Star Wars 8 shit talk

lol roger you just named all the star wars movies asides from the prequels. not that i disagree w you

― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Friday, December 29, 2017

right. 3 movies. no books. no games. no tv specials. no extended universe anything. and no fan prequels. and no "a new hope"

Am I imagining/misremembering that Johnson originally had a different ending in mind and sold Disney on the one that's in the movie?

yeah originally Luke actually goes to Crait for real instead of being a holoprojection and as he's walking out a Bantha comes and eats him

I honestly don't understand why anyone who liked ANY of the previous Star Wars movies would dislike this one.

Was thinking about this the other day. Star Wars is literally my first memory (I was three or four in California, might have been the 1978 victory re-release, back when they did that sort of stuff, Darth Vader scared me and my dad had to take me out of the theatre, but I recovered for the next screening), and like anyone that age loved the Star Wars movies, collected the toys and stuff. I don't recall any real emotional affinity for them, though, and when they brought the series back I first went (to the "special edition" re-releases and then the prequels) out of a sense of quasi-professional obligation, and left thinking man, I never want to see any of those six movies ever again. So I saw TFA curious what my two kids would think of a Star Wars movie that synched up with their more contemporary minded age/tastes/expectations, and their reaction helped me answer Dan's (legit) question.

Anyway: my kids saw the (non-SE) OT but formed no real connections to the story (as such), and so didn't get anything out of the new SW movies that they didn't get from, say, Guardians of the Galaxy. I think it's that the original Star Wars and its sequels helped define a certain kind of epic FX blockbuster, and every epic blockbuster since then has been riffing on it, to degrees. So (to my mind) the only unique element of the new movies was an expansion of the soap opera mythology, since every other blockbuster has been otherwise steeped in the technical/style side of Star Wars. But at the same time, as we've discussed here, these movies (and particularly this movie) doesn't do much to expand or advance the mythology in an interesting way so much as shut it down, but I don't think the stories or characters are strong enough to stand on their own outside of the broader Star Wars continuum. Which left me (or we, including the one of my daughters that even wanted to see the new one) with just another big budget echo of the original Star Wars, another jumble of loosely assembled scenes with big set pieces but none (or little) of the charm of, say, the most recent Thor, or either GotG. And when this one aimed for that style anyway, it felt awkward and desperate, like a facsimile or fraud (which is kind of an extreme term).

Now, I don't know if anyone can do *better* than the new SW films, but that's a different question. I do know I got dragged to see the new Jumanji yesterday, which was .... workmanlike if fleetingly charming and lead me to talk to my kid about the differences and similarities between a soft reboot and a sequel and anyway, that's the sort of blockbuster movie world we live in today, one in which the new Star Wars is firmly nestled.

I think it's a slower, set piece-r, less comic booky, more consciously SRS and unintentionally annoyingly adolescent version of the good star wars flicks and therefore sits comfortably with the prequels.

^assuming yr talking about Jumanji

in all seriousness tho, I'm watching the prequels as we speak and...yeah, no.

Imo this movie’s standout contribution to the shared universe was, in the space of the “reach out” montage, resetting the Force and its Light and Dark sides to the distinctly Taoist, non-values-based version of the idea that it really should’ve been all along. I doubt the last movie will do anything so bold as to subvert the “good vs evil” plotting that drives these things but the interlude where it’s made clear that the Force’s two sides simply are, and that power and strength are destructive no matter the side, made me happy. It almost felt like a message.

7-y-o me was definitely taken with, and flummoxed by, the lightsaber battle in empire, when vader's basically like bring it on luke! the madder you get at me, the more i win!

now that i have kids of my own of course that scene makes a lot more sense. the madder i get, the more i lose indeed

What I love about that Empire lightsaber duel -- the best in any of the films, prequel or not -- is how Vader evolves from a cool customer parrying blows with one hand to a infuriated monster in the last third who wants to cut Luke down.

otm

plus there's actual choreography, not the garbage fogey battle of ANH

was thinking how in the new one Luke would probably prefer to hang with his ghost dad than ghost Yoda.

these films are engaging the prequels very very carefully. i suspect tho that if the christensen-on-vader digital trickery (and christensen's performance) weren't so famously hated, that they'd at least consider roping him in for a scene.

yoda scene was cute. and as in the r2 scene, hamill genuinely sells the happiness at seeing an old familiar face. but the "cgi look" in his first few shots was if anything worse on the second viewing.

R2 playing back the original Leia recording really got me

I think I asked earlier, but do we ever see R2 again after that scene? Is he just being sad in some corner of the Falcon the rest of the movie?

Why was Yoda acting like the fake persona he uses to dissuade Luke in Empire? Just for old times sake?

always took all aspects of yoda to be legitimate sides of himself. he's seven hundred years old, you can accumulate a lot personality, ask any grandpa.

trickster Yoda helps telegraph the theme of being subversive and new through poorly re-created scenes taken from 40 year old movies

most of the humor in this movie worked for me but i'm so sick of "subverting moments of high drama" as a joke genre in blockbusters. thinking specifically of the poe/hux holding scene. it's such easy, lazy writing. let good and evil and high operatic drama exist without acknowledging that it's all silly for once ffs.

hux is inherently hilarious though, is the thing

totally but having one character do something silly and bombastic and another character basically look at the camera in response to it undermines the movie for the sake of a laugh i think. hux getting force-blown aside by ren towards the end was great though.

the marvel movies basically run on this joke formula and even though they're much more self aware it gets old by the third time in the first 10 minutes of the movie.

I enjoy Gleeson in the role but I also think there's something to be said for the more understated humor from the old pro British actors that showed up in ESB and a bit in ROTJ. The former one was the only SW film that spent any *quality* time from the perspective of the non-force Empire and I think quietly enriched it. gleeson is more in line with the obnoxious and arrogant Death Star admirals from ANH.

there are obviously good jokes in ESB too, but some of the Poe stuff comes a bit close to the Marvel humor/dreamworks raised eyebrow stuff.

it was a fine bit, but def a bit from a different movie. made me think specifically of this...

https://youtu.be/E4LBIs87F68

er, this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4LBIs87F68

making the evil british guy a ginger is good. imo

Humor was very much akin to this, one of the stupidest/funniest things ever:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rl6OjLH7W5k

Also, for anyone who missed it on the Oasis thread, this was ace:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vd3s1Jc6js

he is clumsy as he is stupid

Gleason does an amazing job of never seeming like he’s forcing comedy while acting as if he really believes he’s grandiose, it’s beautiful

The slap is awesome

overall I liked it
stuff with Luke was affecting
too long but I swear to God I haven't seen a big budget sci find/comic book movie in years that I didn't think could stand to cut at least 30 (Peter Jackson has so much to answer for)
the casino shit was terrible, felt flown in from the prequels
not everything landed but it felt quirky and sort of odd in a way that reminded me of the first trilogy, which one of the other new ones have

I'd muted everything on Twitter and not gone on this thread, but heard people were furious about this? why?

English think Irish empire guy is a comment on brexit

xpost Because the idea that Luke's years of experience, devestation and loss might have changed him didn't seem to resonate with a bunch of whiners who apparently have never experienced that themselves.

+ Mark Hamill

Dave station 4

oh wow ok I'd kept pretty spoiler and discourse free and Luke being the major complaint wouldn't have been one of my top 10 guesses

xpost The Stations of the Force?

Luke's years of devastation and loss were boiled down to "so I was in a tent one night and decided to kill my nephew"

Like, I dug lukes character in this and hammill was far better than hoped, but the plot that got us here is treated with laughable contempt imo

Luke's years of devastation and loss were boiled down to "so I was in a tent one night and decided to kill my nephew"

Ya gotta start *somewhere*

Anyway I'm off to see this for the second time in about an hour -- which means I know where to time my bathroom break this time around (the meet-cute with Benicio del Toro or whatever you want to call it).

darragh I know u are Highlander but in American trying to kill your own nephew is kind of a big deal

Quick question

After death of solo, is it the feeling around the place that we care an awful lot about the Skywalker's compared to the newer characters from TFA

I kinda don't but may be an outlier. Just think TFA established a good chance at a clean break that still paid due homage, and was disappointed that this was somewhat of a reversion

XP look I acknowledge that you new worlders are soft on family and I'm allowing for that

I'm saying we never found a half decent reason why Luke decided to go with it (I mean they threw out a reason but Jesus it was a quick and lazy exposition), nor a half decent reason why solo-vader decided to dabble with granddad's Nazi attic box

Thing is, we're now in a space where with Carrie Fisher's death, there's simply no way for the original planned arc to continue, which by all accounts would have included a face-off or meeting or something between Leia and Kylo. So the Skywalker story as such would have run the full new trilogy; as it is, the real clean break -- imposed by totally outside circumstances -- occurs with the new one. Unless Lando shows up or something.

Fair, of course

xpost Because the idea that Luke's years of experience, devestation and loss might have changed him didn't seem to resonate with a bunch of whiners who apparently have never experienced that themselves.

― Ned Raggett, Sunday, December 31, 2017 10:16 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I compared it to losing one's religious faith late in life due to personal tragedy and still got met with proverbial empty stares.

that's basically how I took it

it wasn't the "omg, I briefly flicked on my light saber in a weak moment and took an aggressive stance to kill my nephew" that caused his lost faith. it was the fact that he did it recklessly and impulsively, allowing his intended target to see, one who was already conflicted between light and dark side, and this gave his student the excuse to legitimize the things Snoke had taught him about Jedis. and then he failed to stop Kylo from overpowering him and also killing half of his students.

If he'd have flicked his saber off and Kylo had stayed there, I doubt Luke would have ended the temple and run away to the hills. He had never taught before, he had no living Jedi masters to consult with (just Force Ghosts), and his first foray into teaching led to results similar to the ones Obi-Wan experienced. So he starts questioning "Why does this *keep happening* to the Jedi". I don't think it's that far-fetched.

Kylo being tempted by Vader makes perfect sense. He grew up in the shadow of legends so he had no real identity for himself. He had nothing but expectations, due to being a Solo AND a Skywalker. His parents had a path for him, he was probably your typical rebellious kid, and seeing his Master standing over him with light saber drawn probably made the decision easier for him.

Luke knew the saber draw was a momentary weak moment - Kylo thought it was an outright attack and that he saved himself by waking up in time.