You mean, a great filmmaker? ;)
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 1 July 2005 16:43 (nineteen years ago) link
― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Friday, 1 July 2005 16:44 (nineteen years ago) link
Ah, sorry, didn't skim down that far.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 1 July 2005 16:45 (nineteen years ago) link
No, that's not what I meant.
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 1 July 2005 16:46 (nineteen years ago) link
― jocelyn (Jocelyn), Friday, 1 July 2005 16:46 (nineteen years ago) link
(I can't remember the last time I enjoyed a Spielberg movie, he just has terrible ideas.)
― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 1 July 2005 16:47 (nineteen years ago) link
I mean if ever a subject was made NOT to be handled by a Spielberg-type filmmaker, I would think this one would be it.
Alex OTM
― Baby BobO (nordicskilla), Friday, 1 July 2005 16:48 (nineteen years ago) link
Since SS made the best Hollywood treatment to date of slavery... (I realize "Amistad" wasn't inventive cinema like "SpiderMan 2.")
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 1 July 2005 16:49 (nineteen years ago) link
― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 1 July 2005 16:50 (nineteen years ago) link
― larry bundgee (bundgee), Friday, 1 July 2005 16:51 (nineteen years ago) link
― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 1 July 2005 16:52 (nineteen years ago) link
― jocelyn (Jocelyn), Friday, 1 July 2005 16:52 (nineteen years ago) link
― larry bundgee (bundgee), Friday, 1 July 2005 16:53 (nineteen years ago) link
this sounds like a really interesting project to me.
― ryan (ryan), Friday, 1 July 2005 16:53 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 1 July 2005 16:54 (nineteen years ago) link
― ryan (ryan), Friday, 1 July 2005 16:55 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 1 July 2005 16:56 (nineteen years ago) link
― jones (actual), Friday, 1 July 2005 16:57 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 1 July 2005 16:57 (nineteen years ago) link
― Baby BobO (nordicskilla), Friday, 1 July 2005 16:57 (nineteen years ago) link
― jocelyn (Jocelyn), Friday, 1 July 2005 16:58 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 1 July 2005 16:58 (nineteen years ago) link
― Baby BobO (nordicskilla), Friday, 1 July 2005 16:58 (nineteen years ago) link
They were asleep by the end! Give 'em a break!
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 1 July 2005 16:59 (nineteen years ago) link
Actually that's really the only danger here.
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 1 July 2005 17:00 (nineteen years ago) link
actually the two projects have merged, along with nora ephron's "you've got anthrax!"
― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Friday, 1 July 2005 17:01 (nineteen years ago) link
xp
― Baby BobO (nordicskilla), Friday, 1 July 2005 17:01 (nineteen years ago) link
I think Alex is confusing Steve S with Ridley "In space no one can hear you snore" Scott!
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 1 July 2005 17:01 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 1 July 2005 17:01 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 1 July 2005 17:02 (nineteen years ago) link
― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Friday, 1 July 2005 17:03 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 1 July 2005 17:04 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 1 July 2005 17:05 (nineteen years ago) link
― Gear! (Ill Cajun Gunsmith) (Gear!), Friday, 1 July 2005 17:05 (nineteen years ago) link
― giboyeux (skowly), Friday, 1 July 2005 17:05 (nineteen years ago) link
― Baby BobO (nordicskilla), Friday, 1 July 2005 17:05 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 1 July 2005 17:06 (nineteen years ago) link
― Baby BobO (nordicskilla), Friday, 1 July 2005 17:07 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 1 July 2005 17:08 (nineteen years ago) link
That's probably true. Still: if it's a mess, then that's just incentive for someone else to tackle the subject a few years down the line and make a better one. This is neither the first nor the last film that will be made about Munich.
― giboyeux (skowly), Friday, 1 July 2005 17:08 (nineteen years ago) link
― Chuck_Tatum (Chuck_Tatum), Friday, 1 July 2005 17:09 (nineteen years ago) link
There's nothing wrong with it per se, particularly when its in the service to a larger vision - but here the controversy IS the vision. I don't see any reason for this film to exist apart from its value to Spielberg as an attention-getter. Where is the story in this film, why does it need to be told? where is the conflict, where are the characters?
"who would be a better director for this project and why?"
well I offered a different tack upthread (which I would personally be more interested in seeing but hey, I like allegories). To make this subject interesting and able to stand on its own apart from its historical sources, the story would have to be re-contextualized beyond its already well-established global political framework of Israeli violence vs. Palestinian suffering. I can't think of a better director off-hand - someone deft enough to keep the politics in the background and a compelling story/plot/characters up front... I'm sure there's someone but I'm drawing blanks...
― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 1 July 2005 17:09 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 1 July 2005 17:09 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 1 July 2005 17:12 (nineteen years ago) link
One might presume, from Kushner's hiring -- to remove the pure-white hat the Israeli government wears in the eyes of a large chunk of the US population?
To say certain events don't have a film story in them is awfully sweeping. The approach is everything.
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 1 July 2005 17:13 (nineteen years ago) link
― giboyeux (skowly), Friday, 1 July 2005 17:13 (nineteen years ago) link
― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Friday, 1 July 2005 17:14 (nineteen years ago) link
― stevie (stevie), Friday, 1 July 2005 17:14 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 1 July 2005 17:15 (nineteen years ago) link
― Eric H. (Eric H.), Monday, 5 June 2006 22:40 (eighteen years ago) link
― Eric H. (Eric H.), Monday, 5 June 2006 22:41 (eighteen years ago) link
Like this guy?http://www.jewishxpress.com/issue28/images/abba.jpg
― tokyo nursery school: afternoon session (rosemary), Tuesday, 6 June 2006 00:15 (eighteen years ago) link
I'm never going to get this out of my head.
― milo z (mlp), Tuesday, 6 June 2006 03:23 (eighteen years ago) link
I'll take that over three over-indulgent hours of Spielberg just based on which will damage me less, but it still wasn't better than 'kinda good.'
― milo z (mlp), Tuesday, 6 June 2006 03:27 (eighteen years ago) link
― chaki (chaki), Tuesday, 6 June 2006 03:28 (eighteen years ago) link
Give me the risk of ridiculousness over competent, unadventurous "McCarthy was evil" pandering with a jazz-sampler soundtrack anytime.
The John Williams score was way above average as I scarcely noticed it.
btw, Munich was gratuitously pilloried in the NY Times Book Review this week (the film criticism anthology) for being "written by people who don't know half enough about politics." (Was it Clive James, or Tombot ghosting?) I don't think Tony Kushner is always right, but he's more than half-on.
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 6 June 2006 12:35 (eighteen years ago) link
That was one of the best parts of the movie, that entire mini-arc. It was the bit that I thought most did something interesting with how violence develops and where it can lead, so to speak.
I still kind of feel like a lot of the final act belonged to a different film. The music becomes more intrusive, the pacing completely changes, there's a lot more "O RLY?" moments in the visuals...I dunno.
The problem for me with it is that, you know, I accept a lot of ridiculousness (I mean this film would've definitely been improved by Magneto's presence), but it just depends on the kind of ridiculous I guess, and when a filmmaker I dislike starts doing the kind of thing I totally, totally expect them to do after 2 hours+ of actually doing something I think is well above-par for him...it makes it easier to pick apart flaws in the superior first acts, leaves a bad taste. Everyone's got that director so I'm not saying anything particularly world-shattering here.
awful sex scene vs. unnecessary jazz interludes
The music was totally unnecessary and got annoying after a while. It was cute the first time, like watching old tv, here's the little interlude but after 6 times it was kind of like PLZ stop.
I don't understand propping or knocking either GNGL or Munich on the basis of making daring or fresh political statements, because neither does.
― Allyzay Rofflesbot (allyzay), Tuesday, 6 June 2006 14:32 (eighteen years ago) link
i dont really want to watch it again. but it struck me as a viscerally disturbing tour through the moral wasteland of the 20th century. use that as your pull quote!
― ryan (ryan), Tuesday, 6 June 2006 14:47 (eighteen years ago) link
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 6 June 2006 14:51 (eighteen years ago) link
― s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 6 June 2006 14:51 (eighteen years ago) link
The thing about Munich's lathering up of the Likud/neocon crowd is that it really doesn't take MUCH to lather them up--just suggesting that any of Israel's actions were anything other than completely justified and right.
― Jessie the Monster (scarymonsterrr), Tuesday, 6 June 2006 14:54 (eighteen years ago) link
A bold suggestion! Never before has it been made! You realize that right-wing pundits have gone all foamy at the mouth over GNGL daring to suggest the controversial idea that witch-hunts are bad, right?
So, I say it again:I don't understand propping or knocking either GNGL or Munich on the basis of making daring or fresh political statements, because neither does.
Getting someone's panties in a wad does not equal making a daring or fresh political statement that is unusual in film (even other fairly well-known films). Neither film should be judged on its merits as a political statement. Ryan is OTM regarding human condition; Munich is a film about the nature of violence and revenge.
― Allyzay Rofflesbot (allyzay), Tuesday, 6 June 2006 14:59 (eighteen years ago) link
― Allyzay Rofflesbot (allyzay), Tuesday, 6 June 2006 15:04 (eighteen years ago) link
― Jessie the Monster (scarymonsterrr), Tuesday, 6 June 2006 15:05 (eighteen years ago) link
― TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Tuesday, 6 June 2006 15:18 (eighteen years ago) link
― TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Tuesday, 6 June 2006 15:20 (eighteen years ago) link
"I've heard this forest is full of dragons"*woosh of flame, flap of wings sound*"Do you think that might have been a dragon?" - in other movies, this is called comic relief, but Spielberg thinks it is necessary, because he thinks that all of us are in the 2nd grade.
― TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Tuesday, 6 June 2006 15:25 (eighteen years ago) link
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 6 June 2006 15:36 (eighteen years ago) link
― o. nate (onate), Tuesday, 6 June 2006 15:40 (eighteen years ago) link
― Allyzay Rofflesbot (allyzay), Tuesday, 6 June 2006 15:41 (eighteen years ago) link
The reason I thought the film was middling was because I didn't feel it was as successful as several other thematically similar films I've seen on expressing the human consequence of violence escalation and revenge in a public setting. If I was judging the film as a geopolitical thriller, I'd give it higher marks actually!
― Allyzay Rofflesbot (allyzay), Tuesday, 6 June 2006 15:47 (eighteen years ago) link
in other words, yeah it's about violence and revenge, but it's not trying to be Aeschylus.
― ryan (ryan), Tuesday, 6 June 2006 15:50 (eighteen years ago) link
I was shaking at the end of the film, feeling mournful and depressed in a way that wasn't touched by A History of Violence, to name a stylistically dissimilar film that trivialized the Cycle of Slaughter theme.
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 6 June 2006 16:34 (eighteen years ago) link
Interesting comparison in terms of themes, that one didn't occur to me at all (insert joke about immemorability here). Even down to the contrasting semi-bookend sex scenes being used to illustrate the downward spiral!
― Allyzay Rofflesbot (allyzay), Tuesday, 6 June 2006 22:07 (eighteen years ago) link
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 6 June 2006 22:15 (eighteen years ago) link
― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Tuesday, 6 June 2006 22:16 (eighteen years ago) link
Haha this doesn't explain anything to me! ;)
― Allyzay Rofflesbot (allyzay), Tuesday, 6 June 2006 22:19 (eighteen years ago) link
― milo z (mlp), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 00:24 (eighteen years ago) link
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 00:26 (eighteen years ago) link
― chaki (chaki), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 00:32 (eighteen years ago) link
― gear (gear), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 02:30 (eighteen years ago) link
― gear (gear), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 02:32 (eighteen years ago) link
Ed Harris and William Hurt were definitely the best parts of the movie; I think part of the reason the film ultimately left me cold was that I just didn't like Viggo and wifey at all. AHOV does a fantastic job atmosphere building, Harris esp. is totally creepy and tense-creating.
― Allyzay Rofflesbot (allyzay), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 03:03 (eighteen years ago) link
― chaki (chaki), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 04:22 (eighteen years ago) link
The relationship (esp the sexual) b/w Viggo and Maria Bello was the most compelling part of the movie.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 11:47 (eighteen years ago) link
No, I don't want to see a 90-minute "earth not flat" film either.
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 12:29 (eighteen years ago) link
It is thoroughly possible that my dislike for Viggo (and Eric Bana, for that matter, they kind of are similar in my mind) colors perceptions here!
otm on score.
― Allyzay Rofflesbot (allyzay), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 12:59 (eighteen years ago) link
Munich shows that the international death industry, presumably motivated by nationalism and securing the primal hearth, is actually just a big unstoppable economy (feeding families like "Papa" Michel Lonsdale's).
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 13:05 (eighteen years ago) link
I liked that angle and the interactions with the family but I was half expecting Papa to come down with a heart attack during the idyllic countryside dinner sequence. Some of the shots were soooo similar, I am half curious if it was purposeful because of the inevitable comparison that would be made there regardless.
― Allyzay Rofflesbot (allyzay), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 13:10 (eighteen years ago) link
What a film -- my first viewing since 2006.
― recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 30 April 2019 02:22 (five years ago) link
Spielberg had a pretty interesting run in the oughts: AI/Minority Report/Catch Me If You Can/War of the Worlds/Munich. (Didn’t see The Terminal)
― Conceptualize Wyverns (latebloomer), Tuesday, 30 April 2019 02:34 (five years ago) link