Is ADHD a real disorder?

I was just coming back to apologise for “well actually”ing the thread but your experience is such a good example of where that mindset leads. It’s as if ADHD was like diabetes and just needed a simple chemical fix, keep the prescriptions up and anything else is the patient’s fault. But the”opening a crack” thing seems much closer to the truth of it. A psychiatrist I once worked with, told me that quite a few in his profession have a couple of go-to drugs which they give to people in the hope of opening a dialogue, rather than “curing” their illness.

i don't think that was a well actually! pretty consistent with my experience tbh. i enjoy my moderate dose of adderall but it doesn't make me behave the way i "should." if it kicks in while i'm wasting time it just makes me better at wasting time.

just to note that in referring to the "undisturbed" brain above, I didn't consider that it could be read that people who have ADHD are "disturbed" by contrast, that's not what I intended. All I meant was that we don't know how these systems work in brains which aren't being affected by medication, thus claiming we know how these medications achieve their effects is dishonest.

I made an appointment! It is for the end of November. thanking harbl for that post, which rattled around in my head for a week or so before I picked up the phone and called.

― peace, man, Monday, October 25, 2021 9:42 AM (three months ago) bookmarkflaglink

Just wanted to note that I've been on medication since Nov 29th. Started on Strattera. I struggled to find the right dose on that because it effected my sleep in a really negative way (I have pre-existing sleep issues, but this added a few really unpleasant twists). Just last week my psychiatrist switched me to Wellbutrin, which also has sleep side-effects, but not nearly as bad as the Strattera. The problem with both of these medications is that they are supposed to take over a month to actually have any effect on ADHD symptoms. In addition, lack of sleep is one of the key factors in whether I'm going to have a difficult day with ADHD symptoms, so I'm not sure if the Strattera ended up having any effect at all! I don't have the best impression of my psychiatrist or his front office staff so far, but I'm sticking with him because of the difficulty of trying to look for a new one.

I'm also seeing a psychologist in conjunction. We've only met 5 or 6 times so I can't really judge her too much. She has given me some advice on changing my daily habits. I've been working on putting this advice into practice, but I think it's still too early to know how helpful it is, especially while struggling to adapt to the medications.

Anyway, it's taken me years of procrastination and waffling to get to the point of even seeking treatment, so I'm happy about that and pretty committed to sticking with it even if things don't seem to be working all that great in the short term.

Then I get put on antidepressants & my CBT 101 therapist says "poor concentration is a symptom of depression" - yeah, but I'm nearly this bad even when my mood is fine? No answers yet except "try harder", and I just... can't, but why?

Meanwhile the pills take away the anxiety that feels like it stops me working but I still don't do the work. Maybe I do even less without panicking myself into it occasionally.

Is this ADHD? What does ADHD distraction/task avoidance feel like? Is it brain-itchy? Is it anxious (and what kind of anxiety, i.e. task guilt vs social re coworkers vs unrelated, or any/all of the above)? How do you tell if ADHD causes the anxiety or if it's all anxiety all the way down?

as someone who has anxiety and depression but not ADHD (I mostly lurk on this thread because several of my closest friends have ADHD and I kinda want to be able to more understanding and supportive), this doesn't resemble my experience. It sounds more like an ADHD experience. I take meds to improve distractibility because I tend to be very good at concentrating ... on things that make me miserable.

I'm married to someone who clearly suffers from anxiety but has no resulting signs of ADHD. The anxiety can be paralyzing, but it doesn't lead to the kind of constantly disrupted focus I have experienced.

Yeah, your spouse's anxiety is more like my experience as an anxiety/no-ADHD person.

one of my friends with ADHD has a framed drawing on his wall that says "FINISH WHAT YOU" ... this is my impression of an ADHD trait

https://franklycurious.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/CollegeOfArchitectureAndPlanning.jpg

exceptionally LOL based on what my friend does for a job

Chiming in to agree with sarahell, APC (here on my husband’s behalf). Also, my understanding is that adhd presents quite differently in women and misdiagnosis is very common. Maybe find an adhd test online that you can fill out and take to your dr and say “hey these are my concerns”?

I think trying to identify ADHD can be a little like trying to identify climate change. Hey, there's a really bad hurricane, did climate change cause that or do hurricanes like that just come about every so often? The answer is yes and the answer is no. You can't point to one hurricane and say "that's climate change." There have long been really bad hurricanes. But climate changes is intensifying the conditions that create really bad hurricanes and is likely increasing their frequency. Similarly, we are all complex human beings with a lot going on in our brains and emotional lives and a lot of societal and environmental factors influencing us. We are all capable of anxiety, we are all capable of distraction, we are all capable of being more distractable as a result of anxiety. But the oceans are a lot warmer in ADHD people.

i feel like there is a greater tendency to suffer from feelings of low self-worth related to professional and/or academic accomplishment in ADHD people than non-ADHD people with anxiety/depression, where the feelings of low self-worth are more likely to be related to other areas of life. This is just my personal observation from folks I know and ilxors' posts I recall.

OTM. I sometimes can't even believe how differently I feel about my own competence now vs before meds. Obviously some of that is also age and experience, but I don't think the old me could believe he would become the current me. I still find myself reading my own bio/resume sometimes because it feels weird that it's me.

Just the fact that I manage my kids' extremely complex breakfast and lunch preparation every morning, get them to the bus without fail, get the dishes done, remember when all their activities are, and virtually never forget to take out the trash or recycling feels huge, for that matter.

hmm

https://techcrunch.com/2022/01/17/inflow-a-science-based-app-for-adhd-raises-2-3m-seed-led-by-hoxton-ventures/

meds definitely open the door for the needed dialogue with your brain

it's strange, i am currently set to do some biofeedback sessions. the night before last i dreamt i was undergoing a session, and the following day was profoundly different in terms of my ability to listen to my intuition, not force myself to do what i imagined i was 'supposed' to do (or what a 'normal' person would do), avoid procrastination, etc etc. like all the barriers my brain was conditioned to set for myself were suddenly not an issue. obv the dream itself probably wasn't the reason, it's the months of conditioning i've been able to undergo thanks to the meds. and this makes me even more excited for the biofeedback sessions proper, which anecdotally can apparently be life changing

what i'm saying is even if you have a 7k deductible on a meager income it is still probably worth it to finally take care of yourself! and then once you hit that deductible go absolutely hog wild on taking care of yourself

i mean if i could get an appointment with a psychiatrist...

Do you guys have the thing where you get really obsessed with something and you HAVE TO talk and thing about it nonstop, and it's thrilling but also alarming bc you literally can't switch your brain off it, and then, little by little, it starts to bring you declining returns of interest and joy until one day it is GONE and you are free but also bereft?

think, not thing

Yes

I can't exactly say I hate it because I owe a lot of interests to it, but it's very weird to be jerked around like that by your brain. I'm no longer obsessed with Bruce Springsteen, and it feels very weird to say that because being obsessed with Bruce is what brought me to ILX and has kind of been my defining thing here.

And of course you never know what your next obsession is going to be, and it could be something you really don't want.

I spent an entire year able to listen to, and talk about, almost nothing but Elvis Costello. It’s nothing short of a miracle that I’m still married.

I have been deeply, deeply obsessed with bluegrass music since July 2021, both listening to and learning to play. The only three COVID era concerts I’ve seen have been bluegrass and one of them was a concert I hosted at my house. I really hope I don’t just suddenly burn out on it because it has brought me a lot of new musical life but I fear that may happen and my family has joked that it will.

I never thought of this as an ADHD thing but now it makes sense.

Do you guys have the thing...

yes

I never thought of this as an ADHD thing but now it makes sense.

i've prob thought of this as more of an Asperger's thing but idk. I don't have ADHD.

And of course you never know what your next obsession is going to be, and it could be something you really don't want.

That's exciting! A few of my past obsessions started as more cursory interests that i never imagined I could become obsessed with.

fwiw i haven't been obsessed with anything this way in at least a few years (personal record?) and don't know that i'm any better off, really. nowadays when people ask what i'm up to i have no idea what to tell them. i'm always "drawing a blank" lately when catching up with friends.
it was always a little embarrassing to talk nonstop about something nobody else really cares as much about and not be able to help myself... but i'm kinda the most boring person in the world now.

Last year, I became obsessed with insects. I took pictures of every insect I could on my daily walks and uploaded them to iNaturalist to find the species. Of course, insect sightings taper off in October around here. I've read a couple books about them, but probably didn't pursue my enthusiasm as much as I could have during the winter months. I am hoping that my interest in them picks up again when they start reemerging in a couple months. I would be sad if it didn't.

I went through kind of a Grateful Dead obsession a couple years ago (although not as big as my bluegrass obsession) after previously not liking them much. I even was in an informal Dead cover band for a bit. It’s weird because now I feel zero urge to listen to the Dead. This was made worse when I recently went to a Billy Strings concert, which reminded me why I used to hate deadheads.

That's what I'm afraid of with Springsteen. That, and losing something that made me take a more active interest in music in general. I always felt very ignorant about music, and being obsessed with Springsteen was an entryway into learning about a lot of things that had previously been huge mysteries to me. I hope that part of it doesn't go away.

fwiw i haven't been obsessed with anything this way in at least a few years (personal record?) and don't know that i'm any better off, really. nowadays when people ask what i'm up to i have no idea what to tell them. i'm always "drawing a blank" lately when catching up with friends.
it was always a little embarrassing to talk nonstop about something nobody else really cares as much about and not be able to help myself... but i'm kinda the most boring person in the world now.

― The 25 Best Songs Ever Ranked In Order (Deflatormouse), Friday, February 11, 2022 12:11 AM (nine hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

This happens to me too fwiw. I go through phases where I'm not into *anything*, and I feel almost like an animatronic president from the hall of presidents who just sat back down in the darkness after giving a speech and is now back to being a lifeless heap of latex-coated metal.

My problem is even when I'm really into something, it can be nearly impossible for me to go on at length about it. I read a fair amount and I can form general impressions from what I read, but when I try to remember specific details in the heat of conversation, I end up drawing a blank. I might be able to recall a couple cool facts or something, but when pressed for more, it's over. This is something that's troubled my all my life and is one of the things I'm trying to get my therapist to help me with.

Do you guys have the thing where you get really obsessed with something and you HAVE TO talk and thing about it nonstop, and it's thrilling but also alarming bc you literally can't switch your brain off it, and then, little by little, it starts to bring you declining returns of interest and joy until one day it is GONE and you are free but also bereft?

― Lily Dale, Thursday, February 10, 2022 7:28 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

absolutely, but sometimes it becomes a hyperfixation on buying something. one time in an instant my brain decided i ABSOLUTELY HAD TO acquire a PS4 just to play red dead redemption 2 to the detriment of my relationship, finances, responsibilities, etc. dropped everything to devote 5-6 hours on almost manic behavior- hastily formed and botched craiglist deals, desperate spars with ATMs, attempts to raise my credit limit, speeding to an empty gamestop five minutes before they close, waiting hours for a patch to install on shitty internet, starting RDR2 tutorial at 4am and sleeping until noon. it was like i was watching myself do all this shit.

i can avoid things just as severely. it's stressful!

and yea, when i 'get into' things i really get into them, fahey, the dead, etc, likely to the annoyance of others around me. while those obsessions have been rewarding in some ways (basically got decent at guitar because of fahey), when i lose the strong affinity for said obsessions, i find myself not listening to ANY music, which i don't care for

slightly embarrassing but i am currently seeing a 'life coach', like an elevated therapist. seems to be getting more trendy. they largely don't take insurance unfortunately but this particular individual specializes in ADHD and processing some of my experiences, including recent positive ones, has been really helpful

i used to be obsessed with the concept of mindfulness, now i'm mainly pissed off at how easy mindfulness can actually be. maybe i exercised that part of my brain enough that the meds were the final push over the edge

I had a therapist for a while and still see them on occasion, and I would say their approach is a bit more like a "life coach" even though they don't call themselves that. Very present and behavior focused as opposed to delving into past traumas, which I think I've done enough of, and I find her approach to be more helpful.

definitely. i finally found a good therapist last year and did all the 'unpacking' shit, which was definitely necessary to establish a capacity to tackle things in a new way

So far, I've just been working with mine on functional changes I can use to improve my everyday life, rather than addressing my origin story or whatever, but yesterday she helped unlock the roots of my midnight snacking problem.

absolutely, but sometimes it becomes a hyperfixation on buying something. one time in an instant my brain decided i ABSOLUTELY HAD TO acquire a PS4 just to play red dead redemption 2 to the detriment of my relationship, finances, responsibilities, etc. dropped everything to devote 5-6 hours on almost manic behavior- hastily formed and botched craiglist deals, desperate spars with ATMs, attempts to raise my credit limit, speeding to an empty gamestop five minutes before they close, waiting hours for a patch to install on shitty internet, starting RDR2 tutorial at 4am and sleeping until noon. it was like i was watching myself do all this shit.

This resonates for me but more so applied to the inverse; that general desperation of the brain to do anything but the boring work I need to do. Like I'm helplessly watching a livestream of my brain looking for any possible stimulating thing to do aside from the thing I have to do, and I'm yelling at the screen to just do the thing like one yells at a soccer match on television. I know this is unrelated to the obsession topic but here but this particular description of the madness just brought that similar experience to mind.

xp

I need to check this thread more often, feeling seen reading a lot of your posts, thank you everyone for sharing your experiences.

The obsessing about one thing, namely certain artists or genres or directors or authors, is something I strongly relate to, and also to the abandoning of those obsessions just as quickly. I too never thought of this in ADHD terms but yeah, it makes total sense.

I have this analogy about taking ADHD meds: I imagine myself as a little battery-powered woodcutter, like a mechanical toy. If you point the woodcutter at the pile of wood, his little axe will complete the task at hand and everything will be good. But there is only a small window of time to make this decision between taking the pill and getting to work. And if my little mechanical woodcutter person happens to open Twitter or check out some jazz thing on Youtube instead of chopping the wood, it’s over. I call this “chopping the wrong wood.” My attention is suddenly not on my mountain of deadline-dependent work, but on something mundane and frivolous. And then two short hours later, I’m out of gas.

Unfortunately, it’s an ordeal for me to get my meds: every month I require a new approval from the doctor, which usually just requires an email, but it gives me this anxiety because I usually run out before the refill date. And if I run out on a Friday, I have to wait the entire weekend to fill it. And then I’m at the mercy of CVS. To be clear, I’m not abusing my meds, at least not in the way that the word “abusing” tends to conjure certain ideas among the unmedicated. I’m on a very low dose* and some days I don’t need to take it, but other days I double up because I have a million things that can no longer be put off. Inevitably, I come up short at the end of every month. This triggers anxiety, which leads to depression and sloth.

*I’ve been on the same dose for like 8 years and I’m afraid to ask for a dosage increase because I have this irrational fear that the doctor will assume I’m abusing it. This stems from a guilty conscience due to a history of light recreational drug use, this feeling that anything that has the capacity to make me feel good surely must be discretely delivered to my door by a college kid in a Sublime hoodie. The fear may be irrational, but the whole requiring approval anew every month doesn’t help assuage this feeling that I’m getting one over on someone. So I both over and under-medicate as needed. I’d like to say this isn’t sustainable, but I’ve been doing this for years. Please don't say "find a doctor who won't judge you" because aside from what I assume is a state requirement about prior authorization, my doctor has never made me feel especially weird about taking my meds. I just assume all doctors are wary of prescribing controlled substances, and I don't like the feeling of being under suspicion, whether that's rational or not.

I have missing teeth, and I live in a trailer park. The only low-cost option for psych meds in my area is a substance abuse clinic that does psych on the side, and they won't prescribe amphetamine. (They also only do severe psych cases, and I'm pretty functional in most people's eyes--I have a husband of 20+ years and a job of 5.) I'm pretty resigned to never getting meds for my ADHD even though I know that that's going to be the thing that really helps me.

I had a therapist for a while and still see them on occasion, and I would say their approach is a bit more like a "life coach" even though they don't call themselves that. Very present and behavior focused as opposed to delving into past traumas, which I think I've done enough of, and I find her approach to be more helpful.

― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, 11 February 2022 15:49 (yesterday) link

definitely. i finally found a good therapist last year and did all the 'unpacking' shit, which was definitely necessary to establish a capacity to tackle things in a new way

― global tetrahedron, Friday, 11 February 2022 16:53 (yesterday) link

After spending a lot of years doing the other kind of therapy, I really don't believe that it can "fix" ADHD. What it can do is get you to the point that you realize that you are deserving of the better life you can have if you take the steps to manage your ADHD, but then you still ultimately need to learn how to manage it, and untangling emotional issues doesn't somehow magically unclog your brain and make it function differently (which is what I think I expected to happen when younger)

Christine that is really rough and I’m sorry. Is there a way to help?

I'm not sure what can be done.

Hi there! My 7 year old was just diagnosed with ADHD, and we're thankful because it explains a lot of behaviors and struggles.

Does anyone have advice one talking to a young child about their diagnosis?

My problem is even when I'm really into something, it can be nearly impossible for me to go on at length about it. I read a fair amount and I can form general impressions from what I read, but when I try to remember specific details in the heat of conversation, I end up drawing a blank. I might be able to recall a couple cool facts or something, but when pressed for more, it's over. This is something that's troubled my all my life and is one of the things I'm trying to get my therapist to help me with.

― peace, man, Friday, February 11, 2022 10:07 AM (four days ago) bookmarkflaglink

i have a problem where i have a massive array of knowledge in my head about certain things, but when pressed to come up with an example, find myself drawing a blank as my mind pours over all the possibilities. i'm guessing this is adhd-related, but it's definitely something that has plagued me in job interviews. i need to have my "stories" down pat and drill them heavily.

My mind just genuinely goes blank in those situations, which always stirs up my deep-rooted terror (I am not exaggerating when I call it a terror) of being perceived as stupid. And yes, I think this is ADHD related.

Interesting to read the posts about going blank in conversation. I am basically silent in most conversations, which is not at all the ADHD stereotype as I understand it, and one of the things I fear counting against me if I go for diagnosis (which I really need to stop putting off and do soon).

For one thing I just seem to have very slow conversational reactions. (My bf complains that talking to me is like having a conversation via satellite linkup with the moon; he's forever telling me something and by the time I answer he's left the room and gets cross that he has to come back, and I get cross that he left the room so fast without waiting a beat for a response, etc.) I think this might be an autism spectrum thing - something else I'm not diagnosed with but relate to the diagnostic criteria for, although less than ADHD.

But also I get self-conscious and feel like I have to vet my sentences over & over in my head before I speak, and then take a deep breath to get ready, and by then someone else has jumped in. To some extent I guess I'm overcompensating for all the times I was called tactless or told off for talking over someone, or stumbled on my words, or started a story and then realised I was telling it in the wrong order or had forgotten the crucial detail, or realised it was actually pretty lame/didn't make sense/would reveal something bad about myself, etc.

Anyway it's interesting to know that despite the stereotype I would not be the only ADHDer who goes blank and clams up.

PS I forgot to say thanks, everyone, for yr v helpful posts when I unleashed my extended howling angst onto this thread two weeks ago. I kept meaning to reply, but thinking about my post reminded me that I still hadn't done the work, and so every time I would think "how about you do that piece of work instead of revisiting a conversation about not having done it on the internet" and, well, I did neither.

Guess what I should be doing right now? Yeah. (Well, going to bed, mainly, preferably having already done it, but... yeah.)

But also I get self-conscious and feel like I have to vet my sentences over & over in my head before I speak, and then take a deep breath to get ready, and by then someone else has jumped in. To some extent I guess I'm overcompensating for all the times I was called tactless or told off for talking over someone, or stumbled on my words, or started a story and then realised I was telling it in the wrong order or had forgotten the crucial detail, or realised it was actually pretty lame/didn't make sense/would reveal something bad about myself, etc.

Identify with this so much - and maybe with the whole idea that self-managed ADHD tendencies might manifest as overly-rigid self-control/caution.

I don't have that with talking, but I do see the effects of too much self-control in other places. I have the rejection-sensitivity thing, and what it's taught me is to temper my expectations for all relationships so that I'm not surprised if people don't like me, to act very chill even when I'm feeling rejected, and to avoid people if I'm not 100% sure they want to spend time with me. I don't want to be that person I frequently was as a kid, who blundered into social groups where she wasn't wanted, so I'm extremely cautious about friendships and tend to wait for a very explicit by-name invitation to any group activity before assuming I'm going along. It means I miss out on a lot, and probably let quite a few friendships die that I could keep alive if I tried.

Cow_Art, I would absolutely start with watching Russell Barkley’s “45 million things everyone should know about adhd”, a long lecture rather unhelpfully broken up into tiny segments on YouTube. Lots of parenty stuff in there. Very insightful & hopeful & useful & humane.

here's a long one by him. maybe not the same one but there's some good stuff in there

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCAGc-rkIfo