Neil Gaiman - classic or dud

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I noticed a few anti-Gaiman comments on my Alan Moore's legacy thread. So do you think Neil Gaiman is Cool or Stool?

I enjoyed most of Sandman, with the exception of The Wake (embarrassing shite) and A Game Of You (just shite). The rest of it is really good, but then I am a sucker for all that recycling mythic things in modern life stuff.

One thing I really liked about Sandman was the way it was written for individual issues, and featured some wonderful stand-alone stories. A particular favourite was the one about The People Who Lived In The Forest.

but enough of my yakking.

― DV (dirtyvicar), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 11:17 (twenty-three years ago)

The standalone issues of sandman were among the best stuff he's done (that i've read). Didn't he win a Hugo award recently?? Overall i'd say, he's, um, good. at writing comics. i've heard his telly and novel stuff is a bit turgid.

― Alan (Alan), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 11:23 (twenty-three years ago)

"A Game Of You" was the only good bit DV! Some of the other ones had grebt art. And the Books Of Magic mini-series played up his virtues and toned down his vices.

Actually the Roman Empire one - first one I bought - wasn't bad either. The last 35 or so issues are mostly unspeakable.

His latest (kids) book got a good write-up in the Guardian and sounded quite interesting though.

― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 11:24 (twenty-three years ago)

hugo award for american gods, a real novel, i think. read it over the summer and had great fun playing spot the character from norse mythology etc (something he's always done well, borrowed from other cultures and updated)

miracleman run was great, whole issues based on lines that alan moore just tossed in as throwaways. be nice to see this concluded.

liked all the 'violent cases', 'mr punch' stuff he did with dave mckean as well. 'signal to noise' and 'black orchid' too.

he did suffer from overexposure for a while there. wasn't there a series of books called 'neil gaiman's (whatever)' where he'd done brief character outlines and other people had done the actual writing? i remember buying one ('mr hero') and being v disappointed.

nice to see neverwhere on the tv if only for the dave mckean title sequence.

not read coraline (in fact looking at the stripography there are a few recent things that have passed me by) but enjoyed the goldfish book.

bit too kean on faeries though 8)

andy

― koogs, Wednesday, 23 October 2002 11:58 (twenty-three years ago)

miracleman run was great, whole issues based on lines that alan moore just tossed in as throwaways. be nice to see this concluded.

liked all the 'violent cases', 'mr punch' stuff he did with dave mckean as well. 'signal to noise' and 'black orchid' too.

nice to see neverwhere on the tv if only for the dave mckean title sequence.

not read coraline (in fact looking at the stripography there are a few recent things that have passed me by) but enjoyed the goldfish book.

bit too keen on faeries though 8)

andy

― koogs, Wednesday, 23 October 2002 11:59 (twenty-three years ago)

Sort of fairly good when he isn't being an arse (which is pretty often) but about a tenth as good as people (including Neil Gaiman) generally seem to imagine. I don't care for the well-crafted middlebrow-with-highbrow-trimmings stuff at all, which is a lot of his work. I don't think he remotely approaches the class of Moore or Morrison.

In case anyone thinks I'm biased, I have spent about as much time in the pub with Neil as I have with Grant!

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 18:26 (twenty-three years ago)

I really adored Stardust and the one Sandman comic I was ever able to get my hands on (The Dream Hunters one, it's not a numbered part of the series). I think the ways he writes fairy tales are lovely. American Gods didn't seem beautiful until it was nearly over, though.

― Maria (Maria), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 19:35 (twenty-three years ago)

I was expecting a whole slew of populstic, down-with-the-so-called-intellectualization-of-comics type dud votes here. Glad to see it hasn't happened. Anyway, I like him, tho I don't think I'm articulate enough about the medium in general to say why.

― Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 23 October 2002 21:57 (twenty-three years ago)

Daniel the "intellectualisation" or otherwise of comics might be good but N.Gaiman surely has j-shit to do with it. Maria is OTM - its all about how well you think he handles fairy-tales/archetypes/myth-stuff.

― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 22:40 (twenty-three years ago)

i like the sandman short stories. they're kind of witty in a "house of secrets" meets "embarassing 11th grade goth short stories" sort of way.

― jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 22:58 (twenty-three years ago)

heh what jess said. (he's ~~"inflated-sense-of-intelligence-and/or-self-importance"-endowing~~ fun for teenage trainspotter types - like, wahey, aristophanes ref! OH NO THE KURSE OF MODERNISM etc etc). Sandman is what got me into comics, though, which counts for quite a lot.

― Ess Kay (esskay), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 23:42 (twenty-three years ago)

Is that last a good or bad thing, Ess Kay?

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 24 October 2002 10:21 (twenty-three years ago)

I've read a couple of the Sandman graphic novels and enjoyed them, but I'm not that familiar with the series. I got into him through his novels (probably first through Good Omens years and years ago, which I've been scared to re-read lest it not be as funny as I remember). I think Neverwhere and Stardust were fun and showed a lot of potential, but American Gods and a few things from Smoke & Mirrors were pretty brilliant.

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 24 October 2002 13:02 (twenty-three years ago)

oh lord Neverwhere! That was painful!

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 24 October 2002 17:30 (twenty-three years ago)

_Good Omens_ will probably turn out to be much funnier than you remember it being.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 24 October 2002 17:34 (twenty-three years ago)

Namedropping chance: Neil told me after Good Omens that he was working on another with Terry Pratchett, to be called '664: The Neighbour Of The Beast'. Great title, but given that it hasn't appeared by now I guess it never will.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 24 October 2002 20:04 (twenty-three years ago)

Notion that Queen is music from Hell = vaguely amusing, illiciting a slight chuckle during unguarded moment. Constant annoying references to Queen throughout tiresome book = NOT FUNNY AT ALL.

― David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 25 October 2002 04:25 (twenty-three years ago)

nine months pass...

So the first issue of Gaiman's Marvel series 1602 came out last week. Anyone reading this? Someone said elsewhere that it is like reading the Hob Gadling bits of Sandman. Those were my favourite bits of Sandman, so I like this a lot. But How Will It End?

― Richard Jones (scarne), Monday, 18 August 2003 14:13 (twenty-two years ago)

You know, it isn't even entertaining, it's just clever. It's shameless about the fact that it has no reason to exist, but shamelessness will only get you so far.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 18 August 2003 14:17 (twenty-two years ago)

i know nothing about superheros at all, and yet i loved the writing and art found in 1602, it was elegant, crisp, stylish and had a huge thwack of the john dee/queen bess magical underground.

― anthony easton (anthony), Monday, 18 August 2003 14:29 (twenty-two years ago)

i loved American Gods & Neverwhere...

― Kingfish (Kingfish), Monday, 18 August 2003 16:35 (twenty-two years ago)

The Gaiman/Dave McKean children's book 'The Wolves in the Walls' that just came out is pretty charming. The art is awesome and I think as a child I would a bit disturbed at points. And it has a sousaphone.

― Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 18 August 2003 16:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Really didn't like American Gods.

― s1utsky (slutsky), Monday, 18 August 2003 16:51 (twenty-two years ago)

McKean outclasses Neil.

― Leee (Leee), Monday, 18 August 2003 21:20 (twenty-two years ago)

oh lord, he's so bad. i can't believe i even repped him a little, once.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 18 August 2003 21:53 (twenty-two years ago)

The Sandman went on a fair bit too long, but generally had great art to make up for any shortcomings on the story side of things (though "The Kindly Ones" proves an exception to that.) Mr. Gaiman did write the single best issue of Hellblazer ever, though. But 1602 managed to disappoint. It could be first-issue-itis, however I'm afraid this is likely not the case.

That said, his short fiction is great, as are any and all of his collaborations with Mr. McKean.

― Matt Maxwell (Matt M.), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 11:55 (twenty-two years ago)

This dislike of Marc Hempel astounds me.

― Leee (Leee), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 21:24 (twenty-two years ago)

I liked the vast majority of sandman but american gods was a terrible novel. Now, it might have been a fine book for a Gaiman "fan" but it didn't succeed as a novel outside of that fandom. The majority of the rest of his stuff seems to suffer from this problem as well (although i'd be hard pressed to say exactly what this problem is. very helpful huh?). It's as though he's comfortable with cult status and therefore only has to pander to his own market and not stretch much further beyond that to be happy. Good for him I guess but I can't be bothered with most of it any more. This applies to the majority of Alan Moore's recent stuff as well (LOEG was good but god why does he always get into sex and become horribly cheesy and weird? Two whole issues re: Mina's rape, no thank you.).

― anthony kyle monday (akmonday), Tuesday, 19 August 2003 21:45 (twenty-two years ago)

This dislike of Marc Hempel astounds me.

Yeah, Marc Hempel was like the best artist The Sandman ever had. Too bad the story wasn't that good. Could it be that people disliked Hempel because his style fiffered so much from the usual gothic/artsy Sandman drawings?

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Wednesday, 20 August 2003 10:07 (twenty-two years ago)

I didn't like any of the Sandman art much (except P Craig Russell's issues which were nice in a Rackham sort of way) - it was all, Hempel included, horribly mannered - the gothy stuff seemed to fit the writing and story a lot better though.

― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 20 August 2003 10:17 (twenty-two years ago)

It's as though he's comfortable with cult status and therefore only has to pander to his own market and not stretch much further beyond that to be happy.

Well, that's true with most successful "genre" (superhero/sci-fi/fantasy/horror) writers, and not just in the comic world. The fanboys will always demand more, and most of these writers are happy making their living by answering to that demand. It could also be that they simply aren't capable of writing anything else, which I suspect is the case with Gaiman. Alan Moore at least tried, and ended up releasing his most consistently good work, A Small Killing. If he's back to superheroics again, I guess it's because that's where the money is.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Wednesday, 20 August 2003 10:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Mike Allred's Prez story was nicely mannered.

― Richard Jones (scarne), Wednesday, 20 August 2003 10:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, but I didn't quite get the message. People need strong, emphatic leaders? Go fuck yourself, Mr. Gaiman!

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Wednesday, 20 August 2003 10:28 (twenty-two years ago)

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