Zeynep Tufekci wrote a piece in the New York Times questioning the existing consensus and pointing out the obvious: of course masks work
this was the article I read last year that made me consider buying one for the first time.
― Feta Van Cheese (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 25 May 2021 21:33 (three years ago) link
and then suddenly, patriots across the country all felt a similar thought - "i betcha they don't!"
― Karl Malone, Tuesday, 25 May 2021 21:37 (three years ago) link
still feel like we missed a golden opportunity there to gather up all the most respected high-profile doctors and left wing politicians on one big stage to state emphatically that rat poison is bad, rat poison will kill you, do not under any circumstances ingest rat poison, please for the sake of everyone who loves you never ever ever take rat poison.
― cat, Wednesday, 26 May 2021 00:23 (three years ago) link
i am kind of an asshole.
fwiw i literally take rat poison (warfarin) to keep me alive, so
― Clay, Wednesday, 26 May 2021 00:44 (three years ago) link
that is an awesome flex, something to casually mention anytime you're conversing with a rodent
― cat, Wednesday, 26 May 2021 00:48 (three years ago) link
FWIW, I definitely think masks work, but I don't think cloth masks on kids does much of anything and I think it's time to end that.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Wednesday, 26 May 2021 01:09 (three years ago) link
E.g. here:https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.19.21257467v1
No correlation between COVID spread and school mask mandates
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Wednesday, 26 May 2021 01:10 (three years ago) link
And just as it makes sense to me that masks work (when of proper material and properly fitted), it completely makes sense to me why they don't make much difference with respect to kids who (1) have trouble wearing them properly, as I have observed, and (2) don't spread COVID as efficiently anyway.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Wednesday, 26 May 2021 01:11 (three years ago) link
Just because your own kids got covid doesn’t mean everyone else’s have to too
― Clara Lemlich stan account (silby), Wednesday, 26 May 2021 01:14 (three years ago) link
Maybe that didn't post. I'll post it again.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.19.21257467v1
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, May 25, 2021 8:10 PM (twenty-four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Wednesday, 26 May 2021 01:35 (three years ago) link
I mean honestly if you are terrified of your kids getting COVID, keep them home, but flimsy cloth masks with huge gaps around the nose aren't going to stop it.
while we're at it, maybe we can get rid of other superstitious practices too, like "deep cleaning" and quarantining library books
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Wednesday, 26 May 2021 01:39 (three years ago) link
Yeah those are definitely both the same as wearing masks
― Clara Lemlich stan account (silby), Wednesday, 26 May 2021 01:41 (three years ago) link
im in favour of not eliminating deep cleaning
― plax (ico), Wednesday, 26 May 2021 06:39 (three years ago) link
^^^^^^^
fuck deep cleaning
― Karl Malone, Wednesday, 26 May 2021 09:17 (three years ago) link
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Wednesday, 26 May 2021 bookmarkflaglink
Lol ok you do you. Some kids will find masks harder but we are mostly talking about what the advice was for adults.
Having said that the main takeaway from that piece is how governments and scientists often treat people like children in the lack of trust placed in people to wear masks properly and wash them regularly. Also some racism in thinking countries from the East don't know what they are doing but that's more par for the course.
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 26 May 2021 09:35 (three years ago) link
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Wednesday, May 26, 2021 2:39 AM (ten hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
The virus spreads via the air, not surfaces. But continue with your strawman argument it's illuminating
― a (waterface), Wednesday, 26 May 2021 12:04 (three years ago) link
i think man alive was being serious there!
― Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 26 May 2021 12:11 (three years ago) link
i.e. you agree
― Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 26 May 2021 12:12 (three years ago) link
but go ahead with your sarcastic disdain, it’s the lingua franca around here!
― Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 26 May 2021 12:13 (three years ago) link
kids wearing masks made out of cold cuts do not work either.
― Yerac, Wednesday, 26 May 2021 12:28 (three years ago) link
it's so hard to tell tone on this place anymore--i def think masks work on kids
― a (waterface), Wednesday, 26 May 2021 12:51 (three years ago) link
but i really don't want to get into it--if you don't see that masks are part of the solution, i can't really help you!
― a (waterface), Wednesday, 26 May 2021 12:52 (three years ago) link
every mask made of poorly fitting slices helps™️
― Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 26 May 2021 13:00 (three years ago) link
to be clear, I was pro face masks in high density public places (maybe not in water parks) before we were 1.5 years into a global pandemic.
― Yerac, Wednesday, 26 May 2021 13:02 (three years ago) link
I've been to my partner's school and kids are pretty responsible about masking. They have to be nudged, yes, because they're children. But by and large they're not assholes about it, except the ones that are, because - children. Maybe it's the school teachers being dismissive or laissez-faire that's the problem, not the kids.
― Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 26 May 2021 13:02 (three years ago) link
this was my understanding:
Surfaces - virus mainly spreads by air but the virus can still survive for short periods (day or two?) on surfaces so always best to wipe and be safeMasks - usage is to prevent the wearer from spreading the virus, and not the other way around.
(I might have misunderstood what yall debating right now, so sorry in advance)
― Diggin Holes (Ste), Wednesday, 26 May 2021 13:03 (three years ago) link
the children will generally do as they're told about the masks, except for the ones with behavioral issues. by and large they're fine with following the rules. it's the adults that are the problem.
― Nhex, Wednesday, 26 May 2021 13:06 (three years ago) link
I think the wearing of masks is one of the things that more than a few ppl will carry on with if and when this is finally over.
Especially if it reduces the risk of flu and allergic reactions.
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 26 May 2021 13:07 (three years ago) link
Or if you wanted to never show your face to people/troll. That is going to be my reason.
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 26 May 2021 13:09 (three years ago) link
yeah I'm kinda happy i don't need to worry about my forever recurring chin zit at the moment.
― Diggin Holes (Ste), Wednesday, 26 May 2021 13:18 (three years ago) link
Masks - usage is to prevent the wearer from spreading the virus, and not the other way around.
actually, we've gotten evidence about masks protecting the user after all: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/11/11/933903848/wear-masks-to-protect-yourself-from-the-coronavirus-not-only-others-cdc-stresses
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 26 May 2021 13:20 (three years ago) link
I was supposed to see a friend this summer so we could introduce our kids to each other, but it slowly became clear that he was not and had no intention of getting vaccinated. He even brought up the whole HIPAA thing.
― Heez, Wednesday, 26 May 2021 13:33 (three years ago) link
Surfaces - virus mainly spreads by air but the virus can still survive for short periods (day or two?) on surfaces so always best to wipe and be safe
in perfect lab conditions yes, but I think in reality the virus doesn't survive more than a couple minutes on a given surface? I remember reading that surface transmission was incredibly rare
― frogbs, Wednesday, 26 May 2021 13:40 (three years ago) link
lol people think HIPAA just means "i can't tell you about my medical history", not that it's an act that prevents providers from broadly sharing someone's medical history to people who aren't authorized to obtain it.
― Feta Van Cheese (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 26 May 2021 13:41 (three years ago) link
Elementary school-aged kids do generally listen about the masks, they just tend not to wear them well or be conscientious about them slipping off, so without non-stop reminders they become ineffective. Middle and high school kids are much less likely to listen at all. This is from my experience around elementary school aged kids plus my wife's experience teaching.
I also think it's silly to make kids wear them outside since there is zero evidence of children spreading COVID outside.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Wednesday, 26 May 2021 13:42 (three years ago) link
there's nothing wrong with being clean, my issue are many companies will brag about their next level cleaning process while doing none of the other CDC recommended measures like distancing people, limiting capacity, requiring masks, etc.
― Feta Van Cheese (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 26 May 2021 13:43 (three years ago) link
it was a move companies used to use to try and silence complaints:
"guys, we're safe - we bring in the SANITIZER5000 and it zaps all germs/viruses/bacteria! also btw everybody sits in this restaurant naked and we don't require masks cos we think it's unnecessary"
― Feta Van Cheese (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 26 May 2021 13:45 (three years ago) link
https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/05/26/1025361/us-promoting-vaccine-tourism-new-york/
― rob, Wednesday, 26 May 2021 14:15 (three years ago) link
data point: I have an intellectually disabled kid with severe behavioral issues, and he's a more consistent mask advocate than anyone I know. His world is chaos so he loves routine.
We're in the car together on the way to school.
DAD - MAS ON!
Mind you, we live together, so we've been breathing shared air for ten years, including the last year and a half. My wife and I are fully vaccinated and our 13-year-old is half vaccinated.
Dude, I will put my mask on when we get there, but right now we're in the car.
Okay, okay, here. See? I have mask on.
― balsamic panic (Ye Mad Puffin), Wednesday, 26 May 2021 15:07 (three years ago) link
fuck it mask off
― the mai tai quinn (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 26 May 2021 15:12 (three years ago) link
yeah i don't really buy the idea that kids/teens wont wear masks. . . i bet its the parents that are the problem
― a (waterface), Wednesday, 26 May 2021 15:48 (three years ago) link
at this point I’m genuinely concerned about all the surface cleaning, both in terms of creating the evolutionary pressure for superbugs and of my own immune regulation. I’m not anti-hygiene, I wash my hands (with non-antibacterial soap!) regularly and do plenty of other things to be conscientious towards others, but sterilizing every damn public surface umpteen times a day just does not seem healthy on the population level, especially after it’s been proven many times over that it has no effect on the pandemic. Most immune systems get a net benefit from sub-infectious exposure to ambient bacteria!
― nicole, Wednesday, 26 May 2021 15:49 (three years ago) link
― a (waterface), Wednesday, May 26, 2021 8:48 AM (thirteen minutes ago)
🤐
― Clara Lemlich stan account (silby), Wednesday, 26 May 2021 16:01 (three years ago) link
sterilizing every damn public surface umpteen times a day
I just... are we actually doing this? I don't think my kids' school is but they're distancing and they bought expensive new air filters
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Wednesday, 26 May 2021 16:03 (three years ago) link
a lot of places are still practicing sterilization theater... hotels for instance
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Wednesday, 26 May 2021 16:06 (three years ago) link
actually that's just anecdotal don't listen to me lol
ok more concrete example: the new york subway
I had to serve on jury duty Monday and they are def practicing hyper sterilization in the courtrooms and waiting areas, though also doing a reasonably good job of distancing and separation.
― soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 26 May 2021 16:08 (three years ago) link