Is ADHD a real disorder?

fwiw i haven't been obsessed with anything this way in at least a few years (personal record?) and don't know that i'm any better off, really. nowadays when people ask what i'm up to i have no idea what to tell them. i'm always "drawing a blank" lately when catching up with friends.
it was always a little embarrassing to talk nonstop about something nobody else really cares as much about and not be able to help myself... but i'm kinda the most boring person in the world now.

― The 25 Best Songs Ever Ranked In Order (Deflatormouse), Friday, February 11, 2022 12:11 AM (nine hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

This happens to me too fwiw. I go through phases where I'm not into *anything*, and I feel almost like an animatronic president from the hall of presidents who just sat back down in the darkness after giving a speech and is now back to being a lifeless heap of latex-coated metal.

My problem is even when I'm really into something, it can be nearly impossible for me to go on at length about it. I read a fair amount and I can form general impressions from what I read, but when I try to remember specific details in the heat of conversation, I end up drawing a blank. I might be able to recall a couple cool facts or something, but when pressed for more, it's over. This is something that's troubled my all my life and is one of the things I'm trying to get my therapist to help me with.

Do you guys have the thing where you get really obsessed with something and you HAVE TO talk and thing about it nonstop, and it's thrilling but also alarming bc you literally can't switch your brain off it, and then, little by little, it starts to bring you declining returns of interest and joy until one day it is GONE and you are free but also bereft?

― Lily Dale, Thursday, February 10, 2022 7:28 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

absolutely, but sometimes it becomes a hyperfixation on buying something. one time in an instant my brain decided i ABSOLUTELY HAD TO acquire a PS4 just to play red dead redemption 2 to the detriment of my relationship, finances, responsibilities, etc. dropped everything to devote 5-6 hours on almost manic behavior- hastily formed and botched craiglist deals, desperate spars with ATMs, attempts to raise my credit limit, speeding to an empty gamestop five minutes before they close, waiting hours for a patch to install on shitty internet, starting RDR2 tutorial at 4am and sleeping until noon. it was like i was watching myself do all this shit.

i can avoid things just as severely. it's stressful!

and yea, when i 'get into' things i really get into them, fahey, the dead, etc, likely to the annoyance of others around me. while those obsessions have been rewarding in some ways (basically got decent at guitar because of fahey), when i lose the strong affinity for said obsessions, i find myself not listening to ANY music, which i don't care for

slightly embarrassing but i am currently seeing a 'life coach', like an elevated therapist. seems to be getting more trendy. they largely don't take insurance unfortunately but this particular individual specializes in ADHD and processing some of my experiences, including recent positive ones, has been really helpful

i used to be obsessed with the concept of mindfulness, now i'm mainly pissed off at how easy mindfulness can actually be. maybe i exercised that part of my brain enough that the meds were the final push over the edge

I had a therapist for a while and still see them on occasion, and I would say their approach is a bit more like a "life coach" even though they don't call themselves that. Very present and behavior focused as opposed to delving into past traumas, which I think I've done enough of, and I find her approach to be more helpful.

definitely. i finally found a good therapist last year and did all the 'unpacking' shit, which was definitely necessary to establish a capacity to tackle things in a new way

So far, I've just been working with mine on functional changes I can use to improve my everyday life, rather than addressing my origin story or whatever, but yesterday she helped unlock the roots of my midnight snacking problem.

absolutely, but sometimes it becomes a hyperfixation on buying something. one time in an instant my brain decided i ABSOLUTELY HAD TO acquire a PS4 just to play red dead redemption 2 to the detriment of my relationship, finances, responsibilities, etc. dropped everything to devote 5-6 hours on almost manic behavior- hastily formed and botched craiglist deals, desperate spars with ATMs, attempts to raise my credit limit, speeding to an empty gamestop five minutes before they close, waiting hours for a patch to install on shitty internet, starting RDR2 tutorial at 4am and sleeping until noon. it was like i was watching myself do all this shit.

This resonates for me but more so applied to the inverse; that general desperation of the brain to do anything but the boring work I need to do. Like I'm helplessly watching a livestream of my brain looking for any possible stimulating thing to do aside from the thing I have to do, and I'm yelling at the screen to just do the thing like one yells at a soccer match on television. I know this is unrelated to the obsession topic but here but this particular description of the madness just brought that similar experience to mind.

xp

I need to check this thread more often, feeling seen reading a lot of your posts, thank you everyone for sharing your experiences.

The obsessing about one thing, namely certain artists or genres or directors or authors, is something I strongly relate to, and also to the abandoning of those obsessions just as quickly. I too never thought of this in ADHD terms but yeah, it makes total sense.

I have this analogy about taking ADHD meds: I imagine myself as a little battery-powered woodcutter, like a mechanical toy. If you point the woodcutter at the pile of wood, his little axe will complete the task at hand and everything will be good. But there is only a small window of time to make this decision between taking the pill and getting to work. And if my little mechanical woodcutter person happens to open Twitter or check out some jazz thing on Youtube instead of chopping the wood, it’s over. I call this “chopping the wrong wood.” My attention is suddenly not on my mountain of deadline-dependent work, but on something mundane and frivolous. And then two short hours later, I’m out of gas.

Unfortunately, it’s an ordeal for me to get my meds: every month I require a new approval from the doctor, which usually just requires an email, but it gives me this anxiety because I usually run out before the refill date. And if I run out on a Friday, I have to wait the entire weekend to fill it. And then I’m at the mercy of CVS. To be clear, I’m not abusing my meds, at least not in the way that the word “abusing” tends to conjure certain ideas among the unmedicated. I’m on a very low dose* and some days I don’t need to take it, but other days I double up because I have a million things that can no longer be put off. Inevitably, I come up short at the end of every month. This triggers anxiety, which leads to depression and sloth.

*I’ve been on the same dose for like 8 years and I’m afraid to ask for a dosage increase because I have this irrational fear that the doctor will assume I’m abusing it. This stems from a guilty conscience due to a history of light recreational drug use, this feeling that anything that has the capacity to make me feel good surely must be discretely delivered to my door by a college kid in a Sublime hoodie. The fear may be irrational, but the whole requiring approval anew every month doesn’t help assuage this feeling that I’m getting one over on someone. So I both over and under-medicate as needed. I’d like to say this isn’t sustainable, but I’ve been doing this for years. Please don't say "find a doctor who won't judge you" because aside from what I assume is a state requirement about prior authorization, my doctor has never made me feel especially weird about taking my meds. I just assume all doctors are wary of prescribing controlled substances, and I don't like the feeling of being under suspicion, whether that's rational or not.

I have missing teeth, and I live in a trailer park. The only low-cost option for psych meds in my area is a substance abuse clinic that does psych on the side, and they won't prescribe amphetamine. (They also only do severe psych cases, and I'm pretty functional in most people's eyes--I have a husband of 20+ years and a job of 5.) I'm pretty resigned to never getting meds for my ADHD even though I know that that's going to be the thing that really helps me.

I had a therapist for a while and still see them on occasion, and I would say their approach is a bit more like a "life coach" even though they don't call themselves that. Very present and behavior focused as opposed to delving into past traumas, which I think I've done enough of, and I find her approach to be more helpful.

― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, 11 February 2022 15:49 (yesterday) link

definitely. i finally found a good therapist last year and did all the 'unpacking' shit, which was definitely necessary to establish a capacity to tackle things in a new way

― global tetrahedron, Friday, 11 February 2022 16:53 (yesterday) link

After spending a lot of years doing the other kind of therapy, I really don't believe that it can "fix" ADHD. What it can do is get you to the point that you realize that you are deserving of the better life you can have if you take the steps to manage your ADHD, but then you still ultimately need to learn how to manage it, and untangling emotional issues doesn't somehow magically unclog your brain and make it function differently (which is what I think I expected to happen when younger)

Christine that is really rough and I’m sorry. Is there a way to help?

I'm not sure what can be done.

Hi there! My 7 year old was just diagnosed with ADHD, and we're thankful because it explains a lot of behaviors and struggles.

Does anyone have advice one talking to a young child about their diagnosis?

My problem is even when I'm really into something, it can be nearly impossible for me to go on at length about it. I read a fair amount and I can form general impressions from what I read, but when I try to remember specific details in the heat of conversation, I end up drawing a blank. I might be able to recall a couple cool facts or something, but when pressed for more, it's over. This is something that's troubled my all my life and is one of the things I'm trying to get my therapist to help me with.

― peace, man, Friday, February 11, 2022 10:07 AM (four days ago) bookmarkflaglink

i have a problem where i have a massive array of knowledge in my head about certain things, but when pressed to come up with an example, find myself drawing a blank as my mind pours over all the possibilities. i'm guessing this is adhd-related, but it's definitely something that has plagued me in job interviews. i need to have my "stories" down pat and drill them heavily.

My mind just genuinely goes blank in those situations, which always stirs up my deep-rooted terror (I am not exaggerating when I call it a terror) of being perceived as stupid. And yes, I think this is ADHD related.

Interesting to read the posts about going blank in conversation. I am basically silent in most conversations, which is not at all the ADHD stereotype as I understand it, and one of the things I fear counting against me if I go for diagnosis (which I really need to stop putting off and do soon).

For one thing I just seem to have very slow conversational reactions. (My bf complains that talking to me is like having a conversation via satellite linkup with the moon; he's forever telling me something and by the time I answer he's left the room and gets cross that he has to come back, and I get cross that he left the room so fast without waiting a beat for a response, etc.) I think this might be an autism spectrum thing - something else I'm not diagnosed with but relate to the diagnostic criteria for, although less than ADHD.

But also I get self-conscious and feel like I have to vet my sentences over & over in my head before I speak, and then take a deep breath to get ready, and by then someone else has jumped in. To some extent I guess I'm overcompensating for all the times I was called tactless or told off for talking over someone, or stumbled on my words, or started a story and then realised I was telling it in the wrong order or had forgotten the crucial detail, or realised it was actually pretty lame/didn't make sense/would reveal something bad about myself, etc.

Anyway it's interesting to know that despite the stereotype I would not be the only ADHDer who goes blank and clams up.

PS I forgot to say thanks, everyone, for yr v helpful posts when I unleashed my extended howling angst onto this thread two weeks ago. I kept meaning to reply, but thinking about my post reminded me that I still hadn't done the work, and so every time I would think "how about you do that piece of work instead of revisiting a conversation about not having done it on the internet" and, well, I did neither.

Guess what I should be doing right now? Yeah. (Well, going to bed, mainly, preferably having already done it, but... yeah.)

But also I get self-conscious and feel like I have to vet my sentences over & over in my head before I speak, and then take a deep breath to get ready, and by then someone else has jumped in. To some extent I guess I'm overcompensating for all the times I was called tactless or told off for talking over someone, or stumbled on my words, or started a story and then realised I was telling it in the wrong order or had forgotten the crucial detail, or realised it was actually pretty lame/didn't make sense/would reveal something bad about myself, etc.

Identify with this so much - and maybe with the whole idea that self-managed ADHD tendencies might manifest as overly-rigid self-control/caution.

I don't have that with talking, but I do see the effects of too much self-control in other places. I have the rejection-sensitivity thing, and what it's taught me is to temper my expectations for all relationships so that I'm not surprised if people don't like me, to act very chill even when I'm feeling rejected, and to avoid people if I'm not 100% sure they want to spend time with me. I don't want to be that person I frequently was as a kid, who blundered into social groups where she wasn't wanted, so I'm extremely cautious about friendships and tend to wait for a very explicit by-name invitation to any group activity before assuming I'm going along. It means I miss out on a lot, and probably let quite a few friendships die that I could keep alive if I tried.

Cow_Art, I would absolutely start with watching Russell Barkley’s “45 million things everyone should know about adhd”, a long lecture rather unhelpfully broken up into tiny segments on YouTube. Lots of parenty stuff in there. Very insightful & hopeful & useful & humane.

here's a long one by him. maybe not the same one but there's some good stuff in there

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCAGc-rkIfo

i feel that heavily, lily

Oh damn, I relate too.

I don't have the best impression of my psychiatrist or his front office staff so far, but I'm sticking with him because of the difficulty of trying to look for a new one

Can I vent for a moment? Because THIS. FUCKIN. GUY.

Last week, I realized that I was almost out of my medication (150 mg Wellbutrin), so I called the office and told them I needed a refill to last me until my appointment with him (which was yesterday). This made sense as I had a 30 day supply and my Feb appointment was a little more than 30 days after my Jan appointment. They got the scrip, I picked it up from the pharmacy. Fine. I finished up last month's bottle and started the new one on Monday.

One thing that we had discussed in January was switching to 300 mg after doing 150 for a while. You know - try taking two for a while and see how it goes! So yesterday, I decided to do that since it was the day of our next appointment and we were probably gonna make this shift anyway. I definitely felt the medicine A LOT more in my head. I thought that the 300 mg was definitely more noticeable, but I would probably get used to the increased dosage after a week or so. I had a moderately difficult time getting to sleep last night but I managed it.

So this morning, I went to take my meds and I actually looked at the bottle - 300 mg. I had definitely, specifically asked for a refill on my 150 mg pills and he gave me 300. So yesterday I had 4 times my usual dose going through my system. It didn't hurt me, but I'm not feeling too forgiving about that kind of medical miscommunication.

Also, he's closing down his office that is located in my neighborhood (he has another office 20 minutes away). I only found out because when I walked in for my appointment, there were signs plastered all over the place informing of this. Apparently, this is their last week in town. And yes we could do check-ins over the phone, but I'd kinda rather meet face-to-face. I've already been meeting with my psychologist (also part of his practice) over the phone, and that's been okay, but not ideal.

Sorry for blathering on about this, but I've spent YEARS telling myself I needed to get treatment and I'm pretty disappointed that the practice I chose seems to be fucking clown shoes.

Oh, and Wellbutrin's side effects can include irritability, which I'm definitely feeling at the moment!

Oh yeah, I'm familiar with that. If you also consume caffeine, I strongly recommend cutting back. I now do half decaf coffee.

I had already cut caffeine out. And while I do feel a bit of irritability now and again on Wellbutrin, today I think it's directly related to this 600 mg dose I took yesterday, compounded by the fact that I don't like my doctor.

had bad experience with wellbutrin, sorry to hear this. it's frustrating navigating the healthcare landscape when you have trouble in other areas of your life

OMG if I took 4x my normal dose I'd probably shoot up a post office. Even accidentally taking double once made me feel pretty rev'd up.

Yeah, I wasn't even in a bad mood yesterday though! Just more INTENSE. That is until this morning when I realized that dude fucked up my prescription.

So I am finally supposed to start an ADHD med. It's Strattera. I got the prescription a week ago and still haven't made myself start it because I am terrified of drugs. Can somebody please tell me to stop being a baby and take the damn med?

is it something you can phase in? like is it a pill you can easily cut in half? i definitely feel you on the terrified of drugs thing.

I'm supposed to start out with one pill in the morning, then go up to two a day after a week, so I'm already supposed to be phasing it in. Hopefully it's a low enough dose that I won't notice anything dramatic. But I still keep waking up and putting off taking it until it's not morning anymore, and then I put it off till the next day and so on.

The stupid thing is I'm on break this week, so it's the perfect time to start a new med. But I've never taken anything before that's supposed to affect my mind, and even at a low dose, that scares me.

Lily Dale, congratulations on trying to start meds. That's a huge step. I took it back in November and I'm still wading through trying different dosages of different medications.

I agree with you that a week off is the best time to start. I have definitely had issues with side-effects on both Strattera and Wellbutrin, particularly within the first week of starting a new med or upping the dosages. I just kinda had to accept that that might be part of the process and that it wasn't forever and that if I decided that the side effects weren't worth it, I could call my psychiatrist and ask about transitioning to a lower dose or a different medication or discontinuing altogether.

One thing that I did that was helpful was to keep a log of how much I was taking per day and what negative effects I noticed (unfortunately, with both Strattera and Wellbutrin, these are meds that are supposed to take at least six weeks before they show any effectiveness in treating ADHD, so I didn't bother tracking positive side effects). So I'd write down something like

2/17/2022 Wellbutrin 300 mg. Increased dose today. Had slight trouble getting to sleep, but slept through the night.

Anyone ever accidentally taken their Wellbutrin twice? I did yesterday and OH MY GOD.

Basically had a day long anxiety attack about an issue at work - not even a mistake I made just something I should have brought up with my boss earlier and hadn't (even though it was by no means too late to bring it up). When I finally did bring it up, it wasn't even a big deal.

Have you seen those medication caps that have a timer thing on top which tells you how long it’s been since you last opened the bottle? Good alternative to 7-day pill containers (which you have to remember to refill).

That's a brilliant idea actually. Given that I always take the med when I first wake up, and that I have, you know, ADHD, I am prone to confusion about whether I've already taken it or not.

I bought one of the 7-day pill containers the other week after I had some confusion about whether I had taken my pill or not. I'd definitely rather skip a day than take two again though. That was a bit of a wild ride.

The thing about doubling my dose that one time though - is that the Wellbutrin actually felt like it was working and helping me through the day. At my current dose of 300 mg, it feels like the door is slightly more open. But at 600 it was fully wide open and actually helping me out (in addition to making me a bit more irritable and anxious at times). I don't want to ask my psychiatrist to step it up to 600 mg, because at 300, I am at a place where I can just barely manage the insomnia side effects. I'm going to bring this all up with him at our appointment next week.

Xps Amazon has them for pretty cheap

https://www.amazon.com/TimerCap-Automatically-Displays-Opened-Built/dp/B00HJD7RGQ/ref=cart_prsubs_1?pd_rd_i=B00HJD7RGQ&psc=1

I'm only on 150mg, so 300 was a lot for me. But tbf I also drink coffee.

I actually can't drink coffee, even before I started seeking treatment. I used to be a serious caffeine addict. Many, many cups of coffee throughout the day. But at some point, I developed an intolerance for it, to the point where even decaf could mess with my sleep.

Tried and abandoned first type of medication with our 7 year old. Dyanavel, an amphetamine. Gradually increased dosage until she was a paranoid, shitty crank and the entire family was miserable. The next day with no meds she was our sweet daughter again.

I guess we try a methylphenidate next.

Had to come back to share this beautiful article by an eminent psychiatrist, dismantling the "chemical imbalance" nonsense that has impaired so many people's understanding of mental health and behavioural disorders: https://return.life/2022/03/17/the-myth-of-the-chemical-imbalance/

I tried Strattera a few weeks ago and stopped after a day because the side effects were so bad. Thinking I'll try again over a break, because there was just no way I could deal with that while working.

Yeah, Strattera's side-effects were terrible for me. Specifically, nausea and mood swings in the beginning and then a worsening of my insomnia that lasted the duration of me taking it. What did you get?

The second stimulant does not work for my daughter either. Amphetamines and methylphinidates both give bad mood swings at very low doses. Her mom is extremely sensitive to all drugs, which might have something to do with it. Next step is to find a child psychiatrist.

xp First, a feeling of intense cold, so that I couldn't do anything but turn the heat up all the way and crawl under the covers. That went away mid-afternoon, presumably when the pill wore off. Then I was tired and foggy for the rest of the day, then I woke up the next morning with stomach pain and diarrhea that kept me running in and out of the bathroom for three hours. Decided I could possibly deal with the first two while teaching but not the third. (Sorry for the details of gross symptoms. Thanks for asking!)

Yeah, I think my stomach issues lasted for about two weeks when starting it.