ending a friendship

as an adult, have you ever basically told someone you don't want to be friends with them any more, and not necessarily because of some horrible misdeed on their part?

i did it today with someone i think is a good person but who just stresses me out. i was dj at their wedding and they had me house sit for a week and helped me move last year. the problem is everything is always a transaction with them w/ an imaginary ledger, i don't find myself ever wanting to hang out with them because of it (and also their personality which tbh i'm not that into). better to declare my feelings and cut ties than to drag it out, no? i did it on fb a bit out of the blue since he'd been trying to contact me for a few weeks and i hadn't responded. at first, i was terse and then i followed up with something as diplomatic as i could manage. :|. it's a little sad because i don't have very many friends but kind of a relief to be honest, i guess.

How did they take it

I've a) never had the guts to do this and b) never had anyone have the guts to do it to me. (Which says something about me and the people I tend to befriend.)

There's a long-running thread on here along these lines that you may find helpful, trying to find it now.

How did they take it

― reggae mike love (polyphonic), Tuesday, August 9, 2016 11:47 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i'm not totally sure. he was a little upset at first, i think. but luckily this is the kind of person who wouldn't let it get to them too much. it also helps that we don't have a lot of mutual friendships. and since i'm pretty much done going out in this city i probably won't have to run into him a lot.

I don't personally feel like the end of a friendship needs to be a formal "thing" that happens, though I don't doubt I have known many people who feel differently. (closure! gotta close it up!)

but, y'know, if I try to get in touch with somebody once or twice, and I don't hear back for weeks and weeks, well, ball's in their court right? if they don't pass it back I guess we ain't playing anymore! no biggie, things change, people change etc etc

There's a long-running thread on here along these lines that you may find helpful, trying to find it now.

yeah, i remember posting to it, looks like it's a hard one to find tho, there are others asking where it is

I am that way but sometimes when the ball is in my court I don't answer because I am a very lazy person (also after a few days pass I feel guilty about it, and guilt leads to anxiety which leads to paralysis.) A few people I really like probably think I hate them due to this. I assume they feel this way bc when someone doesn't return my correspondence that's what I assume and I feel bad

xp to sheesh

i know. normally I would just let it run out like that but this guy keeps at it persistently, like when are we going to resume playing on my court. i think i overreacted though when i should have just been able to tell him I don't care for the transactional stuff and that it gets on my nerves when he doesn't give me space and gone from there. oh well.

xposts

One thing that has been hard for me to come to terms with is that you really can't go through life without hurting people sometimes. It's inevitable. Weirdly, ILX has been good for me in this regard. I've gotten some practice being mean to people when I perceive them being dumb and then not feeling bad about it. (Different discussion probably)

lol I've gotten way too used to doing that

just because i'm thinking about it, re: transactional behavior, it's when people or this person in particular offers something of themselves in a magnanimous fashion and you accept because it's nice, then later they expect that you will give them your time and attention and fealty sometimes at a moment's notice, that's what i can't deal with under the guise of 'friendship'.

yeah, that's nasty map! not any kind of friend I'd want to have in my life. and the hypothetical conversation you have with them about how you don't like them doing this and that sounds tremendously awkward and unpleasant, if it were a marriage that might be a thing to try, but it seems a waste of psychic energy for just a friend, and not even a particularly good friend at that...

I think facebook exacerbates these sorts of problems...I dunno I can't handle facebook at all. but I hear you treeship, communication has become so fast that quiet people are kind of left in the lurch, it's supposed to be instant! if you don't receive an instantaneous reply to whatever there must be something wrong.

I am just old enough to remember a time when nobody had any kind of space-age instant communicator device on their person at all times, and it was awesome, but oh well. anyway I do get some comfort from that old saw; " You probably wouldn’t worry about what people think of you if you could know how seldom they do "

fingers crossed anyway

some "friends" end up being exhausting or annoying or just no fun to hang out with. i can understand formally cutting that off in some circumstances. i'm pretty lazy/flaky/mental/reclusive so i could understand people cutting me off too. feel like friendships shouldn't need to be worked on tbh.

"Cutting people completely out of your life" is the other thread no?

yes!

thanks for the find, i don't think i've read through that one before.

some "friends" end up being exhausting or annoying or just no fun to hang out with. i can understand formally cutting that off in some circumstances. i'm pretty lazy/flaky/mental/reclusive so i could understand people cutting me off too. feel like friendships shouldn't need to be worked on tbh.

― Tom Watson in a fedora (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, August 10, 2016 9:09 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

recluses such as yourself are easy for me to be friendly with though because i am also one. it's more the not-so-thoughtful social butterflies with massive egos who i tend to be repelled by. thanks all for bearing with my livejournaling itt.

I've absolutely done this since the point when I realized that excising toxic relationships vastly improved my life. I'm pretty selective about the people I engage with on a personal level anyway so the people in question weren't bad people. Just people who were incompatible with me, or who had shit they needed to deal with that wasn't getting dealt with.

I've had a couple of friend breakups, with difficult people where past a point it was just too much work to stay friends. What I prize most in close friendships is a general comfort level where we're cool with each other and accepting of each other and nobody takes any given thing too personally and there's minimum drama.

Anyone who keeps a mental tally of slights or favors-due is just too exhausting.

I was reading this and thinking that I've never really had this situation... but I have!

There is a dude who was part of a casual friend circle who I'd hung out with outside of it, and was on reasonable terms with, but he was "quirky" and definitely had some weird shit going on with his mind. We were at a bar for a friend's birthday, sitting at a long table, and he decided to berate me for my life choices. It was a very impassioned rant about how I was a dick, and it was incredibly awkward and out of nowhere and everyone present was completely weirded out. I told him that I understood he was upset, none of this had to do with him, and I hoped he would feel better about life and that if he needed anything, I'd be around, but please don't do this.

Never got any sort of apology, several years later he tries adding me on facebook after sending this long message about how he'd like to be in touch and I ignored him. Great feeling, and the right move. Especially considering I found out from someone he later dated (who is also batshit crazy, but that is a different story) that he went over the edge, was a full-blown alcoholic, and when she tried to get his parents to house him for a week they declined because he threatened his mom with a knife when he was in high school.

Anyone who keeps a mental tally of slights or favors-due is just too exhausting.

― Mike Pence shakes his head and mouths the word ‘no’ (tipsy mothra), Wednesday, August 10, 2016 10:24 AM (17 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

EXACTLY. This was largely the impetus behind one friend breakup, when I coined the phrase 'asshole tax' to denote seemingly-beneficent acts undertaken mostly for use as chits when someone calls the actor out on being an asshole.

a transactional relationship is not a friendship

Amen.

otm

ya

this sounds like an acquaintance

have plenty of those and they come and go -- or i 'ghost' them (sorry for using this term)

the ones that turn to friends are more or less good friends

the only real 'transactional relationships' i have are work-related

I am that way but sometimes when the ball is in my court I don't answer because I am a very lazy person (also after a few days pass I feel guilty about it, and guilt leads to anxiety which leads to paralysis.) A few people I really like probably think I hate them due to this. I assume they feel this way bc when someone doesn't return my correspondence that's what I assume and I feel bad

― Treeship, Tuesday, August 9, 2016 5:39 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^^^ me

Yyyyyyyup, feeling that hard.

Replace 'very lazy' with 'ADD as eff (but, yeah, also lazy)'.

re: friendship as a transaction, I always hated how I had this one friend who always insisted (despite my protests) on picking up the tab when we hung out, and saying "you can get me next time". It's not that I don't want to hang out with you again, but now I'm pressured to create a "next time" relatively soon and then I'll be sitting there looking at the check wondering if I spent as much as you did.

nah, I have a friend who loves to pick up the tab and I let him do it because that is his thing, he likes to pick up the tab. I make sure to get a round of drinks at least once when I'm with him because it's not like he wants to perceive that he's buying _everything_, he just likes to buy food/drinks

I think the underlying assumption is supposed to be that he doesn't care about the tab and neither should I, and it's a fiction I'll allow

I like to pay my own way and don't like the feeling of 'owing' somebody, so it bugs me if someone insists on doing it anyway to the point of basically mugging the waiter so I can't throw my card down. if it's a gift ("hey lunch is on me today"), that's another thing, because I do that every now and then too - the whole "ehh you'll get me next time", the expectation of returning the favor is what I don't dig.

Then you should tell the person. If you can't/won't, maybe the problem is you, not them. Maybe not! But maybe it is. Sit back and think before jumping to peeve on a friend, especially about money. So many misunderstandings could be avoided.

This happened to me as recently as...last week? Don't remember but we joked about it & that was that. Clear communication!

why does everybody assume when you complain about a behavior that you never spoke to this person about it?

in any case, this was like eight years ago, and I don't talk to this person anymore since they moved out of state and got married and had a kid and we lost touch, I was just reminded of it by this thread.

this was also a friend who would tell me she "thought I was mad at her" if I didn't reply to her MySpace message/text in 2 hours or less, during work hours.

Whatever happened or whoever it was, your situation aside, the spending of money is bound to happen if you spend time w a person. Best to be clear.

Controlling behavior is separate from normal friendship imo.

yeah, communication is key, and knowing what your boundaries are and being comfortable identifying them for others.

sometimes i feel like i am... a mark? for certain kinds of people. manipulative people. just because i have a history with not establishing my boundaries, letting them be crossed because i want what i want (attention).

why does everybody assume when you complain about a behavior that you never spoke to this person about it?

― Neanderthal, Wednesday, August 10, 2016 4:33 PM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

because the story didn't have any indication that the annoyance was with this happening despite protest!

map, I think wanting attention is only human, it's getting the attention that we both need and desire that difficult, leading to a lot of uncomfortable compromises

The only ones I've formally ended were with exes. Everyone else has just been the natural drift apart.

I've had a couple friends who officially ended their friendships with me! Most recent one was someone with Borderline Personality, and that was a total bullet-dodge. I almost felt like thanking her for no longer forcing me to hold my tongue when she went on delusional rants, put up with her obsessing about slights or incidents from years ago, and then consistently reassuring her that I thought she was wonderful even when she said vindictive shit about other friends of mine because she was jealous of them or something ...

Yesterday for the first time in almost a year, I had a positive memory of my friendship with her.

i did it on fb a bit out of the blue

this means 'facebook messaged them', not like, 'posted publicly' right?

yeah, through messenger.

cool

"Cutting people completely out of your life" is the other thread no?

― stop trying to make fet wappen (wins), Wednesday, August 10, 2016 4:40 AM (14 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yes!

― j., Wednesday, August 10, 2016 5:00 AM (14 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

THANKS!

cutting people completely out of your life

feel like friendships shouldn't need to be worked on tbh.

― Tom Watson in a fedora (Noodle Vague)

yeah, this

what if ppl said that about marriages

otm

well that's the difference!

friendships that are worth it should be worked on, sure, but it shouldn't take work just to be friends - that's how I took NV's statement

yeah, friendships are not effortless but "friendship counseling" is not a thing unless it's about an inability to hold any friendship whatsoever, then it's probably about defining your approach to the concept of friendship

People you do lots of favours for, and help, and all that. And yet, come they day you need them to do something, and they magically recall that one time you couldn't help them because of being too busy.

I am wrestling w this at the moment, though i think I may end up just adjusting the level to "fun acquaintance" rather than ending the friendship completely

if i did end it, it would probably just be slow ghosting over time rather than a direct breakup

most of the time it's almost zero maintenance bc she doesnt even really want to talk or hang out, so much so that i am paranoid when i do reach out that I'm being annoying. so it's like why are we friends? but then when she is going thru something it's like a world event & she deploys this bloody flotilla of friends like we're the fuckin national guard.
the past month she had minor surgery & it has has been world-event times 100 & i just had to dip out.
i'm fucking tired of being strategically deployed. esp because i dont think she would do the same for me! she's like the least dependable person i know.

it's hard to stare all of it down & really ~decide~...it starts to feel v lonely

I had a friend who I sort of did this with some years back... no official "I'm done with this" thing, but I kind of cracked it at him on FB chat one day and said "I've known you for umpteen years and you've never once ceased making some kind of lame, jokey insult at my expense, thinking its funny, and frankly I'm fed up with it". He replied with ":-/" and I never spoke to him again lol.

But seriously, every conversation was some crack at my hair, my home cleanliness, my inability to drive, my height, etc etc all in this 50s comedian roast manner, and it got REALLY TIRED after about 10 years.

I think a romantic relationship/marriage is v different to a friendship for some obvious reasons

because the story didn't have any indication that the annoyance was with this happening despite protest!

― mh, Wednesday, August 10, 2016 5:49 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

re: friendship as a transaction, I always hated how I had this one friend who always insisted (despite my protests) on picking up the tab when we hung out

you call that an indication???

Mrs Doyle fight

lol (two weeks pass)

I thought you meant you protested when he attempted to pay ("No, please, I'll get it") and not calling out on the behavior ("I prefer to pay for myself, please stop getting the bill every time we go out, because I am not comfortable with that")

I'm guilty of repeatedly telling people lightly that I don't want something at the time but not drawing a line that it's something I prefer for all incidents

weird when people do this w/o a word but avoiding conflict is how some people roll

now see, this is the side i'm interested in. why is it weird? why is conflict avoidance weird? does it need to be a conflict at all? why are words important to tie this thing up?

not trying to stoke a flame here mind you, just genuinely interested.

adults well into their middle years should be able to articulate why they no longer wish to communicate with people they once sought out for companionship/conversation

youngsters are understood to be a bit more fickle

there really doesn't need to be conflict, but ghosting in the absence of some abusive behavior seems shitty

but this is fairly common behavior, just seems a bit disappointing, not reprehensible

fair enough! thank you.

I guess all I have to add is that "abusive behavior" may not be quite otm, there almost certainly is a...spectrum of sensitivities to personal relationships? stupid as that sounds. it must be a disease, though if it's as common as it seems that is a little bit distressing.

adults well into their middle years should be able to articulate why they no longer wish to communicate with people they once sought out for companionship/conversation

But, like, why would you want to hurt somebody if you didn't need to? Obviously if the person notices that you're ghosting and asks you specifically then the adult thing to do is to let them know, but most people don't really notice a cooling off. If you're messaging/calling/arranging to see them just to tell them that there is an aspect of their personality that you don't like and for that reason you would rather not be friends any more, that's not adult and responsible behaviour, that's just cruelty.

"Hey Bob, sorry I haven't seen you much recently, I've decided to prioritise my friends who don't do that embarrassing slurpy thing when they eat. Bye forever."

Completely otm imo

never realised how unusual it was to not do friendship accounting/try to optimise social relations

not sure "abusive behavior" is necessarily accurate in all cases when they just might not be a great friend
I mean, if I did something genuinely irritating or socially abusive it'd be good to be clued in
I don't need a call or letter from someone when they decide to stop being my friend because I rebuke their political rants.