being discussed here (a lot in the sense they could sell out a MLB stadium) but they’re not doing anything. They aren’t even trying to do entryism to take over the (itself pretty irrelevant) DSA, much less unions or putting up primary candidates.

Liz B being anti-choice is “unacceptable” but she’s neither a politician nor an activist. She’s a token soft left NYT op-Ed writer. There’s no value in being mad at her for her shitty belief (not even plural!). As with Ezra Klein, you’ll never lose by completely ignoring Time op-ed writers (except for the guy who roasted Petey Butts).

I mean tbh I’ve never listened to Jimmy Dore and I’m not sure what he stands for, but is he legitimately nazbol/ white nationalist?

Him personally? More of a nihilist/narcissist than anything more strictly defined I think. But Greenwald, Dore, BJG, general Strasserite class reductionism. But none of this is an entryism of any kind, its more of a nihilst exitism (from broad progressivism)

you’ll never lose by completely ignoring Time op-ed writers

moved to The Atlantic as of today (lol)

Left's posting style not making any friends here per usual, but I disagree that we should shrug off anti-abortion rhetoric from someone with a decently prominent media profile who is perceived to be a voice of the left (however bullshit we all think that perception is). As I'm sure you all know, abortion rights & access are continually being eroded in the US, and the normalizing of "religious" objections to it is obvs a huge part of that. And personally, I have zero use for a non-feminist leftist opiner

she hasn't written any articles about being anti-abortion or posted about it on twitter iirc.