We need a thread for the FARGO TV show yah? Oh, yah!

First time I think.

The whole vibe of that scene was so surreal I was initially wondering if Roy was having his own deranged fantasy cutaway bit

I think this episode did bring up one issue I have with this otherwise impeccably crafted season. Roy is depicted from the start as a broad, almost cartoonishly evil villain, but as the season has moved on it's continued spending more and more time illustrating not just his villainy but his outright sadism and brutal abuse. It just keeps getting bigger and bigger, and more and more brutal, and the amount of screen time spent doing that while all sorts of other stuff and other stories and other characters gets put on pause or shifted off to the margins ... I'm not sure what's gained, from a storytelling point of view, since we're already firmly rooting against him. That's also why the fate of Danish should have come as no surprise to anyone, let alone Danish.

Granted, the Coen Brothers (I don't really know if they have any direct involvement in this) have long been accused of a certain cruelty or meanness in their movies, but I think that reaction comes from their frequently contemptuous, or cynical, portrayals of dummies and comical fuck-ups. But Roy ... he's an odd one, broad and cartoonish at times but increasingly more stomach-churningly real in his evil than one is accustomed to in this generally pretty stylized show. It does make for some intense viewing, that's for sure (that long Toxic walk!). But imo it throws off the balance of power a little, both among the characters but also how the story is being told. He's such a monster that I'm not sure what level of ultimate comeuppance (assuming he gets one) would be satisfying. I wonder

It reminds me a bit of an issue I had with "Bad Sisters," where the murder victim (we know he's been murdered from the start) is introduced as the world's biggest asshole, but the show still spends a chunk of each episode, right up until the end, depicting him as a bigger and bigger asshole, even though his assholery was worthy of an untimely end from minute one.

Danish is going on about him and Lyon having their own reality early on in the season, I guess the point is that he's been comfortable and in control for too long and he's fundamentally incapable of seeing it coming

Roy's a tough watch in this episode (Hamm's very good!) but as much as it's about increasingly hammering home his depravity, he's also starting to overreach himself and make stupid mistakes that will presumably be his undoing. (He probably should have let her be)

A real downer of an episode, the final scene was one of the most purely grim, miserable things I can remember seeing in this show, particularly taking into account the significance of the wind turbine

Also the way they humanised Gator via the puppet scene last ep and then his and Dot's first real interaction in years ends in this hateful, venomous exchange, ouch

Maybe David Rysdahl will do some more fun unhinged Reggie Perrin type shit in e9, or the despicable Lars Olmstead will face some consequences (not holding my dang breath)

xpost re: Roy, For sure, but wasn't that always inevitable? And there are only two episodes left, too.

I do get Danish's arrogance, I suppose. He maybe doesn't (didn't) understand that Roy is not your run of the mill galoot.

There are so many loose threads that demand tying. Letting the deputy get a W. Indira getting a W. Dot (and her family) getting a W. Gator getting his L. Roy getting his L. Lars getting his L. I don't even know what fate to expect from Lorraine, who seems to have faded into the background of this particular tale. None of these things are complaints, btw, it actually makes me even more engaged. I don't foresee this season ending as down as this episode did, but that goes back to what I was saying. The emotional stakes are so high that I'm not sure how the show wraps it up. Too tidy would maybe be just as frustrating as too messy.

I mean Danish still stretched plausibility I guess, but Coen-related things are always stuffed full of characters who are permanently fixin to do something real stupid, who are then pulverised or rewarded by the universe depending on how far out of their lane they're straying.

Carson Wells never had any reason to think he wasn't the main character until he went up the wrong staircase

Yeah. Have we seen the tank yet or was that the first time it was mentioned?

It has been mentioned multiple times that he uses public funds to buy military equipment for a white militia.

Granted, the Coen Brothers (I don't really know if they have any direct involvement in this)

They have no involvement.

Chekhov's tank

Yeah I got that but was thinking more guns & RPGs or whatever than an actual fucking tank lol xp

I'm all caught up.

Seasons 1 and 2 were excellent.
3 was okay but a bit depressing.
4 not worth mentioning, jeez what a snooze.

Enjoying 5, although it is also quite depressing. Love the Dot character so much though.

This may be a stretch, but indulging in some armchair critic BS…

Tillman seems to be a MAGA-like figure, obviously, so I sort of viewed the Graves situation through that lens, since it seems deliberate that this season is set in the Trump era. Graves is a fixer, usually swinging his weight with politicos, business folks, etc. He’s used to dealing with threats to Lorraine’s interests with money, horse trading, etc. The establishment GOP thought they could “handle” Trump in 2015 but it became clear he wasn’t playing politics as usual. That was Graves’ error—he thought he could just cut a deal but didn’t realize Tillman is playing a different game, where the civil/polite rules don’t apply. Face-eating leopard party and all that.

I think Tillman won’t die, but will be arrested/convicted as a "not above the law" resolution.

We've been rewatching S1 cos the 19 y.o has only ever seen the movie and wants to see all the shows. Its great seeing the scenes with Mr Tripoli, and Numbers and Wrench, and thinking "man wait til he sees the payoff in S2".

(mind you the whole Hanzee/Tripoli thing always bugged me somewhat. I get it he had plastic surgery but turning a rangy thin native american guy into a slovenly italian mobster stretches credulity even for this show.)

Latest episode was a great tension-builder for the finale.

joe keery is great in the failson role. also a very good "game recognizes game" moment at the end of the episode between munch and dot

Munch is one of those surreal characters where I’m unsure what perspective he’s being presented from and the ambiguity is unsettling and impressive

So the show has done an excellent job of illustrating the dangers of f’in around with the wrong people. Not that it is always obvious who can and can’t be f’ed with. Might not know the house cat is actually a tiger. On the receiving end of the “finding out” have been the initial kidnappers, gator, danish the lawyer, indira’s useless husband, and the bankers Lorraine wrecked. Roy going after dot set the whole thing in motion. Tune in next week to see if Roy gets his.

Wondering if some of Tillman's guys are privately not wanting to go full "Masada" (a term he mentioned right away). Father-in-law asking if he wants to be Hitler in the Reichstag or Hitler in whatever that place was at the end.

I think that's what he asked?

Hitler in the bunker. It's just taken for granted that you'd want to be Hitler at some stage of his life, I guess.

Munch is one of those surreal characters where I’m unsure what perspective he’s being presented from and the ambiguity is unsettling and impressive
Right!? I thought he would be like Hanzee but he's way more strange - they havent really slotted him in as anything but himself, outside of the rest of the story. He almost makes me think of a greek chorus or moral correction.

Have not seen the latest/last/last night's episode because we only just yesterday caught up with episode 9, and damn, this is like one of those bands that releases three great records, then releases one really disappointing record, then bounces back with a fifth record even better than the first three. This season is as good as anything I have ever watched, I think. Just masterfully made and acted.

-9 degrees outside, soup's already made, so ready for the finale tonight.

Just watched it. Don't expect that much; you know how finales often are.

I disagree, I thought it was magnificent! Completely unexpected approach to ending a story. I loved it.

This season of Fargo is the first one of the five I've seen — enjoyed it, enough to go back to previous series, probably, eventually. (I'd avoided previous seasons, initially out of a dumb fidelity to the Coens' film, and later out of bafflement and distaste for Noah Hawley thanks to the first two seasons of Legion, which I thought were stylish bullshit. I've read a summary of Legion S3 and I'm glad I bailed when I did.)

I gotta say I liked the scene where Roy, Lifted to Power by God Himself, spits at a crucifix, spits on Jesus himself basically, right after rejecting his own son for being a weakling and a failure. Not very subtle, Noah Hawley! But the jab at America's manly men who love God the Father but think Jesus was a pussy was well taken.

A lot of well composed shots in this show. The truck stop crash/Dot's injury was impressive, I'd like to know how much of that was real and how much was CG.

Wow. Nailed it. 10/10. Loved how they barely made it about Roy and focused mostly on Dot, the survivor, and what it actually takes, mentally, emotionally, to survive. Or maybe what it even means to survive.

And WmC, while I think this may be the best season, it's not necessarily representative, despite having a lot in common with previous seasons, which are all about setting up various conflicts but, most importantly, showcasing some really excellent acting, writing and directing.

So the Queen of Debt and therefore Credit told Roy she'd made sure that he'd need that little package of---what was it?
And as Biggest Donor to the Federalist Society, who pick the biggest judges as well as the justices, she could, according to her, twitch the line and make sure his appeals are denied.
Thus balancing with Dot's cosmic family values, bringing LOVE biscuits to truly unfreeze thee Sineater in Lynchian humor, its own tradition.

But for all yall to enjoy it more than I did is good; I've just gotten cynical about/detached from so many finales. Oh well, I was mostly into this season before that.

She just gave him a packet of cigarettes, didn't she? Which is kind of default cliche prison currency. Sort of rubbing salt in the wound. Like, maybe you can trade some of these for a few days of peace.

Lots of stuff about debt in this season, and who is owed or deserves what. I'll have to think about it a little bit.

xpost Oho, that's good! Throw the old dawg a bone; she's a philanthropist too.
What and why did the Sineater consider that Dot owed him?

He thought she owed him the Sheriff’s death.

First season is still the best, 2/3/5 all interesting in their own way.

Why didn't he kill the Sheriff? Maybe because she was the one (still living) who was most sinned-against. That was why he saved her, so she could repay him by collecting from Roy?

I thought his wounded ear was the debt.

Anyway I'm happy. Glad it wasn't chili and pancakes, would have been too on the nose.

Xpost I also thought munch was wanting repayment (a pound of flesh) for his wounded ear.

Had to laugh at Dot, Wayne and Scotty just drinking beers and making biscuits with the weird undead horror guy. Looked like munch wandered from the set of a medieval movie. But it worked. And I really liked dot recognizing what was wrong and showing him a way out

U mad, first season of Legion was incredible xps

"A man...a man has a..." yeah that was high comedy. The light side of midwestern domesticity finally coming to bear.

Legion s2 was the sweet spot for me, s1 was too high on its own psychedelia and s3 was trying extremely hard to make it happen (still enjoyed it though, especially the time goblins).

Just started watching season one of this with my wife last night. We have a lot of trouble finding shows that we agree on, but we both came up with this independently, so we gave the first episode a shot. I'm very on board. She enjoyed it to an extent, but a couple of the deaths (the wife and the police chief) in the first episode were too much for her. I think it's understandable to find those upsetting, but I want to keep pushing through.

How does the rest of the series hold up as far as emotional gut-punches and brutality?

There's a fair amount of violence and death in the series but not quite that brutal.

It's pretty violent throughout, sometimes darkly comic (a la Coens), sometimes not. This season, season 5, was the first that really made me wince.

Speaking of which, pretty lame to kill the only black character in the finale

I agree, and going into the finale I actually predicted the would survive because it would be a bad look to kill him off. Also, I don't feel it worked for me because he was a tertiary character so the dramatic stakes weren't that large--like he was killed just because someone on the good guy team had to die, and folks would have cared even less about the FBI duo biting it.

Yeah, that was my thought. I get that they had to imperil a good guy for the sake of drama, but it was pretty harsh to off his character that way, to no real narrative advantage, afaict. Might have gotten some mythological mileage out of, say, having Gator stumble in and get stabbed by his dad instead.

Yeah, I mean, we've watched shows with death and violence in them. It was those two in particular where my wife was like, "I'm not sure I can see this through." Pearl Nygaard was murdered in a frightening act of deeply personal relationship violence. Vern Thurman was an expecting father who showed up at the wrong place at the wrong time. They were supposed to hit hard. I wasn't surprised, but may have been too effective for her. I might be able to convince her to come back for episode two if the whole thing isn't like that.

Oh, since I'm here and on this topic, let me just ask: any child deaths? That's definitely one of her things.

not that I recall, though there are kids in danger, IRC.