also, this is from the lead editorial in this weeks Economist:
How should centrist voters and parties respond to the threat from the hard right? The old answer was to erect a cordon sanitaire. Mainstream parties refused to work with the insurgents; mainstream media refused to air their views. That approach may have run out of road; in places it is becoming counter-productive. In Germany the isolation of the afd has reinforced its narrative of being the only alternative to a failed establishment. Mainstream parties cannot pretend for ever not to hear the voice of 20% of voters without eventually corroding democracy.Meanwhile, there is more evidence that hard-right parties in Europe tend to moderate their views when they have to take responsibility for governing.
Meanwhile, there is more evidence that hard-right parties in Europe tend to moderate their views when they have to take responsibility for governing.
Any decision to include a hard-right party in local or national government should be taken with extreme caution, especially in places where a history of fascism arouses acute sensitivity. Some rules of the road may help. One is that to be considered, any party must agree to renounce violence and respect the rule of law. Just as important is the constitutional context: at what level of government should they be included? What are the checks and balances created by the electoral system and other institutions? It may make sense to allow the afd to take part as junior members of local-government coalitions in Germany, for example.
― soref, Saturday, 16 September 2023 10:34 (nine months ago) link
Shocking that the Economist would be first in line for the "don't let's be beastly to the nazis" takes.
― Daniel_Rf, Saturday, 16 September 2023 10:47 (nine months ago) link
remember that other party they said would moderate their views when they got into power?
― Left, Saturday, 16 September 2023 10:47 (nine months ago) link
part whatever in the liberals talking themselves into fascism series
― Left, Saturday, 16 September 2023 10:48 (nine months ago) link
Some rules of the road may help.
chef's kiss
― difficult listening hour, Saturday, 16 September 2023 18:07 (nine months ago) link
don't you understand, they agreed to renounce violence and respect the rule of law! what could possibly go wrong?
also fuck the Economist forever
― budo jeru, Saturday, 16 September 2023 21:59 (nine months ago) link
You can't take the name Face-Eating Tigers Party literally.
― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Saturday, 16 September 2023 22:02 (nine months ago) link
Election taking place tomorrow, SMERs lead looks relatively small. Not that clear which way this might go
― anvil, Friday, 29 September 2023 12:51 (eight months ago) link
Fico/SMER wins as expected (though exit polls got it wrong, polls in the run in were correct)
He'll need to form a coalition, but the votes for it look to be there
― anvil, Sunday, 1 October 2023 04:57 (eight months ago) link
Where is this?
― deep wubs and tribral rhythms (Boring, Maryland), Sunday, 1 October 2023 09:17 (eight months ago) link
Slovakia, election yesterday
― anvil, Sunday, 1 October 2023 09:47 (eight months ago) link
Restrictions on L.G.B.T.Q. Depictions Rattle Hungary’s Cultural World
― butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table), Friday, 10 November 2023 11:53 (seven months ago) link
uh oh
― symsymsym, Monday, 20 November 2023 00:58 (six months ago) link
Argentina?
― out-of-print LaserDisc edition (sleeve), Monday, 20 November 2023 01:17 (six months ago) link
seems like it's gonna get weird
― symsymsym, Monday, 20 November 2023 01:18 (six months ago) link
Did he really fuck his sister
― deep wubs and tribral rhythms (Boring, Maryland), Monday, 20 November 2023 04:00 (six months ago) link
Dutch elections today, Geert Wilders' PVV in front
― StanM, Wednesday, 22 November 2023 21:07 (six months ago) link
ffs
― nashwan, Wednesday, 22 November 2023 21:17 (six months ago) link
I'm just going to stop listening to or following the news tbh.
― The First Time Ever I Saw Gervais (Tom D.), Wednesday, 22 November 2023 22:02 (six months ago) link
This what happens when the lovely, cushy centre lose
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 22 November 2023 23:11 (six months ago) link
Tr**p winning flashback for this American in NL. What a disaster.
― SQUIRREL MEAT!! (Capitaine Jay Vee), Wednesday, 22 November 2023 23:21 (six months ago) link
Not sure how the coalition prospects for him compare to, say, Poland's incumbent party. Could take some time anyway.
― nashwan, Wednesday, 22 November 2023 23:28 (six months ago) link
As the far-right Alternative for Germany continues to rise — and its radicalism becomes increasingly pronounced — a growing chorus of mainstream politicians is asking whether the best way to stop the party is to try to ban it.The debate kicked off in earnest after Saskia Esken, the co-chief of the ruling Social Democratic Party (SPD), came out earlier this month in favor of discussing a ban — if only, as she put it, to “shake voters” out of their complacency.
The debate kicked off in earnest after Saskia Esken, the co-chief of the ruling Social Democratic Party (SPD), came out earlier this month in favor of discussing a ban — if only, as she put it, to “shake voters” out of their complacency.
https://www.politico.eu/article/can-a-ban-stop-the-rise-of-germanys-far-right/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=Twitter
this seems nuts to me, banning a party that is polling at 23% nationally and getting over a third of the vote in some eastern states, is there any way that this could actually "work"?
― soref, Sunday, 14 January 2024 11:19 (five months ago) link
Germany’s constitution allows for bans of parties that “seek to undermine or abolish the free democratic basic order” — essentially allowing the state to use anti-democratic means to prevent an authoritarian party from corroding democracy from within.In reality, the legal hurdle for imposing a ban is very high. Germany’s constitutional court has only done it twice: The Socialist Reich Party, an heir to the Nazi party, was banned in 1952, while the Communist Party of Germany was prohibited in 1956.More recently, in 2017, the court ruled that a neo-Nazi party known as the National Democratic Party (NPD), while meeting the ideological criteria for a prohibition, was too fringe to ban, as it lacked popular support and therefore the power to endanger German democracy.
In reality, the legal hurdle for imposing a ban is very high. Germany’s constitutional court has only done it twice: The Socialist Reich Party, an heir to the Nazi party, was banned in 1952, while the Communist Party of Germany was prohibited in 1956.
More recently, in 2017, the court ruled that a neo-Nazi party known as the National Democratic Party (NPD), while meeting the ideological criteria for a prohibition, was too fringe to ban, as it lacked popular support and therefore the power to endanger German democracy.
it seems like there's a catch-22 here where you can't ban a small party because it's too fringe to endanger democracy, but also if a party is large enough to endanger democracy you can't ban it either because it's just not practical and/or you are 'endangering democracy' by the act of banning it?
― soref, Sunday, 14 January 2024 11:22 (five months ago) link
Well, one way of looking at that is you could apply the same rationale to not banning the nazi party during the Weimar era.
― Daniel_Rf, Sunday, 14 January 2024 12:53 (five months ago) link
So an apology is always good but this guy took the money at the time.
Today, first time in Polish TV, after 8 years of right-wing government, the LGBT+ activists appeared in live broadcast. I was seating there and heard journalist shaking voice. He made an apology after years of portraying LGBT-people a threat to Polish nation in the same studio.… pic.twitter.com/kOjzKrRHPf— Bart Staszewski (@BartStaszewski) February 11, 2024
― xyzzzz__, Monday, 12 February 2024 12:34 (four months ago) link
moving the overton window on LGBT acceptance in Poland surely more important at this juncture than this guy's individual morality/sincerity?
― Daniel_Rf, Monday, 12 February 2024 14:41 (four months ago) link
I mean, this is how it starts. Moving video, thanks xyzzzz__
― a hyperlink to the past (flamboyant goon tie included), Monday, 12 February 2024 15:01 (four months ago) link
Man, I spent half a year living in Poland as a 20-year-old, and I swore I would never return because of the homophobia and machismo of the culture. Hearing those words— and not needing the translation, even!— was really important to me. I sent it to my mom.
― butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table), Monday, 12 February 2024 23:11 (four months ago) link
Can only echo the above, this is great to see, thanks also xyzzzz__
― anvil, Monday, 12 February 2024 23:32 (four months ago) link
Chega, Portugal's far right party, have elected close to 50 MPs. The center right AD just squeezed by the center left PS and will now need a deal with one of the parties to govern - PS has already said they're not available, AD says they won't go into coalition with Chega but that doesn't mean they won't cut some sort of deal.
Actual left decimated, count them all together and they're accounting for 10% of the electorate at this stage.
― Daniel_Rf, Monday, 11 March 2024 11:51 (three months ago) link
Depressing.
― man in suit and red tie raising his fist (Tom D.), Monday, 11 March 2024 12:13 (three months ago) link
How much of a surprise are these results?
Also, I was looking at the 2022 results, and it looks like Chega's level of support with 25-34 year olds wasn't just larger than their level of support with 55+ voters, it was double - which isn't something I would have assumed at all
― anvil, Monday, 11 March 2024 12:41 (three months ago) link
Chega was predicted to hold on to its position of 3rd strongest party and to gain seats but not to this extent.
One historical particularity is in Portugal the 55+ demographic is likely to have first hand experience of having lived through a fascist dictatorship, even if only as small children.
― Daniel_Rf, Monday, 11 March 2024 12:49 (three months ago) link
The 55+ demographic in the post-soviet space varies quite a lot country to country in its relationships with previous soviet rule, which makes it not always that predictable what to expect with stuff like that
I also noticed last time around Chega did poorly in the northwest including what looks to be rural seats. And Faro was where they did best. (though thats presumably the whole Algarve not just the town), so it looks to be more than just a rural-urban divide? (though this is based off the much less pronounced 2022 results)
― anvil, Monday, 11 March 2024 13:08 (three months ago) link
Well I won't say there aren't some fash nostalgists out there, but overall ppl who lived through a fascist dictatorship during which most of the country didn't receive primary education and lived in abject poverty, not to mention a draft for an unjust and bloody colonial war, aren't keen to see that return. Kind of strange to reach for the post-soviet spaces imo, if you want a point of comparison Spain is right next to us :)
― Daniel_Rf, Monday, 11 March 2024 16:35 (three months ago) link
Spain would definitely seem a more obvious comparison, but I have almost no conception of Spain at all. It wasn't to draw a direct comparison per se, but more to note that nostalgia prevalence levels for previous autocratic regimes across Europe are pretty varied - using the post-soviet spaces as an example as something that on the surface might seem uniform but vary considerably
Anyway, presuming 24 follows a similar pattern to 22, do you know why Chega appears to do worst in the North West relative to the rest of the country
― anvil, Monday, 11 March 2024 16:49 (three months ago) link
I don't have a definitive answer to that but traditionally the North West is quite conservative, I would think local Chega candidates would have a tougher time establishing themselves against well connected centre right campaigns. I had a look and AD won handily there this time 'round, the only district where Chega got a majority was again Faro (which yes means the region not just the city).
― Daniel_Rf, Monday, 11 March 2024 19:25 (three months ago) link
Are expat “leave” Brits able to vote?
― from a prominent family of bassoon players (Boring, Maryland), Monday, 11 March 2024 20:50 (three months ago) link
The Faro stuff is interesting, because as far as I can tell tell its the district with the most pronounced population increase, and the only district outside of Lisbon and a couple of surrounding districts to be increasing at all, with population decline elsewhere (may be looking at outdated figures)
― anvil, Wednesday, 13 March 2024 05:35 (three months ago) link
although to Boring's point above an increase in the population doesnt necessarily mean an increase in population eligible to vote
― anvil, Wednesday, 13 March 2024 05:37 (three months ago) link
Also was listening to this on my run this morning, which is more broadly about the decline of the center-left across Europe post 2004, creating the space for populist parties to move into. Touches briefly on Portugal and Spain. Probably familiar material to many but was useful for me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39V5_ui0XAA
― anvil, Wednesday, 13 March 2024 05:44 (three months ago) link
thought this article on Melenchon and the other French lefty parties was interesting:
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/06/magazine/french-left-politics-melenchon.html
hope they can somehow beat Le Pen
― symsymsym, Wednesday, 13 March 2024 05:58 (three months ago) link
One thing I think I might mention is Portugal is on the whole a rather homogenous country with not that much variation in demographics, no real separatist groups, centuries old coherence in language, religion, culture - I'm from the Azores which are probably the most distant within that context and it's still nowhere near comparable to the differences I've seen within the UK, Germany, US. So granular district by district analysis might yield limited results in a forest for the trees sense.
― Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 13 March 2024 10:09 (three months ago) link
thought this article on Melenchon and the other French lefty parties was interesting:https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/06/magazine/french-left-politics-melenchon.htmlhope they can somehow beat Le Pen
― symsymsym, Wednesday, March 13, 2024 6:58 AM (four hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
Le Pen is far ahead in polls, the left coalition is a disaster and full of dissensions, France needs a figure to preserve Macron's legacy (Attal ?) but the French hate themselves too much to know what's good for them. Mélenchon will do a good score again, but under Le Pen. Yet I think the far right will be pushed back yet again, unless Marine gives Jordan Bardella his chance, which I don't think she will.
― Nabozo, Wednesday, 13 March 2024 10:43 (three months ago) link
Yes def need to preserve the glorious legacy of Macron
― Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 13 March 2024 10:47 (three months ago) link
Has there been a significant increase in 'the same damn candidates for the third election in a row' situations worldwide or does it just seem like it?
― nashwan, Wednesday, 13 March 2024 10:59 (three months ago) link
Yes def need to preserve the glorious legacy of Macron― Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, March 13, 2024 11:47 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink
Maybe I'm jaded, but I don't really expect more from politicians, and certainly nothing glorious. I see him as a center-right blueprint, and the alternatives as worse. I'm not French nor a close follower though.
― Nabozo, Wednesday, 13 March 2024 12:40 (three months ago) link
He's been steadily dogwhistling to racists, trying to stop the rise of the FN by co-optinh its rhetoric into a more socially palpable framing. He's also presided over increasingly scarier initiatives to clamp down on the right to protest and give the cops more and more leeway for using violence. Even my wife's dad, who is centre left and hates Melenchon, is disgusted with him.
Less important but the fact that there's no obvious good replacement in line for Macron is, for the man himself, a feature not a bug - he hollowed out the PS to benefit a political movement based entirely around his own cult of personality.
― Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 13 March 2024 13:08 (three months ago) link
I certainly dislike his minister of interior (Darmamin) and surely there are things to criticize, but I still think he's the most competent and likable of the French presidents I've known (counting from Chirac). The immigration bill appeared tactical and potentially a good electoral move: giving an image of toughness, letting the far-right introduce amendments, most of which will be eviscerated by the constitutional court. Anyway, I don't believe Macron is going on a right-wing drift, he's always balanced (maybe more clumsily than adroitly) between the two sides. The cult of personality thing is also a feature arguably.
― Nabozo, Thursday, 14 March 2024 08:11 (three months ago) link