Is virtue signaling an actual thing that people are capable of doing

xxpost "virtue signaling" as a dis can mean a lot of things, but i always took it to mean "all you're doing is presenting the good things you do and believe as a way of amplifying yourself as an example of a good and wholesome person, and not amplifying the people and things you are fighting for".

signaling virtue

the well has been poisoned by the number of right-wing assholes who are using it to mean "LOL, you are a GOOD PERSON, you NERD", but the sentiment at the core of the purest interpretation of VS is a real phenomenon

Right-wingers aren't guilty of virtue signaling so much as "asshole signaling"

https://www.facebook.com/virtuesignalling/

Yeah those signs seems to increase in number the swankier and whiter an urban neighborhood is.

May be true as a rule, but my racially diverse low-income neighborhood has quite a few, in front of modest rental houses. I associate it more with, like, people who ride their bike to work at the co-op. But really, I'm perfectly happy to see those signs, better than a lot of other things people could put in their yards.

Which is to say, sometimes even the signal of virtue is a welcome thing.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1958/6501/products/jesus_fish_car_main_300x300.png?v=1571451841

Given the insane number of monsters who proudly piss all over the stated virtues, I'm not going to give too much guff to the sign-bearers looking to boost those particular signals. Yeah, they're probably varying levels of flawed with respect to follow-through but who isn't.

i hung up a "IMPEACH THE RACIST PRESIDENT AGAIN!!" sign in my window for a few days last year to let my neighborhood know where i stood. felt very important to let everyone know what i thought about it

"asshole signaling"

As in flying the Confederate flag, Gadsen flag ("Don't tread on me"), or Thin Blue Line flag.

Everyone hates sanctimonious hypocrites. Always have. That is all “virtue signaling” means.

The term is polluted because the right wing often criticize the left for being sanctimonious hypocrites. They get away with this because it is sometimes true.

Admitting this, however, does nothing to bolster the general right wing cause. To the contrary, right wingers, in America especially, are on the wrong side of every issue. There is nothing I hate more than the Republican party, the hypocrisy of which runs much deeper than the Democrats, to say nothing of their malice.

Because it is a right wing meme, I advise against using the term “virtue signaling.” But I recommend calling out sanctimony and hypocrisy on the left because it very often is coming from a bad place too—just not a place that is as bad as where the right is coming from. And take two advils with a glass of water before bed.

Well, unless you have more information than the yard sign, you are kinda jumping to the conclusion that ALL they're doing to foster justice is putting up the sign.

Otm. I don't think it's fair to assume "these are the same people who are all NIMBY about everything". Some are I'm sure. But there's a less chance its the ppl in that house than the others in the neighborhood.

It’s still an annoying sign.

It’s a call for racial justice written in the same tone as a t-shirt that says “it’s wine o’clock somewhere.” It’s undignified, not really commensurate with the seriousness of the issue, and it does come across as self-congratulatory.

Some say no to drugs and take a stand
But after the show they go looking for the dopeman

It sometimes creates a Sneetches effect where people assume bad things about neighbors who don't have the sign.

i wouldn't assume they are all NIMBY about everything but i do assume they are simpletons

The term is polluted because the right wing often criticize the left for being sanctimonious hypocrites.

Also the thing where the right pretty much consistently embraces criticism of traits that they themselves embody more hardcore than literally anyone on earth (e.g. the people who cry about having to drape a piece of cloth across their faces calling other people 'snowflakes').

Sure

yeah, in the context it came up last night it was just the typical "i'm neutral man and the rest of you don't have any actual beliefs," while you are posturing as neutral man on a message board, which is itself signaling something, though not a virtue that's for sure

"It’s still an annoying sign"

Agreed, and I think that's why there's an impulse to paint the homeowner as a hypocrite.

Putting all those statements into the frame of "In this house we believe..." is the self-congratulatory kicker. It's not all about your household, sugar. The commercialization of the sign as a mass-produced commodity means that the framing phrase comes with your purchase and that bit of self-congratulation becomes inseparable from the rest of the statements.

https://✧✧✧.bt✧✧✧.com/10222/10222388/products/0x2✧✧✧@1625904682c27d90c✧✧✧.j✧✧

Oops, that didn't work. Let's try again.

https://i.etsystatic.com/23968014/r/il/968273/3189342342/il_1588xN.3189342342_b716.jpg

I have a giant blow up photo pasted on cardboard of my cat staring wide eyed in the window of my condo. Those are the values in my home.

ok is a pride flag virtue signaling?

ofc not. pride is one of the seven deadly sins.

is it on a house or like the pride festival sponsored by lockheed martin

xxpost Yeah, I think we're kinda getting in the weeds here and conflating what we find personally distasteful with disingenuousness.

it’s called bragging?

these signs are like "live, laugh, love" signs in the home. live, laugh, liberal

I voted!

it definitely depends on the context. I've watched my neighborhood go from nice but affordable to totally unattainable. There's been virtually no new construction anywhere nearby during that time. The people with these signs in their yards here are not riding their bikes to the co-op, no one is riding bikes anywhere. They are all just a bunch of rich assholes regardless of their politics.

The pride flag expresses solidarity with the LGBTQ+ community. It is the noble banner of an ongoing civil rights struggle.

The “in this household” sign expresses sneering contempt for hypothetical conservatives who might read the sign but probably won’t because these signs only appear in deep blue suburbs.

Thinking of those signs springing up around the time of the 2017 Muslim Ban, it at least signals to neighbors that they aren't on the side of Trump. In the same way that American flags in fall 2020 felt like a substitute for Trump signs in the fancy neighborhoods I walked through during the lockdown.

trump signs signal contempt for people with the "in our household signs," which signal contempt for people with trump signs. it's just a loop of performative politics--or of people mistaking their political positions with their personalities.

i don't think these signs effectively signaled solitary with people at-risk of trump's policies if only because they fueled more trump signs and trump flags.

the trump flags are the ones i hate the most. why does he have his own flag?

Pride flags def used to bother me a lot, in certain contexts. I'd see a pride flag in some instances as a reminder that I should expect to be persecuted, that I needed a special invitation in order to feel welcome, and that the bearer was congratulating themself for extending to me that special invitation. I think I feel differently about it now, that seems like an ignorant way to have thought about it.

no that makes sense and is a good point

The "In This House" sign is from Madison, WI, which is indeed deep blue but is not a suburb

https://mashable.com/article/in-this-house-we-believe-black-lives-matter-kindness-is-everything-sign

everything between the hudson and mississippi is an outer suburb of new york to me.

what did i just signal with that quip?

why does he have his own flag?

it's a merchandising opportunity

xxpost new borad descript

I guess the gen x-er in me just finds any sort of "message" or political sign/flag around one's home to be like soooo lame man.

I don't want to be misconstrued as caping for these signs that are ugly as fuck and stupid, but one of the most reliable tropes about ilx is watching people make absolutely asinine assumptions about people's interior lives and thoughts based on a sample size of a grand total of one outdoor yard sign.

It's the equivalent of the dipshits that hear you reference one band, one time and spend the entire rest of their social interactions with you assuming you are said band's global #1 fan. Jesus, grant people a little more depth of thought for once in your lives.

Ugh. I already regret venting my frustration here, but that simple minded shit drives me nuts.

Notice that it's always negative assumptions that are made. I do it too (tho I'd like to think I scold myself upon reflection), it's like it's hardwired into the human mind.

Reading the "preferred pronouns" discussion upthread, this is something I'm thinking about a lot as I'm teaching French to middle schoolers, quite a few of whom use nonbinary pronouns. My classes usually involve a lot of talking to and about each other - like, ask each other these questions and then report on what you found out! So I'm now trying to figure out the best way to bring French nonbinary pronouns (which are still very new and not officially recognized but do exist) into the classroom, and also the best way to make sure we all state our pronouns when we're doing an activity like that so the nonbinary kids don't have to deal with being misgendered all the time. But every time I talk about nonbinary pronouns - and you do kind of have to talk about it because gender-neutral language in French is way harder than it is in English - I feel like I'm probably making those kids feel uncomfortable. I wish there were a better way but I don't think there is.

I have an enby kid in high school; they asked their Spanish teacher about how to do nonbinary pronouns.

The teacher wasn't a jerk about it - she understood the question and took it seriously. But ultimately all she could do was shrug and point back to the textbook.

Like when I learned French one would say la porte but le stylo, and if you didn't yet know what you were referring to, it would end up as il / ils because masculine is generic.

yeah, I may be putting more emphasis on it than I need to, but my feeling is who cares if it's not textbook French yet, people who want to use it are using it, and we're not actually in France, we're in a school where a bunch of kids use nonbinary pronouns and are used to getting a fair amount of support for that from the school. So it would feel very weird and wrong to me to go "sorry, you can have nonbinary pronouns everywhere but in French class, plz choose a gender now," especially when there are plenty of French-speakers out there who are pushing for more gender-neutral language.

But it is extra complicated. The pronouns themselves are easy - iel and ielle are the main ones - but you also have to say what adjective agreements you're using, and those have to be either masculine or feminine. Which is annoying, and adds a step, but it's not as much of a deal-breaker as it sounds like. For one thing, as you said, masculine is generic. And for another, when even inanimate objects like the table and the door have gendered adjective endings, gender agreement isn't quite as imbued with the idea of personal identity as an English-speaker might assume. Or at least that's how I understand it.