Donald Trump: Classic or Dud?

well yeah he can't testify he has a gag order put on him by a very conflicted judge

So corrupt!

Amusing note from Mitchell Epner:

I suspect that MAGA-sphere articles that hyped Costello as a “killer” witness to debunk Cohen led FPOTUS to insist that he be called as a witness.

Not calling any witnesses precludes prosecution from commenting on defense failure to present a case. But, presenting 1 witness means DA can argue it.

Further to which, as he noted earlier:

I am reading the liveblogs of the testimony of Robert Costello, who will be the lone substantive witness called by Trump's defense.

I cannot imagine how the testimony could have gone worse for the defense.

Defense knew Costello wrote emails that would undermine his testimony, but did it anyway.

b-b-b-but his emails!

This piece is a fun read:

https://statuskuo.substack.com/p/how-to-blow-your-defense

Not least for including this of Merchan and Costello:

https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/w_1456,c_limit,f_webp,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fc15c0aa9-ae7c-4d03-8b9c-c2d68bcf5624_660x371.webp

Jonathan Turley:

Quite frankly, Costello is a killshot witness. You only call him if you want to killshot at trial, that you feel that you need to make sure this doesn't result in a conviction, even though I think it's going very well for the defense. And it went very well today for the defense.

lol Turley is such a clown

that hard-hitting science from the Orgone Institute

Great book. Goes increasingly off the rails as it progresses though - a bit like Wilhelm himself.

Isn't Turlet a "constitutional scholar" and not a trial lawyer?

he's a killshot pundit

They think that all politicians are crooks and cheats. If you say Trump is a swindler they'll say "They're ALL crooked! At least he's honest about it!"

Like sorry, I don’t trust ANY politician, down to city council members in minor backwaters. You have to have a certain amount of toxic narcissism in order to want to do that kind of work, which partly explains why most decent people don’t want to get into politics

otmfm

I get that, but tbh I spend a LOT of time talking to local/state politicians and watching them in action, and there are really quite a few who try to do their jobs diligently and are not in it for whatever minor power or celebrity you get from being a local official. (There are also quite a few who very much are into the minor power and celebrity, getting invited to lunches and ribbon-cutting and all that shit, no doubt.)

There are people who even when I disagree with them philosophically or pragmatically are doing the legitimate work of considering complex issues and trying to come up with good solutions. So I try to not be cynical about them as a class, because we actually need decent reasonable people in those positions.

EXCEPT FOR: the fucking Republican state Legislature, they are the absolute WORST, craven and corrupt and cruel. Even the "sane" ones go along with all kinds of unconscionable shit.

the diligent ones are just as bad sorry. oh it looks like i've reached my daily politics post quota, have a good one.

lol.

Well, they're not, what can I say. That's just a silly thing to say. Having good people in those positions can make a huge difference in what gets done or doesn't, what gets prioritized, etc. That is, as long as we're going to have representative government. If we're going to get rid of representative government, fine, but in whatever comes after, it will still matter whether you have decent thoughtful people in any kind of decision-making process.

Like sorry, I don’t trust ANY politician, down to city council members in minor backwaters. You have to have a certain amount of toxic narcissism in order to want to do that kind of work, which partly explains why most decent people don’t want to get into politics

― butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table)

I don't mind a little toxic narcissism if it gets the job done -- like salt. Somebody has to do it. "Trust" is another matter.

I realized a while ago that my political disagreements with table and others on this board often came down to the fact that I believe that most Democratic politicians (and even some Republicans!) are trying to improve people's lives and work for the common good, even if their ability to do so is often constrained by structural weaknesses in the political system.

"Most," who knows, it's kind of hard to quantify. But in my direct lived experience, there are many at least. I know a bunch of them, they're just normal people, some affluent but many not, mostly with community service work of some kind in their backgrounds.

table has said elsewhere that he votes in local races. Okay! Tipsy's referring to local politicians.

xp Yeah, probably not worth nitpicking exact numbers. But I can't believe that they are all worthless scum.

Re local politicians, everyone starts somewhere. I suppose getting elected to higher office starts to corrupt people, but not entirely.

fwiw I help with the most local of local races: tax collector, Miami Springs council person, school board. The money is shit, the glory non-existent.

Yeah, at the local level around here, they make like $25k a year for a job that can definitely be full-time if you do it well, and 75 percent of their work is fairly mind-numbing parsing of details around things like parking and zoning. I respect the ones who take it seriously, which is not all of them but is some of them. And few of them have many options to "move up" even if they want to, there aren't that many spots to move up into.

I think there's a lot of decent people in politics who really do want to make things better and try to do things the right away, hell I even know some right-leaning folks in local governments who I think do a good job, maybe because their jobs are 99% administrative stuff and have nothing to do with idiotic culture wars

to get this back on topic it really does look like the defense had nothing, seems impossible to argue Trump didn't know about the payments and as that above Substack notes Trump was obsessed with polls so arguing it was done to protect his "family" is silly as well, also seems like the prosecution was much more well put together and professional than the defense, which I think juries do pay attention to. so now it's all kinda dependent on everything somehow getting reclassified as a misdemeanor, or a rogue juror causing a mistrial, though idk how likely either one of those are. if he gets convicted of 34 felonies what happens next? surely it can't just be a slap on the wrist. I mean Cohen was sentenced to 3 years just for taking part in this.

if he gets convicted of 34 felonies what happens next?

yeah maybe PBKR can explain this to me, aren't they just going to appeal and keep kicking it down the road?

idk if they can appeal past the election, and having a sentence handed down in September or October would be a total disaster. also don't most people have to sit in jail waiting for their appeals? obviously the rules are always gonna be different for Trump but idk if anyone's ever been found guilty of 34 felonies and just walked

lots of people have gone to jail for work they did for trump. alan weisselberg is in rikers now.

Depends on the felonies, on nonviolent charges where they don't think there's a flight risk, you can often get out on bond while the appeal's pending. Probably depends on state law, and I don't know New York's — but I'm guessing the state that's home to Wall Street and all its white-collar defendants allows bail pending appeal.

he's going to bail jump, then show up at the Presidential debate

you do have to go to jail until a judge sets bail though, right?

Not necessarily. For one thing, he might not be going to jail at all, there's no certitude that he's actually looking at time behind bars with or without an appeal.

Out on bail, fresh outta jail, Mar a Lago dreamin'

Couldnt the judge just call him a flight risk and put him in jail bc DT has been a dick thru the entire proceedings? It’s still state charges not federal.

Like the jury “doesnt know” what’s been going on outside the courthouse but the judge absolutely knows and knows how DT is going to react to the verdict as being illigitmate or whatever

Trump has returned with members of his entourage, including his oldest son, Donald Trump Jr.; Chuck Zito, the former Hells Angel leader and actor; and the actor Joe Piscopo.

I'm guessing he thinks Joe is actually Sinatra.

Would be hilarious if Trump wins the election while he’s hiding out in Abkhazia or something

https://arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-bostonglobe.s3.amazonaws.com/public/EJW445BQWII6JPULJW5VPSFJ2E.jpg

TAKE BACK JOE PISCOPO

what happened to that thing where Trump was going to have to publicly declare he wasn't going to testify

Mechan strikes me as capable of dealing with what is both a normal courtroom situation, i.e a guilty verdict is returned on numerous felony charges against a defendant, and an unprecedented situation, i.e. the defendant is a former president and presumed presidential nominee of a major party. One way or another he'll find a suitable path that recognizes both realities. It's a byproduct of The Judicial Temperament.

Predictably, that 'suitable path' will probably anger or dismay large swathes of the politically active among us.

Gotta say this trial has already been way more fun than I expected it to be. When the charges were first filed I read a lot of naysaying about how basically it wasn't going to amount to much, it was a tendentious reading of the law etc etc. Which may be true and he definitely might not get convicted. But he's clearly suffered personally from this, and maybe politically, and anyway it's been kind of a grand time. So if he walks, or is convicted but only wrist-slapped, whatever, I already feel like the effort has been worth it.

yeah maybe PBKR can explain this to me, aren't they just going to appeal and keep kicking it down the road?

― I painted my teeth (sleeve), Tuesday, May 21, 2024 1:29 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

Not a criminal lawyer (thank god), but I would presume Trump will be out walking around on appeal until near election day. NY has pretty lenient bail now (thank god) for these kinds of non-violent offenses and Trump is not a flight risk (until November, ha ha).

He can automatically be appealing to the Supreme Court, Appellate Division, 1st Dept, which is the NY intermediate appellate court that has jurisdiction over Manhattan. Not sure if criminal is different but that can easily take 3-6 months on the civil side. Assuming he loses there, he can appeal to the NY Court of Appeals (NY State equivalent of US Supreme Court), but they do not have to take the case (though maybe they will want to be bigshots, idk).

be appealingappeal

what I'm curious about is, assuming he wins, what power exactly does he have to quash this and the other trials he has pending?

The two federal trials he can ask the DOJ to stop. Georgia, not so much. (And while he's not been charged in Arizona or Michigan, all his toadies are currently facing things there too.)

State court trials, probably little. Federal court trials, probably some.

In the latter case, quash would be more like continued delay + replace prosecutors = dies a slow death, rather than literal quash.

Knowing Trump though, he is just going to want to wave a wand on inauguration day and have all the cases magically disappear and when he finds out he can't do that is going to create more trouble for himself trying to accomplish that in the dumbest, most obvious way possible.

should he win i suspect he will persuade georgia to make its course go away, new york's appeal will be stayed until he's dead. i don't know how that'll happen but but but

he's going to bail jump, then show up at the Presidential debate

― Iacocca Cola (Neanderthal), Tuesday, May 21, 2024 12:58 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

Where bail bondsmen will be waiting, one hopes.

We're taking a short break. Trump leaves the courtroom, carrying a pile of printouts and what appears to be a copy of The New York Times. His entourage follows.

"You see what this PBKR character's been posting?"