like the queen this thread will never die: in which we ALL resign (ourselves to disgusting miseries to post-boris politics 2022)

i apologise for my inflammatory rhetoric and agree that debate is the essence of civilised liberalism

it's what the Romans did, after all

they also considered abortion acceptable up to 1 year after childbirth nbd

he could have made the same point with a less controversial thinker/book.

Yes, but part of this is about dog whistling to those concerned about Cultural Marxism I'd venture.

He’s so sore about this, like he never got over being clowned on for being the leader of a supposed socially liberal party.

At least we got the greatest Twitter thread of all time out of it.

pic.twitter.com/fjD8z6J46L

— ian mighty (@iammightor) February 3, 2017

a good debate would be what levels of violent retaliation are morally permissible when sham democracy only offers other dangerous bad actor options - as not heard on The Moral Maze!

I have not really managed to learn anything from Das Kapital. It's very difficult to read.

I managed to read part of the Bible and it was advocating revolutionary social change.

the bible = a page turner

Das Kapital = nnnufff boring!!

bit too many begats in the Bible, gets a bit AD&D

Farron's entire argument is there isn't enough begatting in modern Britain

Farron should try actually reading some Marx and also The Bible, and while he's at it he should read some f'in Orwell

also as an ex "bands" type dickhead he should have taken on board some of the radicalism of The Manic Street Preachers ... lol

meanwhile

The Special Immigration Appeals Commission (SIAC) concluded there was "credible suspicion" that Begum was trafficked to Syria for "sexual exploitation" and that there were "arguable breaches of duty" by state bodies in allowing her to travel to the country.

But Mr Justice May said in a summary that the existence of this suspicion was "insufficient" for her to succeed on arguments that the deprivation of her citizenship failed to respect her human rights, adding that given she was now in Syria, the home secretary was not compelled to facilitate her return nor stopped from using "deprivation powers".

"the fascist state is technically correct, the best kind of correct"

Shamima Begum’s loss of appeal is a gross miscarriage of justice against a girl who was groomed and traumatised, and a warning sign that the citizenship of diaspora groups is contingent on avoiding criminalisation. The mainstream media is complicit in this harm.

— Amardeep S Dhillon (@AmarDeepSinghD) February 22, 2023

Overturn this judgement and it makes it way more difficult to de-citizen the next vulnerable person the Tories* want to scapegoat!

* or, tbf, Labour

Tim’s intervention is salutary partly because it’s always good to be reminded of the last time a Lib Dem was caught actually believing in something but also it gives the lie to the argument (usually made semi jokingly) that at least they are being honest and owning their bigotry. They aren’t! They’re being incredibly disingenuous and dogwhistling and diverting!

I remember thinking at the time of the controversy about his own views that Farron's position seemed defensible - iirc the contention wasn't about his voting record on lgbt issues, which was unobjectionable, but on his personal beliefs about whether or not gay sex was a sin, and his argument was that politicians shouldn't legislate on personal morality, there was a distinction between politics and personal morality - this wasn't a contradiction of his liberal beliefs, because it was precisely his liberal beliefs than led him to the position that he shouldn't impose his own position on the sinfulness or otherwise of gay sex on other people - but Forbes's position is less defensible in that she says she would have voted against gay marriage if she had the chance, so she can't convincingly make this distinction between politics and personal morality

that’s a good point!

we're going to have to put up with a lot more of this kind of whinging and special pleading over the next few weeks

Secularism now means a ban on religious people in public life.

— Giles Fraser (@giles_fraser) February 21, 2023

arrested and thrown in jail merely for being a member of the Church of England/ Wee Free/ Manson Family [delete as applicable]

Secularism now means a ban on religious people in public life.

the marxist/das kapital thing was stupid but tbf to Farron if you watch the video he pushes against this position, points out that he and Forbes and Ian Blackford have all risen to prominent positions in public life while being open about their Christian beliefs

this is what Christ felt like

cancelled because he wasn't woke enough

starmer already on the defensive before he’s even delivered the speech ffs

https://i.imgur.com/nFIPEwS.jpg

oh christ, Rajan was quoting bits of it to him this morning - it's taking "nothing at all to see here" to new levels of tedium.

Starmer's defence was: it's our intent to deliver nothing at all that is important, it's neither here nor there if most ppl are going find the wording hollow and meaningless

Kieth: here are 5 big waffles, no syrup tho, we can't afford syrup

the Media: these new Labour waffles are certainly unlike any previous waffles we've ever seen and show a business-like new commitment to waffles from Labour

Kieth stans: these waffles are way better than the Tories' corrupt, dishonest waffles. you don't talk about syrup before an election, it would just give the Tories a chance to say bad stuff about your syrup, or worse still, to offer some syrup and fresh fruit too. did i mention i hate Tories? if you don't love plain waffles you're a Tory. EAT THE WAFFLES

re 'secularism debate':

seems to me the truth is the opposite of what Fraser says, in that it is forbidden to criticise anyone for their religious beliefs. Those are, indeed, 'sacrosanct', while 'political beliefs' are treated differently.

(Though all this is subject to the fact that most of the media talks garbage and has no consistent sense of principles anyway, mainly preferring to attack anti-racists for their notorious racism and so on.)

so Kieth's first waffle: the highest growth in Europe or wherever. as a non-economist it seems to me this isn't something that a government can realistically promise? but it also nicely sets out a framework for Labour to continue with austerity, low public sector pay and any other continuation of gross inequality because "hey, the growth"

but mainly he doesn't have to say this out loud, he can just say his magic mantra "growth" and this will answer any naive questions anybody puts to him about poverty

i suspect you're right but you can also boost GDP with public spending yknow!

look i know that, you know that, actual economists know that, but it's a crank position and we're cranks. the truth is that a nation state running on fiat currency runs its budget in exactly the same way as an imaginary housewife from 1952

i'm assuming we won't be getting much explanation of how relying on eternal growth squares with being a "green superpower" either but maybe i'm too cynical

from an essay in The Monthly Review about the massive, society wide transformations required to transition to net zero:

Clearly, we are not yet ready—organizationally or politically—to advance an actual transformation plan. However, it is not too soon for us to begin thinking about the challenges that lie ahead, both to keep the ultimate goal of system change in mind and to start developing the organizational relationships and networks required to create a shared sense of priorities. A number of people, including me, believe that there is a lot we can learn from studying the Second World War mobilization experience.2 Under the pressure of war, the U.S. government was forced to confront challenges similar to those highlighted above, as it rapidly converted the economy from civilian to military production. And, thanks to the work of a series of mobilization agencies and policies that enabled the government to fund the construction of new industries, support the expansion of existing ones, order the closure or conversion of yet others, and allocate scarce machines and resources according to established priorities, it succeeded.3

Not surprisingly, the consensus from those studying the wartime conversion experience is that a rapid and successful transformation requires aggressive state planning and direction of economic activity. This is indeed an important lesson for our movement to learn. But there is another lesson to be learned from that period, one that deserves more attention than it currently receives. It is that in a capitalist economy, capital’s ownership position greatly enhances its ability to mold state structures and their policies in ways favorable to its interests and to the detriment of workers. In other words, the planning process is a contested terrain, and one not usually favorable to working people.

one might hope for a labour party that looked out for working people but yknow

starmer criticises cynicism while he also abandons the idea of nationalising public utilities because he cant fathom how it is even possible

Strikes me he's one of the most cynical politicians I've seen in a long time.

starting to wonder if maybe this starmer fella is actually a total cunt tbh

five missions - sounds like the shittest and most unappealing dlc ever. They've purposely avoided "pledges" (nor any policy content either) but still the opening questions to him to him this morning were firstly, how can you put something out so bad that it pained us to read it even more than usual. Then followed by, how about that time you conned the membership, eh?

Membership are wallet inspected cucks tbf, he was right that that wouldn't matter

yes, "guileless simps" would be more accurate. But still people who applauded the con at the time will be dutifully accusing him of being a slippery lying fuck all the way to the next GE

otm literally everyone, God help us cos the Labour Party sure as fuck won’t

Exc:

King Charles was lined up by Number 10 to meet European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen tomorrow - just as highly contentious negotiations over the Northern Ireland Protocol were poised to come to a head

Some fear “misjudgment” dragging the King into poltics

— Sam Coates Sky (@SamCoatesSky) February 24, 2023

jfc the combination of an egomaniac monarch surrounded by yes men and a clueless gov that doesn't really give a fuck is a powerful recipe for fuckery

It's not Brexit...but it's Brexit.

Actually an ok piece detailing the combination of factors so we can understand why we have no tomatoes in supermarkets.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/feb/25/you-can-blame-the-weather-and-brexit-but-theres-more-to-the-uks-food-supply-crisis

when there are empty shelves under a Labour govt I suspect the UK media will go in much harder on them and it will be deserved because I feel confident they will do absolutely fuck all to reign in all the big supermarkets monopoly on food production. Despite all this I managed to get four packets of piccolo tomatoes, fuck yeah!

baron sainsbury of sainsbury's just "returned to the labour fold" is how hard labour will reign in the supermarket monopoly

Public info campaigns on the importance of getting your 5 a week

I knew a guy once who thought he was getting his 5 a day via Fruit Pastilles, worth considering for the nu-nu-Labour era

lol at your dn

I like Rayner and that piece makes sense except for this part. Is this bad editing? I can’t follow it and the first sentence in particular sounds like… not something anyone would want to say

But if we structure our food system so that those in poverty can access it, we will only further damage our agricultural base. We need on the one hand to deal with the functioning of our food system and on the other with poverty, with a chronically unequal distribution of wealth. We need to stop talking about food poverty and just call it poverty.

I would say the UK is now officially a banana republic except there probably aren't any bananas in the shops either.

xp Rayner is simply advocating for fully automated luxury communism