from a disaster movie standpoint, I love Titanic. w/e about the romance bit
― Fash Gordon (Neanderthal), Friday, 23 December 2022 17:19 (one year ago) link
It works as a disaster movie when it gets macro and you see the boat splitting in half and people falling and such but that’s probably 15 minutes of the movie at best. Lot of time with cartoon characters and Rose running back and forth in water doing cartoon things. It is not good.
― circa1916, Friday, 23 December 2022 17:30 (one year ago) link
It's not like he's made much since then, but that was the introduction of his "who gives a shit about the script and acting, it's all about the impact" mode of filmmaking. Basically shamelessly sensorial (including sentimentality). But imo the reason he can get away with long stretches of inaction in movies like the Terminators, the Abyss or Aliens or even (to a lesser extent) the really dumb True Lies is that one likes and is invested in the characters and their relationships in more than a surface way. That's one of the most disappointing aspects of "Titanic" and where imo it loses the plot (so to speak). Since you know from the start that the boat is going to sink, that does a lot of the heavy lifting while you sit through all the boilerplate melodrama. Whereas movies like Aliens and T2, you think you know where they're going, but for sequels they're full of surprises, which heightens the situations of characters you actually, well, care about. Sounds like maybe the new Avatar does a better job on that front than the first one did.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 23 December 2022 17:55 (one year ago) link
it helped that the "boilerplate melodrama" of titanic featured a romance between two of the absolute finest actors of their generation
― comedy khadafi (voodoo chili), Friday, 23 December 2022 18:20 (one year ago) link
titanic is a much more old fashioned film than avatar, a pure star-driven vehicle that relies on their charisma to keep the movie afloat (no pun intended) before everything goes to shit.
that romance was the box office draw, much more than the effects, no matter how state of the art they might have been.
― comedy khadafi (voodoo chili), Friday, 23 December 2022 18:21 (one year ago) link
Ffs Billy Zane was in it. Practically screams time capsule.
― Fash Gordon (Neanderthal), Friday, 23 December 2022 18:25 (one year ago) link
hey now, Billy Zane slammed evil. Show some respect.
― Judi Dench's Human Hand (methanietanner), Friday, 23 December 2022 18:29 (one year ago) link
romance was the box office draw
otm. it was a romance 'date' movie from the ground up. the culminating disaster/gruesome mass death/big sfx aspects allowed men to enjoy it, too.
― more difficult than I look (Aimless), Friday, 23 December 2022 18:41 (one year ago) link
two of the absolute finest actors of their generation
Winslet is very good but are you arguing with a straight face that Leonardo Dicaprio is a good actor? Shit, he's not even a good movie star.
― but also fuck you (unperson), Friday, 23 December 2022 19:16 (one year ago) link
DiCaprio can be good, but he was not good in Titanic. In fact, he was bad (or at least had some of the worst dialogue). But it made him a household name movie star, of which he remains one of a dwindling few.
The romance is what gave it legs for sure, and the sort of legacy that Avatar lacked, but as I remember it was sold as spectacle. Everyone saw Titanic for the FX, but it was the legions that saw it again and again for the romance that surprised the naysayers and made it huge.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 23 December 2022 19:22 (one year ago) link
I feel like Cameron understands what actors are charismatic but I think at some point he lost the ability to write charismatic dialogue
― mh, Friday, 23 December 2022 19:30 (one year ago) link
maybe he never had it, idk!
brad and voodo chili otm, everyone else offtm
― flopson, Friday, 23 December 2022 19:34 (one year ago) link
Aliens has fabulous dialogue wtf
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 23 December 2022 19:35 (one year ago) link
He managed to make Arnold Schwarzenegger an icon, despite his obvious limiations.
― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Friday, 23 December 2022 19:36 (one year ago) link
See, Schwarzenegger had no obvious limitations. He never wanted to play Lear, he didn't want to be Meryl Streep: he wanted to be the biggest star on the planet and, maybe, get the Constitution changed so he could run for president. He succeeded with the former. I don't knock off points for realizing his career aspirations.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 23 December 2022 19:39 (one year ago) link
They’re both good in it, Winslet particularly. But there’s a ton of ADR, understandably (boat deck stuff mostly) and it is weirdly crappy.I went in with open arms with this one, paid to rent it, but it is insultingly stupid. Without the gloss of WOW that it had at the time, there’s nothing there. Obv The Romance connected hard with a certain segment of pubescent people at a certain time and I can’t begrudge them that. But man, it’s pretty rough as an adult viewer in 2022.
― circa1916, Friday, 23 December 2022 19:40 (one year ago) link
but apparently Scrunchy Face is so good at the sexing that Winslet's hands presses against automobile glass.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 23 December 2022 19:41 (one year ago) link
every night in my dreams, I see you, I FP youuuu
― Fash Gordon (Neanderthal), Friday, 23 December 2022 19:41 (one year ago) link
nearfarI watch Avataaaaaaar
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 23 December 2022 19:43 (one year ago) link
i don't think this movie's politics are bad at all tbh. it's an anti-capitalist, anti-colonialist, and environmentalist big budget hollywood movie celebrating a successful indigenous resistance movement. it kind of seems miraculous that it exists? it's a breath of fresh air compared to the cynical ironic centrism of marvel movies. the sequel downplays the white saviour/noble savage stuff a lot relative to number 1 imho
it's a deeply earnest and corny movie so it's inevitable that people who value feeling cool and aloof will clown on it, but it's a genuinely incredible achievement
― flopson, Friday, 23 December 2022 19:43 (one year ago) link
Cameron's politics are often as opaque as John Milius'. True Lies is a batshit terrible anti-Arab and anti-woman movie, but the Alien and Terminator films have enough genuine contempt for capitalism and faceless corporatism.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 23 December 2022 19:45 (one year ago) link
I haven't seen anything DiCaprio's been in since Shutter Island, but he's usually been good, especially in his earlier roles.
― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Friday, 23 December 2022 19:46 (one year ago) link
See, Schwarzenegger had no obvious limitations.
Apart from his inability to deliver dialogue of any length or complexity, which Cameron obviously recognized.
― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Friday, 23 December 2022 19:47 (one year ago) link
eh every scriptwriter ever has written to a star's limitations. He's not any worse.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 23 December 2022 19:49 (one year ago) link
Cameron's politics are often as opaque as John Milius'. True Lies is a batshit terrible anti-Arab and anti-woman movie, but the Alien and Terminator films have enough genuine contempt for capitalism and faceless corporatism.― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, December 23, 2022 2:45 PM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, December 23, 2022 2:45 PM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
anti-woman, anti-arab, anti-capitalist, anti-corporatism are not mutually exclusive. makes sense to me as the ideology for an 80s action film director
― flopson, Friday, 23 December 2022 19:49 (one year ago) link
xp But that's my point, it was actually genius to write a script where Arnold's most memorable lines consisted of no more than a handful of words.
― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Friday, 23 December 2022 19:50 (one year ago) link
It’s not a miracle that a James Cameron movie put out by Disney that is destined to make billions of dollars has milquetoast anti capitalist, hippy sentiments, sorry.xp’s
― circa1916, Friday, 23 December 2022 19:50 (one year ago) link
― flopson
True. See: First Blood.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 23 December 2022 19:51 (one year ago) link
yeah I might even go see it again tonight. I get the white savior comments of the first (i made them myself), but in this film you get illegal game hunters 86'ed, evil imperialist Marine avatars all diced up (but one), the military portrayed as dim-witted automatons that do nothing but destroy, and then there's the inclusivity aspect, where Grace's daughter is at first derisively called 'half-breed', the children all having 'demon blood' and having those same bigoted people coming around and accepting them (except the marines but fuck them).
I feel like Avatar franchise gets held to different standards than some of its peers, mostly because Cameron is a cocky dude. like in 2009 among people I knew it was "well it LOOKED great, but it doesn't look as good on your home tv screen or sound as good, and it doesn't hold up as well on repeat viewings, and also the plot seemed like Ferngully and I needed something STIMULATING for my forward-thinking brain, something like Forrest Gump". whereas some of these same people showed up to Jurassic World opening night and came all over the movie theatre seat cushions
― Fash Gordon (Neanderthal), Friday, 23 December 2022 19:51 (one year ago) link
guess I won't be sitting down on any Sanford theatre seats
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 23 December 2022 19:52 (one year ago) link
It’s not a miracle that a James Cameron movie put out by Disney that is destined to make billions of dollars has milquetoast anti capitalist, hippy sentiments, sorry.
Black Panther was a fine movie but its politics were a bit iffy. wouldve been way better if at the end the Black Panther turned to the camera & said "i am communist now" & then specified hes the exact kind of communist i am— TORMABLAS PARODYIACKLELALES (@Tormny_Pickeals) February 19, 2018
― flopson, Friday, 23 December 2022 19:54 (one year ago) link
xpost who cares if they're milquetoast, when it comes down to it, the politics of just about every Marvel movie are pretty cringe (and half the fans took the wrong position, Team Captain, in Civil War). and blah blah blah 'detention center filled with innocent contractors' Star Wars etc etc. idk why Avatar gets singled out.
― Fash Gordon (Neanderthal), Friday, 23 December 2022 19:55 (one year ago) link
lol flopson
xps- calling it "milquetoast anti capitalist" proves my pt that "it's a deeply earnest and corny movie so it's inevitable that people who value feeling cool and aloof will clown on it"
― flopson, Friday, 23 December 2022 19:55 (one year ago) link
the Bill and Ted Halloween show at Horror Nights in Universal used to have a running gag for a decade (until it closed) where someone could come out dressed as an Avatar character and say "THEY HAVE SEX WITH THEIR TAILS" and during the final show ever this actress admitted they'd had it wrong for years and that it was the hair they had sex with and not their tails.
― Fash Gordon (Neanderthal), Friday, 23 December 2022 19:57 (one year ago) link
Hollywood has been blandly liberal forever. I mean I guess we’ve dumped far enough that we need to stand up and applaud Avatar 2’s politics.
― circa1916, Friday, 23 December 2022 19:59 (one year ago) link
The piece of cloth dangling between the male Na’vis legs will always cover their penis. They may jump around, swim, or fight, but cloth will always swing into place to hide the penis. Their energies are forever connected with Eywa. The great mother watches over them 🙏— Rajat Suresh (@rajat_suresh) December 20, 2022
― comedy khadafi (voodoo chili), Friday, 23 December 2022 20:02 (one year ago) link
think flopson was more reacting to why people said the politics were terrible in A2 rather than saying Cameron had literally achieved The Battle of Algiers with Blue People.
― Fash Gordon (Neanderthal), Friday, 23 December 2022 20:02 (one year ago) link
like do I really go to these hollywood tentpoles thinking "I am hoping to see a film that advocates for a living wage", no, at best I say "I hope this film is entertaining and that its makers don't ruin it with really toxic beliefs" .
― Fash Gordon (Neanderthal), Friday, 23 December 2022 20:04 (one year ago) link
lol Aliens is practically the hambone '80s Battle of Algiers.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 23 December 2022 20:05 (one year ago) link
"Let's see how we whiteys can survive as the native population takes revenge on us."
I checked out on Marvel shit many years ago so if this is a welcome corrective measure, I’ll take it. I grew up in the age of Fern Gully and Free Willy and I guess I don’t see it as revolutionary.
― circa1916, Friday, 23 December 2022 20:14 (one year ago) link
This was a lot of fun.
― The Triumphant Return of Bernard & Stubbs (Raymond Cummings), Friday, 23 December 2022 20:18 (one year ago) link
To be fair, the aliens in the Alien franchise are also colonizers.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 23 December 2022 20:27 (one year ago) link
Also fwiw, I commute a lot for work and listen to some movie podcasts and Cameron and Avatar are very much Cool and In. If I’m bucking, I’m bucking that thing. I think he’s got 3 great movies. First Terminator fucking rules and is his best imo.
― circa1916, Friday, 23 December 2022 20:34 (one year ago) link
tie between that one and Aliens.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 23 December 2022 20:36 (one year ago) link
I was being a bit flip but I do enjoy the dialogue in everything Cameron did pre-Titanic. I wasn’t changing that assessment, just expressing self-doubt and I know he was the writer and not director but when are we going to get a Strange Days critical reassessment
― mh, Friday, 23 December 2022 20:37 (one year ago) link
by the time I watched Aliens the entire Space Marines trope had been kind of driven into the ground so it wasn’t as compelling to me as Alien, which is just top tier
― mh, Friday, 23 December 2022 20:39 (one year ago) link
Aliens kills, but Ridley wins that one by a mile. Some of the best art direction in the history of film.
― circa1916, Friday, 23 December 2022 20:46 (one year ago) link