Is virtue signaling an actual thing that people are capable of doing

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incredibly relatable

Left, Friday, 3 September 2021 21:58 (two years ago) link

"Virtue signaling" is much like calling the Democratic Party the "Democrat" party. Wingnuts do this thinking that their ability to call the left names constitutes proof that they're smarter than 'em.

Sassy Boutonnière (ledriver), Saturday, 4 September 2021 04:36 (two years ago) link

two weeks pass...

when your lawn sign comes with caveats

They covered up “no human is illegal” pic.twitter.com/LKtKEoIFOE

— fourth and 5.5 inches (@moleburps) September 19, 2021

Mr. Cacciatore (Moodles), Monday, 20 September 2021 01:37 (two years ago) link

Reading the "preferred pronouns" discussion upthread, this is something I'm thinking about a lot as I'm teaching French to middle schoolers, quite a few of whom use nonbinary pronouns. My classes usually involve a lot of talking to and about each other - like, ask each other these questions and then report on what you found out! So I'm now trying to figure out the best way to bring French nonbinary pronouns (which are still very new and not officially recognized but do exist) into the classroom, and also the best way to make sure we all state our pronouns when we're doing an activity like that so the nonbinary kids don't have to deal with being misgendered all the time. But every time I talk about nonbinary pronouns - and you do kind of have to talk about it because gender-neutral language in French is way harder than it is in English - I feel like I'm probably making those kids feel uncomfortable. I wish there were a better way but I don't think there is.

Lily Dale, Monday, 20 September 2021 02:03 (two years ago) link

I have an enby kid in high school; they asked their Spanish teacher about how to do nonbinary pronouns.

The teacher wasn't a jerk about it - she understood the question and took it seriously. But ultimately all she could do was shrug and point back to the textbook.

Like when I learned French one would say la porte but le stylo, and if you didn't yet know what you were referring to, it would end up as il / ils because masculine is generic.

Richard Marxist (Ye Mad Puffin), Monday, 20 September 2021 04:42 (two years ago) link

yeah, I may be putting more emphasis on it than I need to, but my feeling is who cares if it's not textbook French yet, people who want to use it are using it, and we're not actually in France, we're in a school where a bunch of kids use nonbinary pronouns and are used to getting a fair amount of support for that from the school. So it would feel very weird and wrong to me to go "sorry, you can have nonbinary pronouns everywhere but in French class, plz choose a gender now," especially when there are plenty of French-speakers out there who are pushing for more gender-neutral language.

But it is extra complicated. The pronouns themselves are easy - iel and ielle are the main ones - but you also have to say what adjective agreements you're using, and those have to be either masculine or feminine. Which is annoying, and adds a step, but it's not as much of a deal-breaker as it sounds like. For one thing, as you said, masculine is generic. And for another, when even inanimate objects like the table and the door have gendered adjective endings, gender agreement isn't quite as imbued with the idea of personal identity as an English-speaker might assume. Or at least that's how I understand it.

Lily Dale, Monday, 20 September 2021 05:08 (two years ago) link


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