When Is It Time To Say "No More" and Break Up With Someone?

this 'unhealthy' relationship still provides some support [finacial as well as] and some sort of, uh, interaction that you think you'd be completely without [in the immediate] if you finished it up? [I think I am just repeating you now].

'healthy'+lonely [poss.]+money touble [but for YOU]+just A CHANGE which could jump-start bettah things Vs. 'unhealthy'+uncertainty+dependancy+just A CONTINUATION of something which may only be adding to your unhappiness etc.

I see other people have posted too. and not *hugz*.

Is there any possible means of you two living apart for a small while? Or would that be too expensive?

RJG: Yes, that's basically it in a nutshell. I'm not so worried about being "lonely" as much as A. jumping ship too soon when it's not comepletely dead and/or B. "making the same mistake again", having to look at myself in the mirror, deal with my friend's and family's (silent or otherwise) derision. Which is just pride, and can be overriden if necessary, so mostly A. There is a life which could be easily waiting for me if I decided to end this of considerably less financial stress, so the only reason to keep it going is if I still have feelings for the other person. Which I do.

Independence really is the key. It is something that I have (continually) put off in my life in lieu of finding happiness with/through others. (This is not to say that I haven't been happy - even blissfully so - with those people at times.) Unfortunately, it's not something that I have the space or money for right now. Finding independence and my own space would mean ending the relationship. Ending the relationship would mean basically having to cut this person out of my life completely, at least in an intimate sense for reasons of geography. I need to find a way to solidify myself - not even in the context of the relationship - before I can work on the relationship. Which is hard when I'm stuck in the thick of it.

All those things you're wrestling with are only going to feed off each other and become more intolerable and powerful unless you find a way ON YOUR OWN to fight through them. Even if someone else can help you through, it's going to taint your relationship with that person, even if they want to help you more than anything in the world, especially if that person's willing to sacrifice themselves (to whatever extent) for your benefit. The best thing you can do, from what I (a complete & total stranger, mind you), is address the problems that you are dealing with, and find ways to remedy those. Maybe getting a job (wherever) will get you talking to other folks while fixing the moolah situation. Or maybe breaking up with your girlfriend will force you to meet other people and let your guard down. Yeah, it sounds bullshitty, but there's some truth in that.

I know I'm already overstepping my bounds as an impartial observer. Hell, I did the minute I started typing. Speaking as someone that's coped with / is coping with depression and related maladies on a day-to-day basis (hour-to-hour / minute-to-minute), the best thing you can do is take care of yourself above all else. That might mean getting some space from your girlfriend, but from what I can glean, it might be for the better - better to lose a lover than lose a friend.

(I might be redundant w/ what I typed, given what folks have posted while I was typing, but I'll leave everything as is, for what it's worth.)

so, you need to let her know what yer thinking and tell her what you need [=her time+your time]. +hopefully she feels the same as you and you're able to sort it out so that it is fix-ed. but I guess that's it...your thoughts aren't so bad that you'd hurt her by telling her...and she needs to know if you can work it [can't do it by yourself].

[might be redundant etc. too].

Why, yes. I am out of my fucking mind. Thanks for noticing.

In a nutshell, I see at least two major problems on the surface:

1 - Your relationship with her.
2 - Your relationship with you.

Let's keep sorting...

Your relationship with her:
a) Inasmuch as I can gather, there is a geographical distance
b) She is exceptionally busy, leaving presumably, little time in her life for her relationship with you
c) In spite of her own busyness, she resents the cocooning effect of your introversion -- perhaps by interpreting it as a withdrawal of love and affection
d) Discontent has become apparent in the form of fighting
e) You love her

Your relationship with you:
f) You are depressed, with a history of depression
g) Although you don't state how she might feel about it (i.e., possibly resentful), you certainly imply that you feel you are asking too much of her (I have been relying on her for everything for quite some time now.)
h) You are withdrawing from the world.
i) You also mention a that "personality-wise" you haven't been able to have face to face discussions.
j) You state that you're not "financially supporting" at the moment
k) There is a dangling tidbit that promises an "easy out"

There is a third factor at play here too, because when two people come together they create a third entity called "US". But we'll get to that in a bit. Let's look at the fixingness factor first -- we're going to start with you.

To begin with you are depressed. You need to take care of that. I don't know if you have sought medical treatment for your depression, but if not, please do bear in mind that it is a condition, not a personal failing. There are numerous causes that fuel depression that go far beyond simply feeling sorry for yourself. We live in a society that is inclined to tell depressives, "Just think positive. Put on a happy face. Snap out of it. White knuckle it." We have an even higher expectation of men in this regard. True clinical depression however is an illness, no different than say, heart disease. And it would be foolish to try and white-knuckle it through a heart attack -- as if a stiff upper lip alone could ward off the pain and the damage -- now wouldn't it?

So many of the factors that are in "your list" ... your introversion, your lack of self-worth, perhaps your inability to hold a job (you don't state this explicitly, but I'm assuming that you're not working at the moment, or at least not working at the capacity you feel you *should* be capable of)... all those are intimately tied to your depression. I really feel that item right there has to take first priority above everything else. When a person is in a depressed state, everything they see, touch, and do can be distorted by the depression. You could be the most wonderful person on the face of the planet, and you can't see it. You could be partnered with the most ideal partner for you, and you can't see it. Depression skews one's vision of reality. I don't know how you can begin to make your relationship well, until you yourself begin to get well.

Therefore, I urge you to be kind to yourself. If you haven't already, see a supportive doctor. Have a full battery of medical tests done. There are numerous medical conditions that can cause or mimic depression, including diabetes, anemia, and thyroid conditions. Consider a trial of anti-depressant medication if you haven't already. If you're already on anti-depressants, they don't appear to be helping you. Perhaps there's a different medication out there that would provide a better fit. Bear in mind, depression or therapy with anti-depressants is not a life sentence. You may require only a short stint to provide your body with what it needs to get over this hump.

Okay, moving on to your relationship...

As Jody Beth notes, sometimes it can be liberating to end a relationship. I've been in that position myself whereby I felt more relieved by the end, than pained by it. And maybe it will come to that at some point but I'm sensing that's not the space you're in -- you clearly state that you still love her. I don't think you'd feel relieved to lose her.

I do however, recommend a time-out. Not necessarily a break or even a separation in the relationship, but a break from looking at the problems in the relationship. Give yourself a bit of time to get your health back so that you're on a level playing field. While you're doing that, just put those problems between you in a small pot on the back burner for awhile -- peek in on them once in a while but don't try to fix them. Do however continue to love each other. Find one small thing everyday that you can do for her, just because you love her. And be polite. We can be terrible at that when we get used to a person being in our lives. We stop saying "please" and "thank-you". We stop feeling gratitude for the gift of their presence in our lives.
This is something we're not exactly taught. How to "love through". Instead, what we often learn is that love is a weapon; a tool for getting what we want. If someone is nice to us, we give them love. If they're not nice, well, we know what that asshole is getting for dinner, don't we? But do you know, there is absolutely no law that says when you are fighting with someone you cannot stop in the middle of that and say, "You know, I'm really angry and I'm really frustrated right now, but I want you to know that I love you and I'm here for the long haul."

Meanwhile, so many of us, when we get into a relationship we look to the other as our helpmate, and if we're ailing we often have this expectation hidden in the back of our minds that the other person is *supposed to* help us. After all, we're suffering -- don't they love us? Don't they care?! However, it sounds as if you and your girlfriend's own personal plates are so full that there's just not enough room there to help the other. So instead, butt your back up against hers and resolve to be in it together. You may find that the causes of so many of those problems are not each other -- they're just life.

Hmmmm. I've rattled on for quite a bit here but I suppose it's a start. As for hugs, sentiment be damned... give yourself one. You're probably a very good person going through a very difficult time and you need to develop a little self-mercy, a little self-compassion. Depression sucks. And there's something else, you need to let others in. It's really okay to be all fucked-up from time to time. Sooner or later, it happens to all of us. It is the nature of life to bring you to your knees from time to time. I've been there, and when I was, I had some damned fine people remind me that I still had value, I still had worth. It's how the milk of human kindness flows. When you're done drinking from it, you just pass it on.

Take care. Hang in there.

And for what it's worth...

{{{{{Hugs}}}}}

i was in a similar situation five months ago and made all the wrong decisions. now there's not an hour of my life that goes by where i don't regret my actions and miss that person profoundly. so -> if you're going to do anything drastic, be SURE that you're doing it for the right reasons.

another side effect of depression is that it often directly leads to relationship self-sabotage (look it up). it's very easy to confuse your feelings about the state of the relationship with your feelings about what is 'right' in the long term.

lastly, it may seem counterintuitive to do this at a time when you're fighting, but your best recourse in this situation might be to go to her with everything you've said here. not in a confrontational or love-wielding sort of way, but in the manner of one friend appealing to another. the more you shut her out, especially in the context of your life right now, the more you're feeding into feelings of complete and utter isolation. she might appreciate the honesty and learn to re-interpret your introverted behaviour while you get other stuff sorted out.

also: chaki is a cockfarmer. thank you.

I agree mark. I think too, that when a person is in any state of illness, one of the things we do in an attempt to heal is to try to root out the underlying cause. For a depressive, that means asking ourselves, "Why am I so damned unhappy?" and then we look for something we can hitch our unhappiness to. Sometimes we fault an unhappy childhood, sometimes a dysfunctional relationship in our past; often, our present partner/relationship will do quite well, thank you very much. The pay-off in this kind of diagnosis is that it allows us a measure of control at a time when we may feel our sense of control spiralling away. After all, it feel so much better to have precision in our lives... to be able to say 2+2=4. And perhaps we lean on that sort of rationale because typically it works. You hit your thumb with a hammer and it hurts! It's just that in depression, there doesn't have to be a hammer -- depression itself is the hammer.

There's a lot of talk and speculation in the medical community about why the rate of depression is growing the way it is. Have we simply become a "pop a pill" society? Are we taking the easy way out? Those are questions that are worthy of asking, but there are no clear cut answers. We know that brain chemistry often plays a role. So too can past trauma. As well, conditions like ADHD and disorders such as obsessive-compuliveness are now being treated with anti-depressants, so that ups the ante when the useage reports come rolling in. Part of the upsurge is due to the fact that science itself has created a better anti-depressant with fewer side effects than the old ones meaning they're now safer to prescribe. (Sexual dysfunction remains a common side effect, but there are several antidepressants that don't carry that burden, specifically: Wellbutrin, Serzone and Manerix.) Too, society has learned to alter their approach to "mental illness" -- we better understand that the mind can become ill just as the body can. It can also become well again.

We also know that certain physical disorders such as I've cited (anemia, diabetes, thyroid disorders -- there are certainly others) can mimic depression. The balance of the hormonal system also plays a critical role in some cases (think: PMS). In addition, at least some studies have suggested that the food/agricultural industry plays a role by producing food that is not as nutrionally superior as it once was by growing the same on soil stripped of vital mineral content. Of course, the rampantness of "supersizing" and a diet bolstered by pure junk food doesn't help our bodies much either. One of the more interesting correlations I've read had to do with the increasing rate of thyroid disorders in children around the globe following Chernobyl. The hypothesis is that nuclear fall-out is destroying the thyroid gland -- if you have thyroid cancer, the docs will give you a nuclear milkshake to drink -- one dose is all it take to kill your thyroid gland -- one of the end results of a damaged thyroid gland is depression.

So, as you can see, there's really any number of underlying causes and plenty more that can be learned about this baffling and debilitating disorder. It is even more mysterious to those who have never battled with the black beast.

Remember, she's a Sagittarius.

when you're

"getting a little tired and tired of [their] broken promises promises, looking at [their] pager seeing different numbers and numbers, call [them] on the cell [they] hangin with the fellas the fellas, hanging with [your] girls [they] always gettin jealous 'n jealous"

If this isn't the case, maybe the "no more" chorus doesn't follow.