Israel to World: "Suck It."

could have fooled someone, maybe

very big of you though

Hey, if loving human life is a crime, then lock me up and throw away the key! Am I right???!

I don't really think the point is whether or not you condone civilian deaths, the point is at some point who cares what you think about civilian deaths? Ok, I condemn Hamas. What changes?

I have family (by marriage) who could hypothetically be hit by rockets, so I don't take this totally lightly. I have family who have had to go into bomb shelters from it. But at the same time, lets be honest, the rockets suck and the odds are pretty low, and in a week they'll be back out in nice cafes on the beach and Palestinians in Gaza will be picking through the rubble and attending funerals.

"and I won’t cross today if desperate palestinians kill jews."

Posting this when Israeli soldiers are attacking Palestinians the day after a ceasefire has been called.

in a week they'll be back out in nice cafes on the beach

if my instagram feed is anything to go by, they're already at the beach

This notion of sanctifying civilian lives within the context of warfare, it's something armies will give lip service to but afaict this has never actually happened during any conflict in world history.

I have family (by marriage) who could hypothetically be hit by rockets, so I don't take this totally lightly. I have family who have had to go into bomb shelters from it. But at the same time, lets be honest, the rockets suck and the odds are pretty low, and in a week they'll be back out in nice cafes on the beach and Palestinians in Gaza will be picking through the rubble and attending funerals.

― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, May 21, 2021 11:48 AM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Am I making the claim that it is otherwise?

I’m only ‘both-siding’ when condemning Hamas and the IDF.

I am not making the case that situation is as bad for Israeli citizens as it is Palestinian citizens.

If/when the rockets stop, the settlements will keep expanding, Israeli right wing gangs will keep harassing Arabs, Palestinian homes will keep getting demolished, Palestinians will keep getting unjustly imprisoned, checkpoints will remain in place in non-Hamas-controlled areas, and life for most Israelis will continue to be 100% fine. That's why I don't find it to be worth spending much breath on that point.

One of the things that needs to be mentioned, too, is that by creating the apartheid environment in which Palestinians live, Israel has *already made* the entire Palestinian populace into an enemy. For the IDF, there is no difference between Hamas and some guy going to work, or an esteemed writer and journalist, or a child.

To say that Hamas should focus their rockets on the IDF when the IDF kills Palestinians indiscriminately is ghastly and inhuman.

Also, the whole mandatory military service thing might have a side effect of helping your enemy see your entire populace as non-civilian.

It is less a side effect than an objective in my opinion.

To say that Hamas should focus their rockets on the IDF when the IDF kills Palestinians indiscriminately is ghastly and inhuman.

― heyy nineteen, that's john belushi (the table is the table), Friday, May 21, 2021 12:45 PM (thirty-three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

What would be inhuman would be to justify the death of people in any circumstances. If you feel good about people being killed that's between you and your conscience. I feel differently and if that makes me a 'both-siders' then so be it.

You really do refuse to engage with what anyone is saying here, don't you?

if being against murder is a crime, then lock me up

as was said above

amazing peter beinart book title:

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/issAAOSws5Bahiwd/s-l400.jpg

but he did have a full change of heart about a decade ago

Dunking on Peter Beinart seems really pointless and counterproductive rn

ouch

I'm generally suspicious of political apostates, but that piece voodoo chili linked was very good

these constant reminders of the evils of hamas *do* have the effect of justifying the deaths of people. this is exactly why they are such a prominent theme in I/P discourse - because they are useful for that purpose. it's not something you can just pick up for your own purposes w/o playing into that

so is this guy like a repentant liberal hawk or something. does he matter

I think he matters bc he has the ear of liberal American Jews and "liberal zionists" who might be persuadable on certain aspects of this

xp
actually I think I'm confusing him with someone else, so "apostate" might be hyperbolic

xps - You really do refuse to engage with what anyone is saying here, don't you?

He is engaging. But he is not falling into line. He persists in recognizing the same facts, but applying a different frame of reference. Deploring murder is easy and literally everyone on this thread agrees on that, including VHS. afaics, he's trying to take a step beyond that frame of reference. To those who are calling him ghastly and inhuman this looks like stepping away from deploring murder.

Emotionally, it's "too soon" to think beyond the ongoing horrific murder. The problem with "too soon" is that the raw wounds in Gaza never heal and are ripped open so often that it is always "too soon".

all this nuance feels a bit like well what about antifa violence

it's just a feeling. it will pass.

xp that's silly, come on. over 4,000 people died in the last intifada

And a further problem is that many people see the end of apartheid in South Africa as the victory of the struggles of the 1970s and 1980s, ignoring their continuation against the ANC, while people are arrested and murdered.https://t.co/6Q2icAk9th

— libcom.org (@libcomorg) May 21, 2021

Jewish lives matter.

So tell your terrorists buddies in Hamas to stop bombing them.#JihadSquad https://t.co/qyOiYQ1I69

— Marjorie Taylor Greene 🇺🇸 (@mtgreenee) May 17, 2021

Who does this remind you of?

"He is engaging. But he is not falling into line."

Oh what a hero, unlike us sheep.

I remember this poster making the very salient point that constitutional monarchies are fine because they have no damaging consequences on the important metrics like home ownership and where a country is on some Gates Foundation wealth index. Absolute fucking weapons grade hero is this lad!

Who does this remind you of?

FP who do you think you're enlightening with this bs

You

Blimey. That's a long check-list you have to tick off in order to be allowed to care about Gaza, according to Jonathan Freedland. pic.twitter.com/w7wEABy8bj

— David Timoney (@fromarsetoelbow) May 22, 2021

He did at least acknowledge Much of the explanation is that Israel/Palestine is simply more visible, with media coverage on a scale unmatched by any of those other catastrophes. but then a few paragraphs later It can’t be the fact that Israel is a favoured western ally; so is Saudi Arabia. which...well, that's just not the gotcha he seems to think.

“An Israeli pilot revealed that the destruction of residential towers in #Gaza Strip was "a way to vent the army's frustration"

in an interview w Israeli Channel (12) with pilots who participated in blowing up 9 residential towers in Gaza, inc one that housed media offices.

— Sarah Leah Whitson (@sarahleah1) May 22, 2021

I remember this poster making the very salient point that constitutional monarchies are fine because they have no damaging consequences on the important metrics like home ownership and where a country is on some Gates Foundation wealth index. Absolute fucking weapons grade hero is this lad!

― calzino, Saturday, May 22, 2021 5:45 AM (six hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

I was talking about the UN’s human development index...

thanks for clearing that up mate!

Oh what a hero, unlike us sheep.

What a strange construction to put on the simple observation that someone has a differing opinion. Binary much?

I just don’t see what is the link with home ownership or even Bill Gates, this is just hateful mockery.

just hateful mockery.

It's a go-to move for a lot of people on social media. And off.

Also called "being a dickhead"

the Penetrating Eye has logged on!

the Penetrating Eye has logged on!

― calzino, Saturday, May 22, 2021 12:33 PM (thirty-two seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink

What are you contributing to this? What is the point? I might have my disagreements with some people on this thread but at least they are being respectful (except alphabet) and engaging with the discussion.

What a strange construction to put on the simple observation that someone has a differing opinion. Binary much?

The exact phrase you used was 'not falling into line', which suggests people who are disagreeing with him are 'falling in line'. So not such a strange construction perhaps?

What are you contributing to this? What is the point? I might have my disagreements with some people on this thread but at least they are being respectful (except alphabet) and engaging with the discussion.

― Van Horn Street, Saturday, May 22, 2021 5:37 PM (thirteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

you don't deserve any respect! you're such an entitled prick lol.

This is such a terrible episode.

My statement on my termination from The Associated Press. pic.twitter.com/kf4NCkDJXx

— emily wilder (@vv1lder) May 22, 2021

No tolerance for anyone who posts about fucking infrastructure more than human lives.

Aimless and VHS - you seem to come as a pair - it’s hardly surprising that you’re getting such a consistently negative reaction on this thread. You’re not bringing much beyond platitudes and blame apportionment. Read the room! Try sharing a link, an original idea, a personal story?