"who's we?" is a good question. what we need is a better internationalism -- one that is able to address global issues such as climate change. US hegemony is a barrier to this, but so would be different countries duking it out for regional power the way they were in the beginning of the 20th century.
― treeship., Wednesday, 9 March 2022 01:38 (two years ago) link
can't believe you didn't find any answers to the weighty foreign policy questions of the day on the podcast chapo trap house
― symsymsym, Wednesday, 9 March 2022 02:59 (two years ago) link
they should at least try to address this stuff.
― treeship., Wednesday, 9 March 2022 03:03 (two years ago) link
Seemed like an entire episode addressing this stuff, though. Just no good answers about 'what is to be done' and you know, sometimes there are no good answers to that question. 'Regional powers duking it out' is a reality, what the last month has laid bare is that there isn't a mechanism to halt that - but the global hegemon trying desperately to maintain its place can wreak a lot of bonus havoc trying and failing to do so.
― papal hotwife (milo z), Wednesday, 9 March 2022 03:14 (two years ago) link
personally I wouldn't be interested in their answers, but that's just me...maybe try this pod instead?
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/american-prestige/id1574741668
― symsymsym, Wednesday, 9 March 2022 03:16 (two years ago) link
The modern European order pretty much rests on that hegemon, and relatively enthusiastically so. I guess in the end it means fuckall what we think, and the left probably has less influence on foreign policy than anything else, but I find it hard to take that lightly and just say "oh well, Russia's going to dominate Europe now, liberal social democracies were fun while they lasted."
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Wednesday, 9 March 2022 03:17 (two years ago) link
xp I like Davison but wasn't he just on Chapo insisting Russia wasn't going to invade Ukraine? Will still give his post-invasion show a listen.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Wednesday, 9 March 2022 03:18 (two years ago) link
'The Europeans like it, though' is not a particularly compelling reason for us to pay for strategic bombers on Diego Garcia and troops in South Korea rather than having a functioning civil society, IMO.
― papal hotwife (milo z), Wednesday, 9 March 2022 03:29 (two years ago) link
can you guys please quarantine the ukraine talk to the bad thread I’m not going to read?
I usually hate the “we wrote a script for tv/political drama” shtick from the live show excerpts but I’ll allow the CTH guys this recent one for that excellent clip of Walton Goggins
― mh, Wednesday, 9 March 2022 15:50 (two years ago) link
let's not talk about ukraine on a thread about a show that just had an episode about ukraine
― Chappies banging dustbin lids together (President Keyes), Wednesday, 9 March 2022 15:52 (two years ago) link
hey, do as you will, I’m just making a request
― mh, Wednesday, 9 March 2022 16:04 (two years ago) link
There were other claims on the show that particularly bothered me too, for example Felix's repetition that the US had somehow "gassed up" Ukraine for this conflict. As though people wouldn't care about being invaded/taken over by Russia if the US hadn't engaged in some kind of psyop to make them think fighting for their homeland is worth it.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Wednesday, 9 March 2022 16:13 (two years ago) link
I’m just thankful that these dangerous horseshoe theorists aren’t the president or secretary of state or get inches in the paper of record or offered standing invites as ‘experts’ on every cable news channel. you know, like people who supported the Iraq invasion.
― OG Bob Sacamano (will), Wednesday, 9 March 2022 16:20 (two years ago) link
I haven't listened to This Is Sus... Is it assumed that the listener HAS watched these shows or HASN'T watched these show? Some of them, like Oz or Homeland seem like they're regular wheelhouse PRESTIGE TEEVEE things, and then others it's like ironic normie TV, and then it's like didn't everyone get excited about Nashville so which is it?
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Friday, 18 March 2022 22:10 (two years ago) link
It started out as What Pseudo-Prestige TV Says About Us (kind of) and then seems to have morphed into Felix watching bad TV and recapping it.
― papal hotwife (milo z), Friday, 18 March 2022 22:33 (two years ago) link
The live show episodes are the absolute worst sales pitch for buying a ticket to see them on tour.
― papal hotwife (milo z), Friday, 18 March 2022 22:34 (two years ago) link
i thought the live show bits from the other week were alright but the audience participation stuff this week was painful, particularly the guy whose podcast pitch was about how he was one of the cool fans of the show, not like those other fans. Kind of grim to think that those ideas were the best that the audience had to offer.
― JoeStork, Saturday, 19 March 2022 06:29 (two years ago) link
The tv recaps are kind of a grab bag. I’ve never watched Homeland and the way it was broken down would probably work better for someone who’s watched some episodes. Kind of trashy propaganda-filled thriller with weird character arcs is how they ended up describing it. The La Brea episode is a strong warning to not watch the show unless you want to see absolutely terrible television and it’s mostly goofing on how bad the show is
― mh, Saturday, 19 March 2022 15:12 (two years ago) link
I don’t think I listened to a CTH episode about Oz, but hoo boy was that show ever a proto-prestige show. I watched it when it aired and it’s funny how they hit so many things that would be later hallmarks of prestige television, but also just had wild trash flying out of every plot device
― mh, Saturday, 19 March 2022 15:14 (two years ago) link
xxp I forgot I had even played this. It's a yikes my dude.
― maf you one two (maffew12), Saturday, 19 March 2022 15:14 (two years ago) link
Oz’s trash ones and insanity actively thwart binge watching. More than two episodes in 48 hours and your brain starts to melt.
― papal hotwife (milo z), Saturday, 19 March 2022 16:24 (two years ago) link
Trashiness
What were the original “prestige” shows? The Sopranos? Sex and the City?
― Otto Insurance (Boring, Maryland), Saturday, 19 March 2022 17:42 (two years ago) link
Sopranos for sure. even tho it was network feels like West Wing was in the running
― OG Bob Sacamano (will), Saturday, 19 March 2022 17:47 (two years ago) link
The West Wing/Homicide/NYPD Blue were all pointing that way but Sopranos is the first one that really had that "it's a NOVEL but on TV" air to it IMO.
― papal hotwife (milo z), Saturday, 19 March 2022 17:51 (two years ago) link
yeah totally. i should watch Homicide and the Shield at some point.
― OG Bob Sacamano (will), Saturday, 19 March 2022 18:14 (two years ago) link
I had a bootleg DVD set once upon a time but Homicide has never gone up for streaming anywhere AFAIK, it's a shame
― papal hotwife (milo z), Saturday, 19 March 2022 18:23 (two years ago) link
Twin Peaks
― Chappies banging dustbin lids together (President Keyes), Saturday, 19 March 2022 19:56 (two years ago) link
Yeah Twin Peaks may be the grandfather of the genre.
― Otto Insurance (Boring, Maryland), Saturday, 19 March 2022 20:21 (two years ago) link
Hill Street Blues afaik
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Saturday, 19 March 2022 21:28 (two years ago) link
Miami Vice and Crime Story gotta fit in there somewhere, too
― Judi Dench's Human Hand (methanietanner), Saturday, 19 March 2022 22:18 (two years ago) link
If we’re going to keep going backwards, then—-Twilight Zone
― Chappies banging dustbin lids together (President Keyes), Saturday, 19 March 2022 23:17 (two years ago) link
I think one defining thing about “prestige tv” is the season long (or show long) story arc, so not sure Twilight Zone would count.
― Otto Insurance (Boring, Maryland), Saturday, 19 March 2022 23:47 (two years ago) link
I guess Black Mirror isn’t Prestige then
― Chappies banging dustbin lids together (President Keyes), Sunday, 20 March 2022 00:48 (two years ago) link
Season-long arcs and when you watch it you feel smarter than the schmoes watching normal TV are the primary requirements.
― papal hotwife (milo z), Sunday, 20 March 2022 01:08 (two years ago) link
Definitely also shows that dominate media discourse way out of proportion to their viewership numbers. Josh Fruhlinger on Twitter a couple years ago was pointing out how millions more people watch, like CBS old-people bait like NCIS than Mad Men but all “the discourse” is about the latter.
― Otto Insurance (Boring, Maryland), Sunday, 20 March 2022 01:20 (two years ago) link
The Prisoner fits most of the qualifications.
― Chappies banging dustbin lids together (President Keyes), Sunday, 20 March 2022 03:09 (two years ago) link
I finally cancelled my patreon. Time for these guys to get a real job.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Sunday, 20 March 2022 03:48 (two years ago) link
I think the official modern prestige era, if you accept that The Sopranos kind of bridged from proto- to actual-prestige tv, is The Wire. (You can just count The Sopranos, idk whatever)Which lines up with Homicide being a precursor
― mh, Sunday, 20 March 2022 22:05 (two years ago) link
the general critical line is that Sopranos, The Wire, and Deadwood are the initial trinity of prestige TV, and so I think one of the hallmarks is that prestige TV should be About Something Bigger, as well as having this more uniformly high level of acting, directing, and creative control. Twin Peaks definitely stands apart from other TV at the time and has Lynch's creative stamp on it, but the acting and directing...varies, and it was famously subject to the demands of ABC executives. The Prisoner kind of qualifies, but most of the episodes barely contribute to the story arc. Twin Peaks and Homicide seem like the shows where there was a real conflict between the show's potential and the demands of network TV, rather than just issues with the standards and practices department.
If miniseries count then I'd say that Roots and Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy would be the closest to prestige TV pre-90s.
― JoeStork, Sunday, 20 March 2022 23:50 (two years ago) link
Right I always got the impression that prestige tv shows no matter when and where they are set we’re meant to be “It’s About America Today don’t you see”
― Otto Insurance (Boring, Maryland), Sunday, 20 March 2022 23:53 (two years ago) link
The "it's about AMERICA" thread in The Sopranos is my least favorite aspect of it. I mean, obviously it's about America, but whenever they try to work in larger commentary about foreign policy or that sort of thing.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Sunday, 20 March 2022 23:57 (two years ago) link
I like season two of the Wire because the Sobotkas/union guys/Greeks are good characters on their own but Frank's "we used to BUILD SHIT" asides are a bit on the nose.
― papal hotwife (milo z), Monday, 21 March 2022 00:27 (two years ago) link
What I really loved about Deadwood and The Wire is how much they were shows about entire communities; The Sopranos had a bit of that + in depth psychological analysis of one individual character, and then shows like Mad Men and Breaking Bad explored that second aspect to the extent that it now seems to be the prestige TV default. I know Simon got rightfully clowned for saying The Wire was "more like a novel" but I do wish more TV shows had that sprawling 19th century novel feel to them with dozens of characters.
― Daniel_Rf, Monday, 21 March 2022 11:33 (two years ago) link
i feel like this genre probably kicked off in the US with the PBS slot MASTERPIECE THEATRE in 1971? one of the earliest series it broadcast was the BBC's THE FORSYTE SAGA (26 eps first broadcast from mid-1967, the last BBC drama filmed in B/W). galsworthy's novel sequence it's based on was published in the early 20th century but it's about the 19th century: and it's very much sprawling with dozens of character -- watching it as a tiny i was afraid of the patriach soames forsyte (eric porter) and had a bit of a crush on fleur (susan hampshire) tho all i know remember is that hampshire the actress publicly discussed her dyslexia -- which was the first time i learned of this condition
where is my chapo invite
― mark s, Monday, 21 March 2022 11:42 (two years ago) link
I remember there being a fun thread years ago where we pitched ideas for The Wire S6, but can't find it now.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Monday, 21 March 2022 11:58 (two years ago) link
Emily Nussbaum had a very good piece about how Sex and the City was a flagship show for HBO but how that has since been revised down by the post-show’s legacy films and…revisionism.
― mardheamac (gyac), Monday, 21 March 2022 12:03 (two years ago) link
"Puzzle Box" TV kind intersects with Prestige TV too, though it can obviously also just be trash. It's a slightly different lineage The Prisoner---Twin Peaks---X-Files---Lost--Carnivale---Mr. Robot---True Detective--The Leftovers---Westworld--Russian Doll etc. I suppose you could throw Battlestar in there as well.
― Chappies banging dustbin lids together (President Keyes), Monday, 21 March 2022 13:43 (two years ago) link
last Citations Needed episode “news brief”on US media narratives and tropes in response to Russian invasion is A+
― OG Bob Sacamano (will), Monday, 21 March 2022 20:18 (two years ago) link
Blowback S3 is going to supportingcast.fm instead of Stitcher, hallelujah
― papal hotwife (milo z), Wednesday, 13 April 2022 01:09 (two years ago) link