The nation may survive, but the wound to hope and order will never fully heal - US elections 2016: the october surprises

http://images.onionstatic.com/clickhole/1665/5/16x9/640.jpg

for the record, lenin did not belong on that list

thx caek

Dude must have serious NDAs, given the relative lack of high-profile leaks for a guy who leaves a trail of slime like a slug everywhere he goes.

Senator Bedfellows had nuthin on Trump

Hey guys, been offline for a few hours, excited for the new thread! Hope I didn't miss anything exciting in the interim!

there is obviously a core of "deplorables" who will vote for him no matter what, but a significant fraction (~half?) could in principle be persuaded to stay home or even vote another way. something like "grab the pussy" has to have an effect on more than just undecideds.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CuMl0SnXYAAyFA0.jpg:large

NPR led with the worst quote from that leak. Their conservative commentator right now just called this catastrophic, worse than anything else he has said.

i'm sending this video to every trump supporter i know and telling them that voting for him is unacceptable

the third party vote/undecideds were already slowly declining so with this and that he could fall below his vaunted 40% floor nationally

Oh definitely. Of all 5000 controversies Trump has been at the center of since his announcement, this blew up bigger and faster than any. People are MAD. xps

https://www.rt.com/usa/361990-clinton-podesta-emails-wikileaks/

carried over from the other thread because it feels like people are forgetting this:

Alex - I kinda feel like Trump's cratering anyway so ain't denying his chances are basically vanishing daily but I dunno if this is gonna be the individual knockout blow that we think it should be (even though any candidate in previous years coulda been deflated by it, look at Herman Cain - granted those were lawsuits but...).

Trump is currently facing a lawsuit where it is alleged he raped a 13-year-old girl.

http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/federal-judge-orders-hearing-in-donald-trump-rape-lawsuit-case/

is there anything actually problematic in the emails or is it just exciting to find out what hillary orders from chipotle? xp

problematic for her lower intestine

A close adviser to Trump told CNN the story is "flat out appalling" and at this point, they can't even begin to guess whether Trump can come back from this.

"This should have never happened. I wish it had never happened. I think I know that men talk this way sometimes, but it's nothing I would ever want to hear or condone or approve of," the adviser said. "My reaction is -- it's appalling. It's just flat out appalling."

This adviser, who did not know that the Post story was coming, described the story as "pretty vulgar" and a part of a "barrage" of unflattering stories Trump has suffered from.

The adviser also said Trump's apology does not go far enough.

"Doing anything other than to say it was a grievous error and he apologizes would be a mistake," the adviser said. "I would take it a step further and own to the words as being offensive -- not 'if.'"

The adviser, clearly exasperated, added: "Another day in Trump world ... I hate it."

a significant fraction (~half?) could in principle be persuaded to stay home or even vote another way. something like "grab the pussy" has to have an effect on more than just undecideds.

can also imagine this partic scandal pushing people towards hillary instead of just away from trump -- "apparently we really fucking DO need a woman president" etc

never been so looking forward to 11/8. this election just makes me *feel* gross

sorry for the jokey clinton/trump image. this is a tape of trump talking about, among other things, sexual assault.

Assange sonned again by actual journalists

xp

Nah, it's fair. They deserve each other xp

Of all 5000 controversies Trump has been at the center of since his announcement, this blew up bigger and faster than any.

I've definitely been wrong about this. I thought he was pretty much inoculated at this point, that anything new would flare up and die down quickly.

problematic for her lower intestine

― ¶ (DJP), Friday, October 7, 2016 6:18 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

NO BLOOD FOR STOOL

xpost I read the story here as my mother was leaving to go to the store. I didn't bring it up, she doesn't keep up on this stuff as quick as me and we just had a hurricane so the news is divided on the radio.

5 minutes later by the time she came home, she was already talking about it.

this is a very interesting email from the podesta collection about hillary strategizing around the iran deal:
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/32

I've definitely been wrong about this. I thought he was pretty much inoculated at this point, that anything new would flare up and die down quickly.

My impression of it is based on Google searches for articles about the story (lots of publications that don't cover the race...pages and pages of them) and having it be mentioned by friends/acquaintences who never say one word about politics. And it didn't creep into the consciousness slowly. It crashed like a meteor.

betting markets moving about as fast toward clinton as they did after the debate right now

amazed that even my friends who just dealt with the storm and aren't really occupied w/ politics at the moment are plastering this thing all over. FB is nonstop this story right now.

xpost holy shit

now top story on the times, ahead of the hurricane, and the word "pussy" is in the story

ny times also printing the word "fuck"

where could one most quickly see the betting market deets

“This is the moment candidates should use to cut ties with Trump,” said Mike Murphy, a Republican strategist. “I recommend Paul come down with a dental emergency tonight.”

who's the lucky one who gets to give it to him

xp https://twitter.com/DavMicRot/status/784519604898967552

Trump dropping out by 10/31 up to 0.10 from 0.00. still not taken too serious by bettors but lol damn.

NBC NIghtly News is running it now. TKO.

i wonder how long the post had this tape. obviously the source has been holding on to it for years, but today (ryan tomorrow, debate sunday) is about as bad as timing could be from trump's POV

Holy shit this story is unreal. horrific really is the word. i honestly don't know where there is to go from here

(xpost) Was wondering the same thing.

Looking forward to hearing from many people. Top of list: Giuliani, Kayleigh McEnany, Jeffrey Lord.

Nightly News aired mostly the unedited quote (with bleeps obv), though they cut out him saying he tried to fuck her, though the "pussy" line was left in.

Giuliani: Come on, are we supposed to believe that's *his* voice? I mean, come on...we've all seen Forrest Gump.

It's incredible, of all the horrid things he's said or done, this is so bereft of nuance, even racist/xenophobic/sexist nuance, that there is just no getting around it. It'd be like a car arguing with a brick wall.

Advisers quoted as saying "there's just no way to spin this"

This was quick:

https://mobile.twitter.com/jackallisonLOL/status/784515366995099648

it just makes me think of....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMb9OuDR-0I

not the cliched "world burn" line, the one about "they turned to someone they didn't completely understand"

Assange latest leak getting zero coverage. Journalism: 1, Fugitive Rapist Hacker Shitbag: 0

This is the point at which most famous people would apologize and then check themselves into rehab.

Also, it's fun that the _one_ thing he'll instinctively come back with(attacking Bill by proxy) is shit she's been sorting for about 18+ years

was kinda hoping hillary might do that *wrong* thing into the microphone like donald does. that would have been funny. she seemed like she was in the mood to do something like that. she could have done it for 90 minutes. he's wrong a lot.

i was hoping she'd say "Sphincter says what?"

Back to back, heart to heart: http://www.luckytv.nl/back-to-back-heart-to-heart/ (click the vid)

i still can't get over the whole putin thing. that was gold. i can't believe donald thought it was a slam to say that putin doesn't respect her! that's so bizarre. everyone hates putin.

the whole Putin thing seems like the easiest negative press to avoid and yet he has bungled it every time, right down to the refusal to accept the intelligence debriefings about their hacks.

almost as if he has an earpiece and Putin's in his ear going "nuh uh uhhhhhhhhhhh"

Maybe Putin's the one who's got all the real dirt on him.

i'm trying to figure out to what extent his putin thing is based on genuine admiration for authoritarianism, what part is playing to potential russian investors/busines interest, and what part is the influence of advisers

i still keep running through the doomsday scenario that would be the russians actually hacking the election, trump winning, and then hillary having to advance the claim that it was rigged

lol at back 2 back heart 2 heart, worth waiting for it to load.

Predominantly the first option, I'd guess. (xxxp)

the only people for whom "putin doesn't respect her" really works as an attack are those whose lack of respect for Hillary far exceeds their lack of respect for putin. but the number of people who willingly believe Hillary is an evil-hearted bitch, a criminal and liar, who murders her enemies and sleeps with lesbians and Wall Street bankers is depressingly large.

i'm trying to figure out to what extent his putin thing is based on genuine admiration for authoritarianism, what part is playing to potential russian investors/busines interest, and what part is the influence of advisers

― intheblanks, Thursday, October 20, 2016 1:58 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i think part of it is this too - putin praising trump as a "bright and talented person" http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/17/politics/russia-putin-trump/, just a sucker for flattery

yeah, that makes sense

lovey doveys

Trump went double down on authoritarianism and gave props to FUCKING BASHAR AL ASSAD, nevermind Putin

hey Trump just likes smart people, they're so smart

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CvN2GFwWcAAx_i4.jpg:large

Wasn't Scott Adams supposed to destroy Twitter today?

http://www.msn.com/en-us/music/news/janet-jacksons-nasty-streams-spike-250-percent-on-spotify-after-debate/ar-AAjc2B8?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp

http://blog.dilbert.com/post/152067706781/i-score-the-third-debate

http://blog.dilbert.com/post/151981022076/is-twitter-shadowbanning-me

do it light, muting me through the night
Shadowbanning, baby now that ain't right

wow if Dilbro is even admitting that Clinton one that means Trump was absolutely slaughtered

that said gtfo with the 2nd half of that article, "oh it'll certainly be rigged because Team Clinton said Trump is Hitler, boo hoo" god just admit you blew this one

the most annoying thing about scott adams is that he paints the debate as if hillary pointing trump out to be a monster was a victory of style over substance and literally trump has not one real, substantial actual bit of policy (except for his shitty tax rates) that is actually spelled out in specifics

I don’t believe in Santa Claus.

I don’t believe in ghosts.

I don’t believe in a traditional god.

I don’t believe in luck.

And I don’t see Donald Trump as dangerous.

donald n me -- that's reality

We don’t expect him to have the same mastery of the facts. The bar is lower for the outsider

this is pretty stupid, i would think you would set the bar at least as high for someone who hasnt proven themselves by holding past office but hey let's keep the motion of the goal posts as fluid and continuous as possible

I mean does he think the rest of the world is going to also set a lower bar of expectations for a President in how he relates to them simply cos "he's new to this"? Like, this isn't training for the cash register at Wawa.

i still can't get over the whole putin thing. that was gold. i can't believe donald thought it was a slam to say that putin doesn't respect her! that's so bizarre. everyone hates putin.

― scott seward, Thursday, October 20, 2016 1:53 PM (thirty-eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Well he was TRYING to say that Putin will push her around and she won't get anywhere with him on whichever negotiations are needed. But it's still thinly veiled admiration of Putin as a role model on his part.

xpost like, mastery of the facts for an outsider can at least be feigned on a semi-competent scale with "debate prep", and failing to prep for a debate and bungling answers rightfully makes people wonder if he's going to do his homework prior to international meetings, whether he'll read briefings, or do any of the other numerous things that Presidents do that he doesn't wanna do

it is incredibly irritating that he frames the view of Trump as being racist or dangerous or a complete moron as some sort of weapons-grade persuasion by Team Clinton, and not a natural reading of the things he does and says every single day.

does it even really matter if Trump is willing to concede the election results or not? It's not like the loser certifies the vote or something. He can file as many stupid frivolous lawsuits as he wants, he's not gonna get a sympathetic hearing.

I'm sure it doesn't matter in any official capacity, but I think it's the unofficial capacity that people outside of the more crazed members of his flock are concerned about.

Him not conceding implies to me that he will lead some sort of revolution against the government, whether that is a peaceful if belligerent protest (hmmm), or a violent one (whatever degree that may be is legit horrifying)

Choices choices

https://twitter.com/SopanDeb/status/789174109745721344

actually in a weird way i want him to contest it just to cement himself as a total loser crybaby, all his wealth is going to evaporate now that he can't trade on his toxic name

If you want a reason to be worried, ask yourself why the mainstream media is so keen on framing the election as “not rigged.” The message I’m getting from them, collectively, is that they think it will be. (Because it will be.) We just don’t know how much the rigging will matter.

Why do I say it will be rigged? Because whenever humans have motive, opportunity, a high upside gain, and low odds of detection, shenanigans happen 100% of the time. Our vote-counting systems have plenty of weak spots. Rigging (to some degree) is a near guarantee.

did you guys post the Cracked thing already? i know, Cracked.

http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-one-talks-about/

― scott seward, Thursday, October 20, 2016 12:27 PM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Regarding the Cracked thing, I have been thinking about starting a separate thread specifically based around the idea of trying to reconcile with these vast swaths of America that have drifted further and further to the right, sometimes against their own self-interest and pretty much always against the interests of humankind, as far as I'm concerned. Someone shared that Cracked article on fb the other day and while I thought some of it was a bunch of baloney, the basic idea that in order to fix America, we're going to need to understand and engage with these people is pretty important.

I'm in the middle of reading Strangers in Their Own Land by Arlie Russell Hochschild, which offers a more in-depth approach to a similar topic. I was going to wait to start engaging ilx with this topic until after the election had settled down (and I had finished the book), but I do want to learn more about problems faced by rural/red state citizens and what we can do to help them and keep our country from falling apart.

Uh, that "separate thread" should have been italics, not url code.

A couple of my white conservative-leaning friends were making a similar argument the other day, which effectively boiled down to "it is your responsibility as an educated black man to go befriend racist white people and make them non-racist". I decided not to engage.

Speaking of there ought to be a new thread with some catchy, refusing to concede style title for the final stretch imo

the basic idea that in order to fix America, we're going to need to understand and engage with these people is pretty important.

No we don't.

http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2016/10/yeah-sorry-but-fuck-donald-trumps.html

http://i.imgur.com/MhpVB.gif

100% agreement with TOMBOT

also lol nomar

Since when has it been necessary in any democracy to "understand and engage" with people who lose three elections in a row? That's just illustrating what Ta-nehisi and others have already said repeatedly - that all white grievance in the US is automatically treated as valid and important. We don't need to go out there and discover what makes these people tick. They live in dying communities, they don't want to change and they are terrified of black and brown people. They don't want any help. They hate us. The end.

It's not just that, but as how's life says, they're 'red state citizens', so the idea that they're the responsibility of Democrats and their constituents is ridiculous. Especially because so many of them are state righters as well. There's almost nothing to do for them, because they refuse to engage with anyone. They complain there's a health crisis, but vote for governors who withhold medicare expansion for them. What on earth are anyone supposed to do?

yep. the last two paragraphs of your link sum it up nicely

Why all this hate, huh? Why can't I just be a nice, empathetic liberal? Because we're no longer dealing with anything approaching a rational opponent. Today, John McCain said in an interview that Republicans in the Senate would block any Supreme Court nominee from a President Hillary Clinton. "I promise you that we will be united against any Supreme Court nominee that Hillary Clinton, if she were president, would put up," McCain really did say.

So we're facing a party that is trying to prevent people from voting, with a nominee that is actively inciting people to possible violence in order to undermine the very democracy that got him this goddamn far, and has elected officials who have made it their jobs to simply undo the will of the majority of Americans. I ain't playing nice with shitheels and ratfuckers, and I won't abide pompous blowhards and the fools who follow them.

No we don't.

http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2016/10/yeah-sorry-but-fuck-donald-trumps.html

― El Tomboto, Thursday, October 20, 2016 3:01 PM (eleven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

good link

politically suppressing/oppressing minorities is wrong but these people aren't oppressed in any meaningful sense of the term. they get to vote, they have free speech, they receive the benefits of civil society - they are fully integrated into the American political landscape. acting like somehow we are obliged to get along with them is ridiculous.

xp

Well, I think there are people who are in pain who are just fucking morons. I'm not talking about Trump himself or the die-hards who are still cleaving to him, but the people who regularly vote Republican because that's the Christian party or because "jobs". I would like to think we can do things to help them and change their minds without compromising our own progressive direction. Maybe we just haven't thought of what to do yet. Like I said, I don't personally know what to do but I'm eager to learn more. Democrats are the party of helping people through government, right?

btw
"I will keep you in suspense" - US Elections 2016: the Final Thread