Ulrika rape case - man named!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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It's John Leslie!!!!!!!!!

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 13:36 (twenty-three years ago)

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 13:36 (twenty-three years ago)

well he does sound a lot like Trevor from Eastenders

― blueski, Wednesday, 23 October 2002 13:38 (twenty-three years ago)

I never liked him. He looks sort of shifty. And smug.

― C J (C J), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 13:42 (twenty-three years ago)

The Evening Standard has the news that this name was mentioned on TV this morning.

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 13:43 (twenty-three years ago)

Sorry, what I meant to say is:

The Evening Standard has the news that this name was mentioned on TV this morning.

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 13:45 (twenty-three years ago)

he always seemed like John Gordon SInclair's better looking brother - nice deep scottish accent, generally laid back, cheerful and friendly demeanour...thats how he got where he is in the first place...i'm fairly suspicious of the whole 'rape' thing but obv. there's no smoke without fire

― blueski, Wednesday, 23 October 2002 13:47 (twenty-three years ago)

hey, where have you been all week? not popbitch, i venture.;)

― michael wells (michael w.), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 13:47 (twenty-three years ago)

During a discussion on Jonsson's allegations in today's newspapers, broadcaster and journalist Vivienne Parry said of two other women who have made complaints against the same man: "They haven't gone to the police, they've gone to Max Clifford so ..."

natch

― blueski, Wednesday, 23 October 2002 13:48 (twenty-three years ago)

innocent until proven guilty.

barbaric shit like "there's no smoke without fire" is why we don't bring back hanging. perhaps test the theory by pouring paraffin over paul dacre's pre-haemorrhaged skull.

― Emmanuel Goldstein, Wednesday, 23 October 2002 13:50 (twenty-three years ago)

Of course nobody will ever know for definite, but I jst found it a little shocking!

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 13:52 (twenty-three years ago)

Popbitch did try to censor the name (without success). Today's news just means there's no need to bother. Legally, I'm guessing, the papers can now say "John Leslie was named on the Wright Stuff" and avoid libel. Channel 5 can be sued, I suppose, but I don't know if anyone will bother, especially since it's suggested that Ulrika has finally gone to the police in advance of interviews in next Sunday's papers.

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 13:54 (twenty-three years ago)

barbaric shit like "there's no smoke without fire"

obviously this is not a solid enough belief to prosecute! its gonna be another big 'what is rape anyway' type thing but now's about the time i shut up and feign disinterest anyway

― blueski, Wednesday, 23 October 2002 13:58 (twenty-three years ago)

i'm, still confused, all week the papers were alluding to a major major top drawer celeb, and then its leslie?

― gareth (gareth), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 14:00 (twenty-three years ago)

who reads these fuckin autobiographies anyway btw?

― blueski, Wednesday, 23 October 2002 14:00 (twenty-three years ago)

oh so that's what they were on about on b3ta! all these allusions to john leslie...

― Alan (Alan), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 14:01 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't see how any prosecution could be made anyway. It was so long ago & there is no actual evidence, as it would be their words against his! Blueski, come back!

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 14:01 (twenty-three years ago)

Hey, John Leslie's a big name when you stay home all day! I was glued to This Morning earlier looking for cracks in the facade. I was wondering what the guests, especially Lenny Henry (who for same vague reason my mind connects with Jonathon Ross), were thinking as they were being interviewed by the guy. Yes, I am sad and bored with life.

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 14:07 (twenty-three years ago)

Didn't Jonathon Ross say that he knew about it b4 anyway?

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 14:08 (twenty-three years ago)

But it was all a showbiz secret. I was imagining being a guest on live television, thinking I know that the audience knows that I know I'm talking to an alleged rapist. How would I behave? Of course, everyone was chatty and plugging their stuff.

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 14:12 (twenty-three years ago)

Not Jim Davidson? I think I'm going to cry

― Sofa King Alternative (Sofa King Alternative), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 14:14 (twenty-three years ago)

I am confused as to why this thread has superseded the other one. Were people really foxed by the asterisks?

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 14:17 (twenty-three years ago)

(That was the other one SKA).

― Pete (Pete), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 14:18 (twenty-three years ago)

its a bit like the Craig Charles thing years ago...he was cleared of rape and people soon seemed to forget tho he clearly got up to just as much lewd shenanigans as Leslie...i interviewed Charles myself a few years ago but of course i just stuck to questions about Red Dwarf! i'm not sure i even thought about the negative incident...of course with Ulrika having a book out and generally being so huge (unlike the unknown 'average person' Charles was accused of raping) its far more unlikely Leslie's career will remain intact

― blueski, Wednesday, 23 October 2002 14:19 (twenty-three years ago)

http://www.commercialbreaksandbeats.co.uk/b3ta/999leslieavenue.jpg

― Alan (Alan), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 14:21 (twenty-three years ago)

does anyone reckon Ms Jonsson might just be a mentalist?

― DV (dirtyvicar), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 14:29 (twenty-three years ago)

i repeat: innocent until proven guilty. we don't know if he has got up to any lewd shenanigans. nor craig charles for that matter.

you should avoid using words like "clearly." this is hearsay. you do not KNOW for a FACT, so you should keep quiet unless you have any concrete evidence to back up your accusations.

― Emmanuel Goldstein, Wednesday, 23 October 2002 14:38 (twenty-three years ago)

DV, come on, next you'll be saying she was 'asking for it'. I know she's playing on the damaged blonde persona a bit, but suguesting anyone made up a rape tale without real evidence is the reason more sexual assults don't get reported.

― Anna (Anna), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 14:40 (twenty-three years ago)

hahahha, Alan that pic is amazing. Now i know how my nan felt when she was "let down" by Micheal Barrymore ("it was hard enough for me to get over the fact he is gay"); i used to love that show, i'm never watching it again.

― seano, Wednesday, 23 October 2002 14:43 (twenty-three years ago)

I've just been reading this and it says that he's the son of a biscuit salesman and that he taught Catherine Zeta Jones 'everything there is to know about sex'.

Now I can't stop singing to myself (in a Welsh accent): "The only boy who could ever teach me, was the son of a biscuit salesman".

― Alfie (Alfie), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 14:44 (twenty-three years ago)

He's supposed to be making a statement at 5pm.

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 14:46 (twenty-three years ago)

they're celebs Emmanuel, of course they get up to lewd shenanigans - all of them, every single one - they cant ALL sue me, hahar

― blueski, Wednesday, 23 October 2002 14:46 (twenty-three years ago)

according to the BBC: "Although she has never named the man, he was inadvertently named on Five (formally Channel Five) television on Wednesday morning."

― Alan (Alan), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 14:51 (twenty-three years ago)

(sorry skipped over the posts near the top) bad mang

― Alan (Alan), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 14:52 (twenty-three years ago)

to back up my use of the word 'clearly' - this was because both Charles and Leslie (i love the way the surnames are both very gentlemen-sounding first names incidentally) had details of said lewd shenanigans (nothing criminal as such, just kinky/seedy/whatever) documented about in the tabloids in the past - i'm reasonably sure based on news reports (or lack of) that these articles were unchallenged by the subjects so we can safely say both subjects were clearly involved in what could be described as lewd shenanigans of some kind in the past, cos thats what the tabloids reported and they werent sued for libel about it

― blueski, Wednesday, 23 October 2002 15:14 (twenty-three years ago)

I really don't think there is anything to talk about on this subject. Ulrika did not in her book and has not since *named anyone*. If I'd been her, I would not have mentioned a sexual attack in my autobiography, but there you go. She did. This is *not* carte blanche to go rumour crazy (well, apparently it is, but I wish it wasn't). That John Leslie's name has been 'mentioned' on Five is nowhere near fact. I hate the British press and what now seems to be the prevailing culture it spawns.

― Archel (Archel), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 15:30 (twenty-three years ago)

but Ulrika isn't the only one who has been attacked by this man. His carrer is over quicker than you can say 'gary glitter'

― kinski (kinski), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 15:33 (twenty-three years ago)

a) Ulrika is not the only one who SAYS she has been attacked by this man, and b) it's a matter for the police not the tabloids.

― Archel (Archel), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 15:35 (twenty-three years ago)

Exactly.

― Emmanuel Goldstein, Wednesday, 23 October 2002 15:37 (twenty-three years ago)

whats the point in saying that? it sounds like 'the threat of nuclear war is a matter for the politicians, not the general public' to me. i am not rubbing my hands with glee at these allegations, its just something 'interesting' that inevitably warrants natural speculation by anyone who knows of the people involved and their reputations. of course its nobody's business but theirs but when their business is made aware to the public through descriptions in autobiographies and tabloids then what do you expect? In an ideal world perhaps there'd be no such thing as minor celebrities who are only famous for doing their job as they're expected to do it, celeb-bashing tabloid culture and certainly no such thing as rape but there is and people feel compelled to talk about it - oh, the unfeeling idiots...

oh and surely to the people who witnessed Matthew Wright mentioning John Leslie's name on Five (as reported), it IS a fact?

― blueski, Wednesday, 23 October 2002 15:53 (twenty-three years ago)

On a yahoo chatroom someone has just said they heard on Capitol Radio John Leslie had been found hanged.
Can anyone tell me if its true? cant always believe what you hear.

― Barry, Wednesday, 23 October 2002 15:56 (twenty-three years ago)

it is curious tho that pinkpanther's thread title is VERY tabloidy - but even The Mirror would never get away with so many exclamation marks (!)

― blueski, Wednesday, 23 October 2002 15:58 (twenty-three years ago)

Blueski - it's fact that his name was mentioned, not that he did it. People are talking as if he is guilty, not as if there is an unproven allegation. That's all Archel and Emmanuel are saying.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 16:00 (twenty-three years ago)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2354067.stm

check it out - its fascinating how news agencies are still choosing not to name the 'accused' - now at this point i wonder whether anyone has actually ACCUSED him? if not then i retract all references to the 'accused' person...i shouldve said 'alleged'

its all very ridiculous but a fascinating lesson in media coverage and legal issues as a result

― blueski, Wednesday, 23 October 2002 16:03 (twenty-three years ago)

Are you talking about legally accused? Well obviously not - that's the whole point.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 16:05 (twenty-three years ago)

I know I'm talking about 'an ideal world'. But I think it's ok for me to wish we lived in one, when it comes to tabloid journalism. (And as Nick says: yes it's a fact that Matthew Wright mentioned John Leslie's name. I meant that his name being mentioned is not the same as his name being released by the police or said by one of the women involved.)

― Archel (Archel), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 16:05 (twenty-three years ago)

sorry for being a bit irate/defiant/sarcastic/whatever - i KNOW its futile and stupid to speculate on these things...but i am interested because it seems to be an unprecedented scenario and if it raises awareness and talking points on all the issues - many of them illogical or hypocritical or just plain contemptible - surrounding this scenario then its worth this kind of attention

― blueski, Wednesday, 23 October 2002 16:11 (twenty-three years ago)

how was his name accidentaly mentioned?
did anyone see it?

― robin (robin), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 16:18 (twenty-three years ago)

That transcript in full

MATTHEW WRIGHT:

And in the papers today we see continuing coverage of Ulrika's claims about the rape she suffered at the hands of a well-known TV presenter who she refuses to name. Of course, I'm a media insider so I know it's JOHN LESLIE but I can't tell you that. OOOPS - WHAT HAVE I DONE? MY WIFE WILL KILL ME!

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 16:25 (twenty-three years ago)

Nick you'll never work at the BBC again

― blueski, Wednesday, 23 October 2002 16:30 (twenty-three years ago)

Surprisingly BBC 6 O'clock news made no mention of the story at all, ITV had story as lead but refused to name him for legal reasons.

Wouldn't he better off getting in touch with a good lawyer rather than Max Clifford.

(And Alan's piccy has disappeared.)

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 16:37 (twenty-three years ago)

Who is John Leslie? I have never heard of him.

― N0RM4N PH4Y, Wednesday, 23 October 2002 16:41 (twenty-three years ago)

He used to be a dancer for Hawkwind.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 16:45 (twenty-three years ago)

I am assuming Ulrika suspected his name would come out somehow and that this was a cunning way of exacting punishment without to go through the courts herself.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 16:46 (twenty-three years ago)

he used to present blue peter,but got fired for taking coke,as far as i know,although i could go wrong
he also presents some game show (wheel of fortune?)

― robin (robin), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 16:53 (twenty-three years ago)

he didnt get fired for coke, that was that other guy, the one that went onto big breakfast

― gareth (gareth), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 16:55 (twenty-three years ago)

richard bacon?

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 16:55 (twenty-three years ago)

yes thats it!

― gareth (gareth), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 16:57 (twenty-three years ago)

Can anyone confirm to me that this isn't the first time that Leslie has been alleged to have been treating women badly? I've been getting blank looks from people when I mention it. Was it just a word of mouth/net rumour that I had heard or has it been in the press before? As I said on the other thread, he was my first guess because stuff I've heard before.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 16:58 (twenty-three years ago)

Tonight's news (on Radio 2, driving home from work just now) says that another woman (not Ulrika) has gone to the police today and reported that the same man raped her - but they have obviously not named names. Police are investigating. The plot thickens.

If the earlier reports are true that Ulrika had to spend four days in hospital with severe internal bruising after she was raped, then I hope he is prosecuted. How on earth do you prove something like that though, fourteen years after the alleged event?

― C J (C J), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 17:21 (twenty-three years ago)

I've heard stories about John Leslie before, although nothing illegal as such, just things like him allegedly inviting two girls up to his hotel room for "a drink", then disappearing into the bathroom and running out naked while trying to whack off, at which point said girls fled. Obviously these are all completely scurrilous rumours which are probably not true and in no way grounds for anyone to mount a libel suit against me.

CJ - I suppose he *could* go down for one of the other alleged assaults, depending on how recent they were.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 17:37 (twenty-three years ago)

Matt, that would be totally inappropriate punishment.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 17:38 (twenty-three years ago)

Some sketchy details for you, N.:

'He has often appeared in the tabloids. There was the infamous story of an encounter with two lesbians in a Birmingham hotel in 1997, and of a later incident in which he allegedly refused to leave the Edinburgh flat of two new female acquaintances until they'd put his trousers back on.

Few middle-ranking TV celebrities appear so often in the tabloid diary columns. Last month he was said to have spent the evening at a Scottish football dinner approaching a series of women with the chat-up line: "You're the one I've chosen for tonight."'

from http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/articles/1733725

I've heard other stuff as well, but can't remember exactly what when or where.

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 17:40 (twenty-three years ago)

Can I just mention that "innocent until proven guilty" is a legal principle not a moral one? Pretty much our entire social and ethical lives are based on judging people - this is little different. Of course if/when anything comes to trial this person should legally be considered innocent - whether any individual considers them as such is entirely up to them.

― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 23 October 2002 22:33 (twenty-three years ago)

I think the legal principle comes from the moral one though. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone, etc.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 24 October 2002 07:12 (twenty-three years ago)

The picture of Leslie on the front of the Metro this morning was class. Radio 4 said it's BBC policy not to report on the type of story where allegations about a celebrity are flung about until the police have issued a report, which is why they didn't mention his name. They still reported on it though, which foxed me a bit. Apparently the Independent is the only paper not to have named names this morning.

― Madchen (Madchen), Thursday, 24 October 2002 07:24 (twenty-three years ago)

I think the BBC were probably right to report on the whole furore as news, but even more right not to name names. Will ILE get done for libel along with most of the gutter press if this man turns out to be innocent? And I'm still very uncomfortable with this insidious idea that past appearances in tabloids connected with sexual scandal makes someone more likely to be a rapist. It is NOT the same thing. Rape, unlike adultery or enjoying bondage for example, is a *violent crime*.

― Archel (Archel), Thursday, 24 October 2002 07:44 (twenty-three years ago)

Bear in mind as well that the standards of certainty are different in a criminal case (ie rape) to a civil case (ie libel). As mentioned many a time above it would be very difficult for Ulrika to secure a conviction for rape after this amount of time and with no physical evidence. That said this does not prove John innocent (his innocence in the eyes of the law is guaranteed) but not in the eyes of those who would be adjudicating a slander / libel trial.

― Pete (Pete), Thursday, 24 October 2002 08:19 (twenty-three years ago)

I have mixed feelings about this one. As a woman I'm kinda on Ulrika's side, I don't see her making up this stuff and she's either totally naive or very clever. If he did do it I hope he gets what's coming. On the other hand, as someone who has experienced first hand the ways of the tabloid press I'm with "innocent until proven guilty". The tabloids have gone mad over this one without so much as a police report.

― Plinky (Plinky), Thursday, 24 October 2002 08:26 (twenty-three years ago)

http://www.ikarus.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/les.jpg

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 24 October 2002 10:24 (twenty-three years ago)

Bear in mind as well that the standards of certainty are different in a criminal case (ie rape) to a civil case (ie libel).

the standard of proof in Libel cases is stacked in favour of the plaintiff. If for the sake of argument John Leslie was to sue someone and they pleaded justification ("it wasn't libel because he did it!") then the defendant (the "Libeler") would have to prove that Leslie actually did do it. I'm not sure whether that is just 'balance of probabilities' or 'beyond reasonable doubt'. It might be more than simple balance of probablities, as libel law works on the basis that people are entitled to their good name.

― DV (dirtyvicar), Thursday, 24 October 2002 10:34 (twenty-three years ago)

Richard Bacon was stitched up by the BBC as the Screws wanted to run a story about another 'personality' (not JL) and they gave the paper the Bacon story to prevent them running their first one. Allegedly, natch.

Also, a prominent family-man stylee individual went to court last week and after a 5-day hearing, got an injunction to prevent him being named in the papers as having known Ulrika.

― Dave B (daveb), Thursday, 24 October 2002 10:35 (twenty-three years ago)

when's that Ulrika/Stan Collymore sex tape going to find its way onto the internet tho?

― blueski, Thursday, 24 October 2002 10:51 (twenty-three years ago)

RI:SE showed the channel 5 clip this morning. As this means I am 1 of only 6 people who saw the clip this time round I shall give my thoughts.

Wright said something like "so let me get this right, now three women have made allegations against John leslie..." and kept talking while the camera switched between him and the woman he was talking to, whose face was halfway between shock and trying not to laugh

― Sofa King Alternative (Sofa King Alternative), Thursday, 24 October 2002 10:56 (twenty-three years ago)

am i the only person who LIKES RI:SE?...the Irish lady annoys me a bit tho, not cos she's Irish obviously

― blueski, Thursday, 24 October 2002 11:24 (twenty-three years ago)

I think the BBC and various other parties are being quite circumspect in quoting the channel 5 revelation as it's very similar to the case in which Jason Donovan successfully sued the Face for publishing images which indicated that he was gay.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Thursday, 24 October 2002 11:55 (twenty-three years ago)

I do kinda like ri:se, but the two irish people are my favourite presenters on there

― Sofa King Alternative (Sofa King Alternative), Thursday, 24 October 2002 15:07 (twenty-three years ago)

What i don't understand is that Eurika supposedly spent 3 days in hospital with rape-induced injuries, so why weren't the Pigs contacted?

Irish ri:se girl is fffffffffit

― edena, Friday, 25 October 2002 09:38 (twenty-three years ago)

I know someone who shagged JL in fact she was the other woman when he split up with Zeta-Jones. She always said how nice he was, if a little smarmy.

― chris (chris), Friday, 25 October 2002 09:44 (twenty-three years ago)

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