Let's bitch about our stupid, annoying co-workers

i'm really lucky in some ways, there is literally only one bad apple with maybe two sycophants and the rest are good people who have to step around her and are getting increasingly frustrated about it. makes it much easier and less stressful to stand up to her.

The dumb thing about reacting poorly to surveys is that:

a) it's usually something you were told about by someone prior and refused to fix

b) businesses seem to view growth from feedback as this amazing magic trick, like if you're the rare person who takes it to heart and says "I will fix these things and be an open door", you can parlay that into amazing respect from leaders, paradoxically moreso than if you just hadn't been shit all along.

Continuing to publicly whinge about it and how bad it makes you feel personally, makes you a high risk employee that execs want to show the door.

I worked w someone similar to yr boss in 2010 and she was basically asked to leave because we had serious concerns with her project management and all she did was try and catch us doing something wrong and get us in trouble via retaliation rather than make the much easier effort of just not being so terrible. Like an improvement to mediocrity and people would have sang her praises.

businesses seem to view growth from feedback as this amazing magic trick, like if you're the rare person who takes it to heart and says "I will fix these things and be an open door", you can parlay that into amazing respect from leaders, paradoxically moreso than if you just hadn't been shit all along.

non-profits have this mindset as well! As do couples therapists! ... a system like that is more likely to provoke a defensive response, if not a doubling down, (if the feedback is negative), except for in the "rare" case you mentioned.

So that last sentence pretty much describes exactly where we are now, but there is absolutely no hope of that changing anytime soon.

I am almost 100% certain that if upper management saw how this guy actually conducts business and treats his staff they would be utterly horrified, but complaints to HR have vanished and attempts to bring these to light up the chain have been stymied at every turn. The most frustrating is that a couple of us have asked, together and separately, his supervisor to meet with us to hear our concerns, but that request immediately gets forwarded to BAD MANAGER and they get asked to attend. Like, no! We need to talk about him, not with him.

that's just poor managing in itself, no different than forwarding something you shared about a manager to said manager. but most people who are managers don't know how.

one of my besties has been with our company almost as long as me (I met him in our office!) and one day he got mildly frustrated about something and he comes to me saying "man I gotta work on my attitude, boss got upset for how I flew off the handle today" and he shares teh chat and his comments were really benign, mild frustration and asking for help, and his boss's responses were "why are you like this today?", "STOP.", "ENOUGH.", and lecturing him "I thought we discussed this a few weeks ago and you weren't going to be like this anymore, what's going on w/ you?", and I told my friend "you know your manager is the one that's wrong here and not you, right?"

the thing that frustrates me about feedback is that I used to be better at taking it and adapting, like I had no qualms whatsoever about listening and improving, but once certain people began weaponizing feedback as a way to control my behavior in my old job (some of it purely made up), it created in me a defensive wall that I haven't been able to break down completely, even though nobody is doing that to me anymore.

You know I’m trying to help you here. I think you could probably just make the phone call yourself and avoid me sending emails back and forth up down and around trying to figure out what to do.

You know I’m trying to help you here.

I'm starting to genuinely believe that, no, people probably indeed do not know when others are trying to help them. They think flailing around like toddlers and making everything infinitely more complicated is THE WAY TO WORK.

No you know what, honestly, I’m happy to help you, I know you have a ton on your plate already without having to deal with this, sorry for negging you in the ether, my bad <3

lol and after all that “you’re not authorized,
fill out this form”, do y’all really want to get this stuff moved or do you just like watching me dance?

certain people began weaponizing feedback as a way to control my behavior

In those situations, okay, at least one, where that happened to me, I just quit. Like, there was no way I was going to "win" so I quit before they could combine actual incidents where I was "at fault" with made up or exceptionally vague "feedback" and throw it at me with the expectation I would try and refute their claims, item by item. But what was clear, is that they had a problem with me. ... I later was hired back as a consultant (this happened at two different places).

The more I think about these jobs, the better I feel about being partly self-employed. Some of these businesses/organizations have structures that make people toxic ...

I was going to therapy at the time and it helped me fight back. I defended myself and went into DNGAF mode, mouthing off to everyone who tried to fuck with me. I quickly learned that nothing would happen to me for doing it and there are about five people now who refuse to talk to me anymore.

Good, I hated them. But I had to change positions as all that negative energy was exhausting

lol – my biggest client is a place i (sort of) rage quit many years ago. one of the humans responsible for my getting fed up is my main contact now and i do savour the opportunity to flip the script on her overly rigid behaviour (when required) now that I'm a contractor.

xpost

i do savour the opportunity to flip the script on her overly rigid behaviour (when required) now that I'm a contractor.

oh yes, congratulations!

I have an employee, Z., who is becoming more and more negative and it's dragging me down. When we hired for their position we were asked to put forth two candidates. Z was not the committee's pick, but my manager overrode the committee and picked Z. I had concerns--this employee's personality doesn't fit with the job, it's a job for an outgoing person and they are not that. They're becoming more and more hostile, despite my best efforts.

I have listened to their feedback when they told me I was being condescending, I took a moment, stated that while it was not my intention to be that way, I understand that THEY felt that way and apologized for it. Then I asked for ways to deliver feedback in neutral, safe ways for them so they could be accountable for things but not feel bad/negative. Yes I address things neutrally, i.e. "When this happens" vs. "When you do."

I never got any follow up on that ask, and I asked a few times for ideas. I try to speak neutrally, but Z is a super sensitive person.

The place where we work has both open to the public spaces (we're in academia) and private work areas as well. Students, too. Last week I asked Z to remind a faculty member of our area's policy for common work areas--this faculty member has been holding class in our area (not in their assigned classroom) for the entire semester. It can be disruptive to the people who work in my area and to other students. Z agreed. . . when I went to them to ask for follow up, they went from 0 to 100 in a few seconds, yelling at me, interrupting me, and stepping toward me with their finger in my face.

I walked away and said we'd discuss later.

I probably should have handled the interaction w/the faculty member myself in retrospect.

A few days later we all met with HR to discuss. HR advised me to apologize which I did and then we could move forward. Z does not agree with the work area policy, but said they would continue to enforce it. But no apology for the yelling and no accountability. HR left after we smoothed things over and as we began to discuss the policy, Z got more and more mad. I just listened. . . . as best I could.

I *might* try and talk with Z at a standing and try to look for better ways to communicate, but it's such a negative work environment. It's just really hard!

Wait, you apologized when Z yelled at you and wagged their finger at you in public? That’s unacceptable, afaic Z should be canned.

Like, did the meeting with HR happen because Z requested it or because you did? Even if you were in the wrong, which hey could be true, there’s no reason for any co-worker to yell at and berate another coworker in a public space at work.

Yeah, honestly the appropriate response is "If you ever point that finger at me again, I'm gonna snap it off and you're gonna fuckin' eat it."

Ya that’s “coworker is making me feel unsafe” level of aggression.

I try to speak neutrally, but Z is a super sensitive person.

Is Z a cis white dude or are there potential "privilege" factors at play in their sensitivity and/or interpretation of your feedback as being condescending?

Not that that gives them carte blanche to go off on you for any perceived slight ... just trying to get a better sense of the situation

I should probably ask if this person is "neurodivergent" as well

Is Z a cis white dude

No, a white woman--possibly neurodivergent, but hasn't disclosed or asked for accommodations. Z requested the meeting, I added HR to the meeting. I believe there will be further discussion/next steps on this, and I feel ok about that. HR took lots of notes. I did just want to vent about it a little because it was so fucked.

I apologized b/c HR said it would be the best next step. I asked them to do something they didn't feel comfortable doing--part of the future follow up is when that happens again, Z needs to let me know *in the moment* they are not comfortable.

Thanks y'all for listening.

When I say possibly neurodivergent--I don't think it's really likely, mostly just like doesn't understand how to interact with others at work, numerous examples abound

there could def. be potential areas of privilege on my end, but I have asked for ways to communicate better that would better suit this person and that hasn't happened, and I don't think anything excuses getting yelled at/berated like that

I guess the way I see it (and what I was getting at with my questions) is:

A. You have a shitty work situation with this coworker and something should be done to make it less shitty
B. These factors may play a role in making it shitty, and may also affect how you can get things to be less shitty

Thanks and yeah I agree on A and B. There are def factors going on here way out of my control

To: All
Subject: Dogs ROCK!, so do cats different ways

hear them out

tbh i appreciated that subject line

he's a fan of dogs, but does not want to alienate cat owners. though the body of the email shows it was just a token gesture.

Always been fascinated with the dog-human evolutionary partnership past and present:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/dog-evolution-60-minutes-2022-11-27/

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/dog-cancer-trials-comparative-oncology-60-minutes-video-2022-11-27/

i was not allowed to take PTO until October, so I had to burn most of my PTO in November/this week. I have to teach a class next week and needed to send invites, so I did what I always do - logged in for 5 minutes to send the invites and pop back off.

instead, it took over an hour because a bunch of assholes in Operations decided to enroll 50+ extra people in a class that was originally 10, which forced my teammates to scramble and find 3-4 other teachers and split the class in three.

Then they continued to make changes in the days after this, and rosters were sent through multiple emails and the official roster, and none of them matched at all.

I finally figured out that the official roster was mostly correct but that someone in Ops this morning requested to remove six of the people and nobody had seen it or made updates. I (quite rudely, admittedly) fixed the invites and sent them and ended by saying "btw, this is VERY CONFUSING" and making it a point of how I had to work far beyond what I had planned during my PTO due to the lack of clarity.

amazes me how dim-witted some of our higher paid employees are.

has it occurred to any of them that they might do better on retention if the onboarding process were not constantly fucking everyone involved in it

lol - i gave up shouting at them about that the sixth time they jedi-handwaved it away as "things that happen".

meanwhile, i have a friend who works at a competitor and she was listing all of her clients and I was like "those....used to be our clients, 5 years ago".

the good news at least is we just hired new people and I'll get to mentor for a bit which is fine and a thing I like doing. we're doubling our headcount for the first time since 2018.

apparently setting up Out of Office messages is a forgotten art.

One manager decided to take two weeks off, never set up an OOO message, left without telling his reports who to contact in his absence, leaving chaos behind him.

another did set one up, but it refers to people who claim to have no knowledge of why he's referring to them.

facilitator: Accidental Death and Dismemberment isn't like a life insurance, it only pays out if you lose a limb or the loss of a limb.

students: But it says it pays in the event of death.

facilitator: well it's not a life insurance, we'll talk about it in a bit, but it's not like a life insurance.

me: actually it is, you see the word DEATH appears in the title, and it does pay out in the event of death, if the death is due to an accident of some type. whereas other life insurances pay out for any type of death (with a few exclusions).

facilitator: (awkward silence) oh.

more an "lol r u serious" moment than anything to be mad about

my co-worker is currently practicing more radical acts of vacationing ... dude works really hard so it isn't like he's lazy but ... it's a bit awkward when I have to respond to a client he was supposed to get in touch with that "he's on vacation again" ... and this client has been waiting on my co-worker to complete a project for months.

I ended up euphemistically stating, "I think he is somewhere without cell reception today"

lol the having to lie for co-workers is always fun.

should make the lie embarrassing next time

"hate to tell you this....loads and loads of diarrhea. yeah.....yeah his house is completely sealed as cleaning crews get to work. yeah....possibly contagious. mmhmm."

hahahaha

this is a guy who at one point a couple years ago had his work laptop stolen, so he got a rental laptop, which his cat knocked a glass of water over onto, frying parts of it ... and he was too embarrassed/afraid to report this to the laptop rental company ...

update: so apparently the co-worker's car broke down while on vacation and they were gone an extra unplanned day while waiting to have it fixed in the idyllic beachfront area where they were vacationing ...

Did their phone also break down

he had no/bad reception, however his wife apparently had much better reception as she posted video of said idyllic beachfront area on Insta ....

nothing will top the time several years ago where he had scheduled a meeting with me for later in the week but had forgotten that he was leaving for a two week family vacation in Tuscany the day before our scheduled meeting ...

Lol brutal.

I had someone I was supervising on a project go on a winter vacation to Tennessee. This was a habitually negligent employee that never finished assignments on time and eventually was laid off for performance.

The general rule in our dept was "take your PTO and use it, but you better be done with outstanding assignments or have worked out a backup plan with your PM". Nobody ran afoul of this typically so it never really came up... except with her. She insisted she'd finish the assignment in the week leading up, refused my offers to get someone to help, then didn't finish.

They again refused my offer to bring someone into help, offered to work during the last few days of vacation to finish.

They apparently forgot about the snowy winters in TN, were driving there and back, and lost two days of travel due to a snowstorm, only getting home day before training began. Didn't do any work.

I wound up doing it all. A year later, I asked to leave the project manager role lol

Lol brutal.

I had someone I was supervising on a project go on a winter vacation to Tennessee. This was a habitually negligent employee that never finished assignments on time and eventually was laid off for performance.

The general rule in our dept was "take your PTO and use it, but you better be done with outstanding assignments or have worked out a backup plan with your PM". Nobody ran afoul of this typically so it never really came up... except with her. She insisted she'd finish the assignment in the week leading up, refused my offers to get someone to help, then didn't finish.

They again refused my offer to bring someone into help, offered to work during the last few days of vacation to finish.

They apparently forgot about the snowy winters in TN, were driving there and back, and lost two days of travel due to a snowstorm, only getting home day before training began. Didn't do any work.

I wound up doing it all. A year later, I asked to leave the project manager role lol

Oops soz for dub post

it was appropriate in context lol

HR tried to ask us today if we could catch up a learner who misses a lot of material by recording the training session on MS Teams. besides the practical reasons this wouldn't work, they apparently aren't familiar with wiretap/eavesdropping laws, which would require us to get permission from all learners in 2-party states before recording.

while technically we record other meetings, we do disclose it, and it's easier to get away with because a) often times the people in recorded meetings aren't doing any talking themselves, b) the meetings are short, and c) if they don't want to be recorded, they're allowed to just leave, no harm no foul.

a new hire cannot voluntarily leave training, and are going to be doing a LOT of talking, and might view it as creepy surveillance. if they don't agree to being recorded, we'd have to stop abruptly.

so one of our new hires was struggling in class and we put them on a 3-day improvement plan, and the TM has transparently tried to interfere in the process, trying to pressure the instructors to fail her on the plan since Day 1 (which would end her employment).

she wound up passing, and he is refusing to budge. I am in process of determining whether I go to HR to complain about his interference. As it stands, if we did fail her now and she complained to HR, I am 100% sure they would side with her, noting in the email trail that it seemed the TM was pushing for a result before it even began.