"... and they'll be dancing in the streets of Skopje tonight ..."

Sven should take note that playing a Leeds style 4-3-3 doesn't work for Leeds either! But really, England had enough chances to win. It must be the end for Seaman now, it's a shame.

Away matches in Macedonia and Turkey are going to be very tense, and if England don't sort out the defence then it's not looking good. Obviously, if England don't qualify for Euro 2004 then it's bye bye Sven, and finishing second in the group will not win him much grace.

Simon Davies = cool, he plays for Spurs you know.

Sven selects the wrong players.

Matty Taylor for England !

Russ Hoult for England !

Darren Huckerby for England !

Nigel Quashie for England !

Peter Crouch for England !

Jason Crowe for England !

are you sure Martian? Why not pick Jason Euell?

Gary O' Neil for England !

It was entirely the fault of Seaman and Campbell - yet another reason to hate Arsenal.

Simon Davies = yet another reason to love Spurs!

Lee Bradbury for England !

Rory Allen for England !

Courtney Pitt for England !

Never play at the Skip of St Mary's Again !

paul Merson for England?

YES

When Matt Jansen is back fit - he should start !

I am being serious with Matty Taylor !

Taylor is the second best crosser in England - pinpoint accuracy and lightning quick - Merse rates him the second best left wing back in world.

Is Merse back on the booze?

I think Seaman must have had a brandy or two before the game.

where r the ENGLISH ILXOR's tonite ?

A Jock (Alan Hansen) speaks on tonight's Match

I zapped between the England + Dutch game (0-3 win away in Vienna). The contrast in styles was striking. The Dutch stroking the ball around on the ground, comfortable on the ball, keeping possession for long periods. England stringing very few passes together, the ball frequently in the air. Lots of effort, little finesse .

Why is Sven so loyal to Seamen?

Becoz Sven has been too busy shooting his Semen whilst "playing away" - that he has taken his eyes off the Ball to notice that Seamen cannot perform anymore!

Some of us English are too pissed off to want to talk about it. Dismal stuff. Why could we play so well against Argentina, demolish a pretty good European nation like Denmark, but now barely scrape 4 points against Slovakia and Macedonia? It is very distressing.

English fans from the Blue & White half of Bristol coming out of the St Mary's skip tonite - "It's just like watching Bristol Rovers" - NO it's even worse than GASHEADS!

Tip..Stay away from the Clifton Suspension Bridge.

Stevo's point is URGENT and KEY, I think: even when Holland don't qualify for the World Cup, their quality of football is just so much more consistent.

and what of the Irish team that kicked Holland off the park (cheeky)and, indeed, out of the World Cup not so long ago? 2-1 at home to Switzerland. will McCarthy stay?

england just *aren't that good*, it's simple. the manager is decidedly average, too. regarding the goalkeeper problem, we won't have a decent keeper between the sticks until chris kirkland starts playing regularly for the reds. it's our fault, we have the two best keepers in the prem. sorry.

If only Kasey Keller were English! We'd be world beaters!

Last night was dispiriting - we just seem to find new banana skins virtually every match.

Seaman - yes, time to go. I do feel that the level of the criticism is a little harsh. Speaking as an ex-goalie there is a sort of blind spot in the top back corner which is very difficult to reach if an inswinging corner comes in at pace. To minimise the danger you have to be a couple of yards further towards the back post for inswingers so that everything happens in front of you. Seaman was too far across, but the corner was absolutely perfect. Also where was the man on the back post (should have been Neville).

The second goal was a worse mistake IMHO. Campbell had ages to trap or clear properly and did neither.

We also didn't seem to be able to adapt or think on our feet. Why does Gerrard continually hit long balls when the defence is deep, especially with two small forwards? Good sides can see when they need to keep posession and wait for opportunities rather than giving the ball away. We should have been fit enough and skilful enough to do that. The finishing was poor too - Smith had three golden opportunities and should've scored one at least.

On the plus side - I thought Bridge did OK, and at least got the ball in from the left more quickly than we've managed in the past. Scholes looks better in the centre, and I like Smith. If he can keep his head, I think he'll settle down and score goals at Int. level.

Hey hey hey, my country just kicked some Swedish arse! doesn't anyone *care*??

Chris do you think the way I said to you last week I thought we'd lose may have had a negative effect?

What a dreadful performance, reminded me of us circa the end of the Charlton era, unable to create anything approaching a good chance.

Is McCarthy now under pressure Ronan?

Yep, very much so. Well, there are news stories about McCarthy asserting his desire to stay and the team "rallying behind him", always a bad sign....

To be honest I sided with Mick through the whole Roy Keane thing and I think he did a fantastic job up until very recently but it's time to go. His loyalty to some players has simply not been repaid in their performances and yet he persists with them bullishly even when there are obvious replacements. I think McCarthy should resign, and even if we have to write off the current campaign we can get the squad in order for the next World Cup. I don't want to mention the K word but I guess he'd be a massive advantage aswell.

Possible replacements? O'Leary, lets hope not. Martin O'Neill is unlikely but we can always dream.

To be honest I sided with Mick through the whole Roy Keane thing and I think he did a fantastic job up until very recently but it's time to go.

up until getting knocked out of the world cup by spain on penalties which was like two games ago when mccarthy was a hero. be honest, ronan, ireland minus mccarthy = ireland plus roy keane. that's why you and probably 80% of ireland really want him out and that's why he'll go sooner rather than later.

He wasn't a hero after the World Cup! People still just loved Roy Keane. He's messed up two easy games and there's such a constant cloud of controversy around everything he does now following the World Cup. Sometimes, in football Clive, you have to take responsibility and "bite the bullet" etc, Mick did a fantastic job but he has to go now. There's no point sticking with him just for the sake of it when the likelihood is if he leaves in a year it's the same situation just a few more games played.

I agree though yeah, up until the last two games he did amazingly and never really got the credit for it, possibly because of Roy Keane. Look at the qualifiers, who'd have thought we were going to get out of that group! Just time to wipe the slate clean. I've yet to talk to anyone here who doesn't think he should leave, but none of these have slated him either mind.

if it's a choice between a (slightly above) average manager or a great (though overrated) player then i think we know where most fans' loyalties would lie.

I know but it's not even like that, it's stupid the way after the Keane thing people acted as if Roy Keane had been the only reason we got to the World Cup, and not McCarthy. I mean haven't they ever seen a team do shit with lots of good players. It's just hero worship making people think you can disrupt the entire structure of manager being above players. It's not a choice even now, forgetting Keane, McCarthy still should go.

i think McCarthy should stay - who's gonna replace him anyway? (i may be using this argument with Sven in a few months as well!) - i dont like the way Ireland have played probably their two toughest games in the group first and this hasnt helped them - the Swiss made a good start so they had a natural momentum going into the away match...maybe it doesnt matter that much but if Ireland had played Georgia at home first and then the Swiss away it might be a different story

Switzerland at home doesn't strike me as a terribly difficult match.

and they were missing super-stef, too.

Peter Crouch for England !
-- DJ Martian (altmartinu...), October 16th, 2002.

I woz right !

finally...

it was a stupid suggestion back when you made it, martian.

In the next decade will:

Gary O'Neil - current England U21 Captain - get a full England cap?

no

ha jealous of Pompey talent ! I will be updating this thread smugly when it happens.

Ha, who needs to Sven to spot footballing talent - he only follows what the newspaper hacks say e.g Downing, S W-P, Andrew Johnson

Peter Crouch tallest player ever to be in the England Squad?

possibly. but i'm sure kevin francis would have got the call if you had your way back in the day, martian.