Chapo Trap House and the rise of the dirtbag left

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For the uninitiated, CTH is a very popular (to the tune of $30k+ per month coming in via Pateron) podcast by a group of foul-mouthed socialists with a tendency to tear into liberals with just as much (if not more) zeal than conservatives. They were recently profiled/critiqued in the New Yorker. The episode in which they respond to the article (mostly by viciously mocking the author and the New Yorker in general) is a decent introduction. There's also a critique of the critique, of course.

I'm interested in this growing notion of the "dirtbag left" and the increasing ranks of the DSA, which I recognize are partly separate phenomena. (There is an amusing schism in their demo between the very young and the very old.)

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Wednesday, 4 January 2017 01:11 (four years ago) link

This was probably the best intro I ever read:

http://splitsider.com/2016/09/explaining-the-chapo-trap-house-podcast-to-the-uninitiated/

Which gets into the reference-heavy jag the show occasionally launches off on.

THE SKURJ OF FAKE NEWS. (kingfish), Wednesday, 4 January 2017 01:17 (four years ago) link

these dudes sound pretty unpleasant tbh

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 4 January 2017 01:22 (four years ago) link

I follow some dem socialists on Twitter and it took me like three goddamn months that it was a podcast and not just some sort of weird meme

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Wednesday, 4 January 2017 01:23 (four years ago) link

Can someone explain to me how this podcast and its Patreon patrons are connected to progressive causes by something stronger than the tether between Hot Shots: Part Deux and the US Navy?

The beaver is not the bad guy (El Tomboto), Wednesday, 4 January 2017 01:25 (four years ago) link

I have only heard a few recent episodes, but the divide in airtime between vulgar comic riffs and actual discussion/intvws is pretty much 50/50

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Wednesday, 4 January 2017 01:27 (four years ago) link

to answer yr question more directly Tombot I have seen a *lot* of tweets w/ CTH fans flaunting their newly received Socialist Organizer mailers/cards, anecdotal certainly but not nothing

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Wednesday, 4 January 2017 01:31 (four years ago) link

They're still spending way too much time complaining about Hillary, the election and their critics. I find it amusing enough as a light podcast for driving but they're going to have to move on to keep listeners.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Wednesday, 4 January 2017 01:33 (four years ago) link

a vigorous and funny response to the alt-right is probably a good thing, but this just sounds like a load of jerks being jerks

iatee otm

illbient microtonal poetry Surbiton (imago), Wednesday, 4 January 2017 01:33 (four years ago) link

This sounds pretty 'edgy'. I'll be interested to see what these guys do once they're out of high school.

DJ Untz Hall (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 4 January 2017 01:38 (four years ago) link

I find it amusing enough as a light podcast for driving but they're going to have to move on to keep listeners.

Agreed, I think this will be a necessity after the inauguration anyway

tbh I mostly enjoy their eviscerations of liberal commentators/thinkers - fish in a barrel, sure, but undeniably satisfying

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Wednesday, 4 January 2017 01:39 (four years ago) link

Have never listened to the show, read the article, I think i follow a couple of them on twitter. I hadn't realized they responded to the article with vicious mockery on their show, that's kind of a bummer since I saw them responding to outraged CTH devotees on twitter with essentially "chill the fuck out, it was a pretty good profile."

JoeStork, Wednesday, 4 January 2017 01:39 (four years ago) link

in the following episode they emphasized that they were embarrassed by people defending them

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Wednesday, 4 January 2017 01:40 (four years ago) link

I think the 'jerks being jerks' stuff is overstated. I've listened to 10-12 eps now and there's nothing really offensive? They pick on dweeby Twitter people and pundits.

The episodes where they read from Ross Douthat and Megan McCardle's books are the best I've heard, followed by the interview with Adam Curtis.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Wednesday, 4 January 2017 01:47 (four years ago) link

Can someone explain to me how this podcast and its Patreon patrons are connected to progressive causes by something stronger than the tether between Hot Shots: Part Deux and the US Navy?

It's an Air America show that can survive on its listener base, I don't think anyone's expecting them to start a revolution with a podcast. It's amusing to listen to a talk show with an actual left-wing viewpoint.

At least some of them are active with DSA and similar groups but they're also just relatively privileged liberal arts college NYC alt-media people.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Wednesday, 4 January 2017 01:51 (four years ago) link

I'm realizing I could have asked the same question about Das Racist (RIP) and gotten kind of the same answer and it would have been fine. Why I felt the need to ask it of a podcast as if that requires a different kind of "authentic" pedigree is weird, and my thinking needs unpacking on that

The beaver is not the bad guy (El Tomboto), Wednesday, 4 January 2017 02:00 (four years ago) link

Can someone explain to me how this podcast and its Patreon patrons are connected to dirtbag causes?

rap is dad (it's a boy!), Wednesday, 4 January 2017 02:35 (four years ago) link

I think I need it explained to me how they are not directly related

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Wednesday, 4 January 2017 03:20 (four years ago) link

I've listened to most episodes, it's a great podcast. Their coverage of the primaries was often very funny. An early ep had a great guest who detailed the situation w teacher strikes in Mexico. Occasionally they do succumb to the more deluded and counter productive tendencies of hardcore Berners though.

Nerdstrom Poindexter, Wednesday, 4 January 2017 03:43 (four years ago) link

i'll out myself. matt's a thoughtful guy. felix is lol in most moods and he reminds me eerily of turkey-obsessed college friends i miss; also i found his les mis reading compelling. will clearly guides the whole thing and holds episodes together but imo is the blankest when he goes on the attack. some episodes really are just them giggling at their own press clips. thought it was completely hilarious that their william f buckley impression was actually a capt. peter peachfuzz impression.

difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 4 January 2017 04:40 (four years ago) link

obviously the keep it negative dickhole zing crew should run podcasting

Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, 4 January 2017 04:42 (four years ago) link

I don't think "keep it negative" is a fair summation of their worldview

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Wednesday, 4 January 2017 04:44 (four years ago) link

a vigorous and funny response to the alt-right is probably a good thing, but this just sounds like a load of jerks being jerks

maybe if we brainstormed some more descriptions of trump's hair

difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 4 January 2017 04:49 (four years ago) link

afaict they're in the same gen x/millenial straddler segment as a bunch of my peers, sneer at the gen x detachment and corporate institutions equally, and are well-versed in the web communities that predate the 4chan weird bullshit, parallel to or members of somethingawful and other shit of the time

idk it's a thing where every political opinion coming from them seems like a deep-seated reaction from living through the late 90s and early 00s and that's the lens

mh 😏, Wednesday, 4 January 2017 04:49 (four years ago) link

douthat rip is savage

I'm trying to catch up to the Trap House but these things are like 90 minutes long. I'm on episode 4. By the time they're talking about current events, Trump's first term will be over

Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, 4 January 2017 05:24 (four years ago) link

I thoroughly enjoy the Chapo Trap House. When I first discovered it it felt like a real catharsis to hear other people roughly my age or a little younger shredding New Democratism and bad centrist punditry of both liberal and conservative varieties but not in a lefty crank, counterpunch sort of way.

I can't say I love the new format with more regulars and preferred the dynamic of just Felix-Matt-Will. I like Amber and Virgil Texas individually I just don't feel like the show works as well with them regularly participating.

the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Wednesday, 4 January 2017 05:27 (four years ago) link

ALSO as I think we talked about a little on the podcast thread, it seems harder for them to find their footing in a Trump world, now that the irrelevant centrist punditry has actually been rendered irrelevant.

the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Wednesday, 4 January 2017 05:39 (four years ago) link

I'm trying to catch up to the Trap House but these things are like 90 minutes long. I'm on episode 4.

I've found that playback at 1.25x speed can be your friend.

THE SKURJ OF FAKE NEWS. (kingfish), Wednesday, 4 January 2017 05:52 (four years ago) link

i couldn't get through an episode of this, even though i generally agree with them

it just... isn't funny at all, or insightful. probably because the things that are funny and insightful in sad leftist twitter aren't funny outside of sad leftist twitter

qualx, Wednesday, 4 January 2017 06:16 (four years ago) link

Whiney, just listen to the Freeway Ross Douthat episode then skip to current events. Discussing the conventions doesn't really work as entertainment six months after the fact.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Wednesday, 4 January 2017 06:20 (four years ago) link

being a completionist about a politics podcast is the most onion a/v club thing i've ever heard

qualx, Wednesday, 4 January 2017 06:22 (four years ago) link

I tried to listen to an episode but I just found it unbearable, but I realize I should have listened before I read that interview they did with Paste, which is hands down the most embarrassing thing I read last year: https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2016/07/chapo-trap-house-are-the-vulgar-brilliant-demigods.html

self-clowning oven (Murgatroid), Wednesday, 4 January 2017 06:24 (four years ago) link

i've encountered enough asshole know-it-all leftists on twitter (including at least one of the chapo guys, i think) that i haven't exactly been eager to give this a try.

Wozniak on Kimye's Baby (jaymc), Wednesday, 4 January 2017 06:25 (four years ago) link

"I haven't listened to this but I don't like it based on reading an article about it" is the most boring and non-contributing thing you can possibly say.

the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Wednesday, 4 January 2017 06:28 (four years ago) link

Except I did listen to it?

self-clowning oven (Murgatroid), Wednesday, 4 January 2017 06:29 (four years ago) link

Like, "I tried to listen to an episode" is the first goddamn thing I say in my post

self-clowning oven (Murgatroid), Wednesday, 4 January 2017 06:30 (four years ago) link

They do definitely reflect the worst of leftist Twitter at times. Like it's clear from recent episodes their way of continuing in Trump World will be to still hammer Clinton relentlessly land act like centrist democrats are worse than actual fascists. They are really mad at Hillary for losing to Trump when all I heard from them for months was that she was just as bad.

Nerdstrom Poindexter, Wednesday, 4 January 2017 07:13 (four years ago) link

The show works better for me when Matt or Amber bring up something that show they've done a but more homework on this stuff.

My particular fave episodes are stuff like having on Adam Curtis, Matt Karp on his book on Antebellum American politics setting up race science and eugenics shit trickling down to Breitbart, or even the pilot ep of sorts where they excoriate the weird mentality behind Michael Bay's "13 Hours."

THE SKURJ OF FAKE NEWS. (kingfish), Wednesday, 4 January 2017 07:23 (four years ago) link

xp p sure they're mad at hillary for beating bernie with the weight of the DNC behind her, propping up trump as an easy win and then running an embarrassing general election campaign built on "of course i'll win"

qualx, Wednesday, 4 January 2017 07:45 (four years ago) link

and given that this toolbag seems to be the presumptive 2020 favorite of the DNC, which has not shown any indication of shifting platform aside from a few pockets of support for keith ellison, keeping the fire under the democrats might be the only thing that saves us from 4 additional years of actual fascism

qualx, Wednesday, 4 January 2017 07:49 (four years ago) link

Nerderik P.

salthigh, Wednesday, 4 January 2017 08:17 (four years ago) link

The "weight of the DNC" that Bernie's ramshackle campaign couldn't overcome but Obama could somehow. We can blame this vague "rigging" for Bernie's loss (and not acknowledge that maybe he should campaigned in the south) but can't admit the Comey letter had an effect on Hillary's?

After the primary was pretty much over they called the differences between Trump and Clinton "a wash". Matt Christman perpetuated the deluded idea that the Bernie delegates at the Nevada caucus were "disenfranchised", just as one example. Granted it wasn't the job of the left to get Hillary elected (I'd have personally preferred Bernie for a number of reasons) but you don't get to act mad at her campaign for losing when you perpetuated the equivalency narrative throughout the campaign. Many Dems have been able to acknowledge that she was a vulnerable candidate that we were stuck with because not enough people ran but it seems like it would literally kill many on the left to just say "we got carried away".

Also, encouraging people to spread "Bernie Would've Won" memes is pretty asshole-ish and counter productive but I don't know maybe stopping actual fascism will require purging People who don't hate Hillary but I could be wrong.

Nerdstrom Poindexter, Wednesday, 4 January 2017 08:23 (four years ago) link

but you don't get to act mad at her campaign for losing when you perpetuated the equivalency narrative throughout the campaign

You kind of do? I listened to the post-DNC podcasts and a lot of commentary revolved around things that seemed iffy even at the time when it seemed like a lock - trotting out Mike Bloomberg, the lineup of neocon security/military people lining up for Hillary, etc.. It goes back to 2000/2002 - if you're going to present Republican-lite as the face of the party why wouldn't the voters who are into that just vote for real Republicans? They were also right back then on focusing on decency being poor judgement.

Were the Hillary fainting jokes in bad taste? Sure. That's still the most tiresome part of the podcast, but it's also a fairly small part of it.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Wednesday, 4 January 2017 08:33 (four years ago) link

Funny thing about Bloomberg is we was one of the few convention speakers who got kind of a positive reaction from the Bernie or busters there when he mentioned that he described himself as an "independent" what or John Lewis got anti-tpp chants. There was definitely messaging problems w HRC's campaign but given the consequences of the election (potential loss of social programs for one) people with visibility on the left seemed reluctant to encourage voting for the obviously better choice of the corny old lady and pickedvthr campsign apart for things all high level campaigns do becuae they were probably confident she was going to win anyway.

Nerdstrom Poindexter, Wednesday, 4 January 2017 08:55 (four years ago) link

Also, encouraging people to spread "Bernie Would've Won" memes is pretty asshole-ish and counter productive but I don't know maybe stopping actual fascism will require purging People who don't hate Hillary but I could be wrong.

― Nerdstrom Poindexter, Wednesday, January 4, 2017 3:23 AM (twenty-two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i don't think spreading memes has ever been productive in any direction

seriously didn't realize there were still people aside from high ranking democrat pols and frederik who think the answer to defeating trumpism over the next 4 years is to double down on the 2016 strategy

this is some gluing humpty dumpty together again shit

qualx, Wednesday, 4 January 2017 09:00 (four years ago) link

that Bernie's ramshackle campaign couldn't overcome but Obama could somehow

yeah it's almost like these are two different candidates running on entirely different platforms with entirely different relationships to the DNC

how close are you to running out the "of course the DNC sank bernie, he wasn't a member of their party!" argument that was briefly popular 8 months ago in an entirely different america

qualx, Wednesday, 4 January 2017 09:04 (four years ago) link

Yes, Mike Bloomberg is a well-known figure on the socialist lecture circuit. Hugely popular on the left. Yuge.

It is a reminder that the one thing worse than jokes about Hillary's medical problems is the narrative around BernieBros and "Bernie or Busters" where whatever ills that pop into your head can be ascribed to them.

The fundamental disconnect here appears to be your belief that the left's issue with Clinton is that she was "corny."

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Wednesday, 4 January 2017 09:06 (four years ago) link

xxp obvs

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Wednesday, 4 January 2017 09:06 (four years ago) link

I never said "everything was perfect w HRC's messaging except that leftist twitter and this podcast didn't like it". I'd have preferred a different candidate but Hillary won the primary, she was obviously the better candidate compared to Trump. When you vote for a candidate you are voting a coalition into office. Making equivrlrncies beyeeen her and Trump was ridiculous then (kind of offensive actually when you put in perspective ) and looks even more ridiculous now. Maybe you can post the photo of them at a party together I've seen a million times and I'll withdraw that.

We have social media, we know the left got "carried away" I don''t see the point in denying that base level reality. I mean people were literally crying st the convention because they thought Bernie would get the nomination somehow.

Nerdstrom Poindexter, Wednesday, 4 January 2017 09:12 (four years ago) link

my god adam mckay brings out the worst in them

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 16 April 2021 13:35 (three weeks ago) link

https://frqncy.live/frqncy1/

Producer Chris is starting a podcast/music festival co-op

Joe Bombin (milo z), Friday, 16 April 2021 17:32 (three weeks ago) link

I mean, anything is worth a shot when it comes to supporting musicians and venues I guess

intern at pepe le pew research (Simon H.), Friday, 16 April 2021 17:39 (three weeks ago) link

New premium with Jacob Bacharach v funny and v mean but still oddly touching

Shoulda made it a free ep. good content to share w non-listeners

Washington Generals D-League affiliate (will), Friday, 23 April 2021 20:13 (two weeks ago) link

Hunter and Joe are the farce to W and HW’s tragedy, including the fall of a favored older son.

Joe Bombin (milo z), Friday, 23 April 2021 21:53 (two weeks ago) link

Blowback is good and fun.

intern at pepe le pew research (Simon H.), Sunday, 25 April 2021 01:29 (two weeks ago) link

I mean, yknow, "fun"

intern at pepe le pew research (Simon H.), Sunday, 25 April 2021 01:30 (two weeks ago) link

It was funny watching people on Twitter get mad at Slate for stealing the idea of doing a podcast about the Iraq War from Blowback. Imagine if there had been two books about the Iraq War!

Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Sunday, 25 April 2021 19:18 (two weeks ago) link

I saw more people getting mad at the framing (poor poor CIA just got tricked!).

Joe Bombin (milo z), Sunday, 25 April 2021 19:39 (two weeks ago) link

don't think i am physically able to finish listening to the Jake Tapper article.

JoeStork, Saturday, 1 May 2021 18:01 (one week ago) link

unfortunate that these dudes ran with the kamala's book given to refugees story that was completely false

officer sonny bonds, lytton pd (mayor jingleberries), Saturday, 1 May 2021 19:43 (one week ago) link

it's been sad seeing some online leftists eagerly spreading right-wing disinfo about Dems (see also the "Biden Loves Wall" story whose only source was the Washington Times). am I right that the sole source for the Harris story was Breaking911? embarrassing

rob, Saturday, 1 May 2021 20:21 (one week ago) link

beyond foreign policy the chapos mostly haven't been very strongly anti biden so far

intern at pepe le pew research (Simon H.), Saturday, 1 May 2021 21:16 (one week ago) link

melts

Left, Saturday, 1 May 2021 21:29 (one week ago) link

They’ve ceded the reliving the primaries forever lane to Bad Faith.

Joe Bombin (milo z), Saturday, 1 May 2021 21:58 (one week ago) link

I've never engaged in the slightest with these cunts since they seemed to think using disablist slurs was so so edgy, bunch of fucking arseholes

calzino, Saturday, 1 May 2021 23:35 (one week ago) link

in our country, calling someone a cunt is insane misogyny so idk

mh, Sunday, 2 May 2021 01:09 (one week ago) link

that is a bad equivalence seeing as women use it just as much as men over here whereas the disablist word is unequivocally ugly everywhere, and with all due respect .. fuck your country.

calzino, Sunday, 2 May 2021 07:44 (one week ago) link

fair

mh, Sunday, 2 May 2021 14:03 (one week ago) link

sorry if I was a bit brusque mh, but I thought you were about to start a "let's do lawyer-routine on the r-word" challenge.

calzino, Sunday, 2 May 2021 15:28 (one week ago) link

Cmon now guys. Fuck all countries.

maf you one two (maffew12), Sunday, 2 May 2021 17:19 (one week ago) link

yep

calzino, Sunday, 2 May 2021 17:24 (one week ago) link

Ok then maybe dont use it on a board American women post on, asshole

Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Sunday, 2 May 2021 23:43 (one week ago) link

Giving you ‘asshole’ as preferred alternative btw

Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Sunday, 2 May 2021 23:51 (one week ago) link

Not british enough. “Wanker” is a really funny and good one imo.

treeship., Monday, 3 May 2021 01:45 (one week ago) link

Tosser also good.

Joe Bombin (milo z), Monday, 3 May 2021 02:10 (one week ago) link

Is nonce too serious now?

Joe Bombin (milo z), Monday, 3 May 2021 02:10 (one week ago) link

Let's ask Elon Musk.

bobo honkin' slobo babe (sic), Monday, 3 May 2021 02:46 (one week ago) link

“pedo guy”

Washington Generals D-League affiliate (will), Monday, 3 May 2021 12:41 (one week ago) link

hey President Twat, fuck your country twice!

calzino, Monday, 3 May 2021 12:47 (one week ago) link

I am wounded

Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Monday, 3 May 2021 13:19 (one week ago) link

I don't know if the Chapos still use the r slur but they did when I was listening regularly and tbf it was super shitty, an instance of their sneering at lib sanctimoniousness spilling over into just being assholes for the sake of it.

The fact that the reaction to calz bringing that up itt was this whataboutery is nagl.

Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, 4 May 2021 09:12 (six days ago) link

I'm probably at fault here to some degree as well really - I should had adequately got this out of my system by now and took the better option of ignoring the thread forevermore!

calzino, Tuesday, 4 May 2021 09:16 (six days ago) link

I didn’t mean that as whataboutery as much as I was poking fun at calz, which made our following comments that much funnier

mh, Wednesday, 5 May 2021 14:35 (five days ago) link

Primates as types of guy was good riffing.

Joe Bombin (milo z), Wednesday, 5 May 2021 14:56 (five days ago) link

It's too bad that more podcasts can't do the ALAB thing of just releasing eps whenever they have time and feel like it - every episode is enjoyable and consistent whether it's light or heavy.

intern at pepe le pew research (Simon H.), Wednesday, 5 May 2021 18:35 (five days ago) link

also I am beginning to suspect that podcasts are generally more enjoyable when the hosts' day job isn't "podcaster"

intern at pepe le pew research (Simon H.), Wednesday, 5 May 2021 18:36 (five days ago) link

I’m reminded of something Tony Wilson wrote in his book on Factory Records, about never fully quitting your dayjob because you’ll detach from regular people and become like Bono

Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Thursday, 6 May 2021 20:15 (four days ago) link

looking forward to bono trap house

the mai tai quinn (voodoo chili), Thursday, 6 May 2021 20:24 (four days ago) link

releasing podcasts whenever you have something to say does not build you an audience. people just want their scheduled chatter on tuesdays and the fridays even if the quality wavers.

in twelve parts (lamonti), Saturday, 8 May 2021 08:48 (two days ago) link

I am aware of the perils of the "release when you have something to say" model

intern at pepe le pew research (Simon H.), Saturday, 8 May 2021 14:29 (two days ago) link

Ask Glenn Danzig

Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Saturday, 8 May 2021 14:41 (two days ago) link

Chapo adjacent podcast And Introducing is currently doing a very fun Our Band Could Be Your Life series of episodes, although if you've read the book, there's not a lot more going on, but fun to hear people chat about it. Felix is on the Replacements ep.

in twelve parts (lamonti), Sunday, 9 May 2021 20:05 (yesterday) link

Regular pod releasing when you’re a one- or two-person operation can be a very difficult process

Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Sunday, 9 May 2021 23:32 (yesterday) link

I am gearing up a new (film) pod, maybe, and it'll be monthly and a strictly limited run for exactly that reason lol

intern at pepe le pew research (Simon H.), Monday, 10 May 2021 00:10 (seven hours ago) link

biweekly works ok for me, weekly would kill me

I used to do biweekly and am now monthly. Too much other work going on.

but also fuck you (unperson), Monday, 10 May 2021 01:21 (five hours ago) link

I keep thinking about starting a pod but the ROI seems absolutely idiotic

bruce spr!ngisH3r3 (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, 10 May 2021 02:33 (four hours ago) link

And Introducing is never really satisfying but I like Chris and Molly. It works much better when they’re into the band than only vaguely aware.

Joe Bombin (milo z), Monday, 10 May 2021 03:07 (four hours ago) link

I’m still cracking up about a guy I knew starring a podcast in the early days, right after Apple latched on to the coining of “podcasts” starting one with a “beet” non-pun in the title and it just being him editing bad riffing with friends together

they could have made it if he’d tried later. but not too late

mh, Monday, 10 May 2021 03:22 (three hours ago) link


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