rolling explaining conservatism

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taxes are theft; therefore, democrats are criminals

reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 02:58 (three years ago) link

selfishness is too a virtue

reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 02:59 (three years ago) link

Making people's lives better is not a function of the state. The state's job is to get out of the way so the market can make people's lives better*.

*or not

scattered, smothered, covered, diced and chunked (WilliamC), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 03:00 (three years ago) link

wasn't it Jeremy Clarkson that said something once like "governments should build park benches and leave us alone"

waht, I am true black metal worrior (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 03:03 (three years ago) link

if your parents don't have enough money, nothing you do matters

reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 03:11 (three years ago) link

job security is a necessary evil to coerce the talented

reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 03:29 (three years ago) link

if you weren't forced to pay taxes, you could just afford things on your own like insurance and private police protection

waht, I am true black metal worrior (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 03:31 (three years ago) link

in my very amateurish opinion modern conservativism has two major planks:

1) denial of any link between capitalism and the undermining of traditional values.
2) strict and explicit separation of society into categories of, let's say, "elect" and "damned" (those deserving of privilege, security, etc. and those undeserving...white supremacy is obviously a huge part of this)

ryan, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 03:40 (three years ago) link

All conservatism is the rationalization and preservation of privilege. The hatefulness and nastiness that seems to travel with it has always been there, but obviously people have had different expectations throughout history about what's uncouth and which are the parts you aren't supposed to say out loud.

Scalzi's essay is a tad goofy but I liked his nerdy explanation of privilege: "In the role playing game known as The Real World, “Straight White Male” is the lowest difficulty setting there is."

Any policies that increase egalitarianism in Western societies, by necessity, can be seen as mildly increasing the difficulty setting for Straight White Male. If you're not doing so great at The Real World, and you were already on the lowest difficulty setting, then something's clearly very wrong.

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 03:42 (three years ago) link

life is a golf course. climate change is a chinese hoax

reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 03:46 (three years ago) link

life is a golf ball, I wanna drive it all night long

waht, I am true black metal worrior (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 03:48 (three years ago) link

russian=socialists are the worst ever evil in the world, except when republican president donald trump houses and praises them. government is the problem, as well

reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 03:54 (three years ago) link

states' rights except when not

waht, I am true black metal worrior (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 03:55 (three years ago) link

I'd love to see Scalzi recite his essay to the corpse of a drug overdosed white person whose lost all realistic hope for his/her life. Americans don't know each other anymore.

larry appleton, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 03:56 (three years ago) link

that is not in his individual self-interest. individual self-interest is all that matters

reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 04:02 (three years ago) link

regulation gets in the way of businesses succeeding and makes capitalism not work. we shouldn't regulate wrongdoing out of existence - the market will react and put evildoing companies out of business. it's ok if 371 people die due to eating salmonella infected peanuts because AFTER those people die, people will boycott the brand!

We could have stopped those people from dying but that would have hurt Planters' sales and really when it boils down to it, aren't 371 lives worth it?

also the Holocaust never happened.

waht, I am true black metal worrior (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 04:04 (three years ago) link

People want the government to be run like a business, so that after a few years they can be surprised by a FOR LEASE sign on City Hall, and no idea what it might turn into next.

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 04:17 (three years ago) link

Maybe it will be a new coffee place, or a hair salon!

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 04:17 (three years ago) link

All white grievance is legitimate, especially hopelessness in the face of poverty

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 04:20 (three years ago) link

except for the four gospels, the judeo-christian bible is the literal word of god, bro

reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 04:24 (three years ago) link

All white grievance is legitimate, especially hopelessness in the face of poverty

― El Tomboto, Tuesday, March 7, 2017 4:20 AM (eleven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Ignoring suffering because of classism and identity politics is part of why we're here. People like you have blood on your hands... POC die because of attitudes like yours, which, on the surface, tries to celebrate them. But it's not out of concern for the lives of POC, but for your own narcissism and privilege, which you then flip on others less fortunate than yourself.

Liberalism and conservatism is the same side of the same coin at this point. Is it any wonder why we are where we are?

larry appleton, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 04:36 (three years ago) link

what would we do without you, larry

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 04:37 (three years ago) link

have you heard of this guy, jim goad? I think his books would grab you

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 04:38 (three years ago) link

Well, there was a reason I worked with an Obama appointee, you low-level bureaucratic waste. My ideas make sense and work, they're just not in vogue right now, because of snot wipes like you who want to sip glasses of wine while people suffer and die.

larry appleton, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 04:39 (three years ago) link

The funniest part of your schtick is that everything I've posted to this thread is either me actually linking to and quoting John Scalzi and the rest is ripped off from Ta-Nehisi Coates - I haven't expressed a single original opinion worth lashing out at. But you man, you got the solutions that make sense, and work!

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 04:42 (three years ago) link

beef is when I see you
guaranteed to be in ICU

but you won't have healthcare

waht, I am true black metal worrior (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 04:42 (three years ago) link

All conservatism is the rationalization and preservation of privilege.

fucking otm. all hoarding and no empathy. fuck you, got mine. what's that, an oppressed category of people wants equal treatment? get the fuck off my lawn. if you need quotas, that just means you females/non-whites/whatever are simply terrible at what you do. let the free market do its job because the free market is faultless*.

* at preserving old-timey privilege

Autumn Almanac, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 04:45 (three years ago) link

this is the angriest i've ever been this early in a thread

Autumn Almanac, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 04:46 (three years ago) link

anger is an energy. it's cool to frack oklahoma into earthquake hell, because profit

reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 04:52 (three years ago) link

the united states is a republic, not a democracy

reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 05:10 (three years ago) link

That one I've honestly never been able to figure out. It's a non sequitur beyond the rest

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 05:13 (three years ago) link

Democrats fancy themselves civil rights pioneers but it was REPUBLICANS who freed the slaves we are just like that 19th century party

waht, I am true black metal worrior (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 05:18 (three years ago) link

as Martin Luther King famously said, people should be judged not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character

example (crüt), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 05:19 (three years ago) link

and MLK was a Republican after all!

waht, I am true black metal worrior (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 05:21 (three years ago) link

My ideas make sense and work, they're just not in vogue right now, because of snot wipes like you who want to sip glasses of wine while people suffer and die.

― larry appleton, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 04:39 (three hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Moonlight swine leap whiff off this one

The Perks of Being a Wall St R (darraghmac), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 08:25 (three years ago) link

which ideology is against water fluoridation now?

sarahell, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 08:39 (three years ago) link

fluoridation is how the govmint gives you gay mind control cancer, keep up

Sacked Italian Greyhound (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 08:53 (three years ago) link

My ideas make sense and work, they're just not in vogue right now, because of snot wipes like you who want to sip glasses of wine while people suffer and die.

posts that effortlessly etc

Thank you for your service, wasteman (Bananaman Begins), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 09:43 (three years ago) link

maybe start a thread for recommending a good wine to accompany people suffering and dying

barry snappleton (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 09:45 (three years ago) link

Egoism is real, altruism is not. Hence, running a state by egoists’ rules - “like a business,” if you will - is the only sensible option. If the state then falls apart, it’s not because a democracy is inherently altruistic, but because the state is broken and needs to be abolished.

Wes Brodicus, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 10:50 (three years ago) link

Right, the only motivating factor you can count on is that everyone wants to get rich. EVERYONE. We all like money right guys? Also, everyone cheats, come on.

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 10:55 (three years ago) link

who among us would not rather have the opportunity, however small, to live beyond the dreams of Croesus rather than to bumble along with our needs generally satisfied but no prospect of rubbing anybody else's nose in it?

barry snappleton (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 11:20 (three years ago) link

tucking your shirt into your jeans is a timeless look

ogmor, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 11:29 (three years ago) link

brb I'm off to find a conservative board with a thread explaining liberals and the staggering insights therein

The Perks of Being a Wall St R (darraghmac), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 11:46 (three years ago) link

Bow-ties are a legitimate fashion choice

Thank you for your service, wasteman (Bananaman Begins), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 11:47 (three years ago) link

MANY YEARS AGO PRINCE DARKNESS "GANNON" STOLE ONE OF THE TRIFORCE WITH POWER.

increasingly bonkers (rushomancy), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 13:05 (three years ago) link

That does explain a lot. And the triforce of wisdom being in eight pieces is why the left is so hopeless.

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 13:15 (three years ago) link

lol @ larry appleton / Tombot guvmint dill-weed beef

have you guys ever considered that conservatism has ideological appeal to its adherents, rather than something dismissive like "the rationalization and preservation of privilege" (what about the millions of non-privileged people who are conservatives? don't say false consciousness!) or "individual self-interest is all that matters"?

flopson, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 13:38 (three years ago) link

I considered, then dismissed it.

Frederik B, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 13:43 (three years ago) link

Most problems can be pretty easily explained through racism and false consciousness.

Frederik B, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 13:45 (three years ago) link

Pretty sure 'homogeneity' is a dog whistle.

pomenitul, Monday, 20 May 2019 19:15 (one year ago) link

If they're using that argument as a reason to not support those policies then it is definitely cynical and disingenuous but as an explanation for why we're unable to generate the political will to enact these policies it seems like they're probably correct (insofar as it's hard to contest that racism has played a role in undermining support for social liberal policy).

Mordy, Monday, 20 May 2019 19:23 (one year ago) link

we can't do social democratic policies here in the US because of how large and diverse we are

Translation: we can't have nice things in this country because it conflicts with the white racist imperative to never allow brown-skinned people to have nice things.

A is for (Aimless), Monday, 20 May 2019 19:35 (one year ago) link

Is this kinda like the argument that Socialism failed in the USSR because it was too large and diverse? And backward. Like the US.

Ned Caligari (Tom D.), Monday, 20 May 2019 20:47 (one year ago) link

racism is comorbid with greed and selfishness but I don’t think it causes them

L'assie (Euler), Monday, 20 May 2019 21:46 (one year ago) link

it's weird those ppl said the _exact_ same thing in 1790 when usa was getting all melty like:

19.38% Africa
53.76% England
7.68% Ulster Scot-Irish
6.91% Germany
3.84% Scotland
2.56% Netherlands
0.26% Wales
0.38% France
0.05% Jews -4
0.05% Sweden
5.12% Other -5

e pluribus douchebags

Hunt3r, Tuesday, 21 May 2019 01:57 (one year ago) link

(those numbers were scammed from wiki crap that addressed immigration, sorry to native populations excluded from my shitpost)

Hunt3r, Tuesday, 21 May 2019 01:58 (one year ago) link

I always found this to be a bizarre sort of rhetorical move since I doubt the people who make this argument would favor social democratic policies even if the US was homogenous.

There is nothing bizarre about this move at all, its a completely logical move. Disingenuous of course, but logical. If there is a danger of a goal going in, then simply move the goalposts and reframe the argument. "You are wrong, and in the event that you may be proven right, you are now wrong for this other reason". What would be the non-bizarre rhetorical move?

anvil, Tuesday, 21 May 2019 04:05 (one year ago) link

Good thread, including comments. The short take: Kavanaugh sure has triggered conservatives!

recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 30 May 2019 21:20 (eleven months ago) link

Good read.

recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 10 June 2019 19:54 (eleven months ago) link

I feel like Tom Cotton and Nikki Hayley are more the future face of the GOP than Hawley but I'm sure I'll be proven wrong.

officer sonny bonds, lytton pd (mayor jingleberries), Monday, 10 June 2019 20:23 (eleven months ago) link

i don't think the american right has ever been very interested in democracy

mookieproof, Monday, 10 June 2019 20:33 (eleven months ago) link

I was gonna say conservatism in general and especially in the US pretty much boils down to "I want an aristocracy"

Arugula Raccoon (DJP), Monday, 10 June 2019 20:38 (eleven months ago) link

these people marshall is talking about are something called "catholic integralists" though. they are extreme social conservatives not koch brother robber barons.

Trϵϵship, Monday, 10 June 2019 20:39 (eleven months ago) link

not that these things are unrelated. but the emphasis of these people is wanting a theocracy.

Trϵϵship, Monday, 10 June 2019 20:40 (eleven months ago) link

It's not like they want a poor theocracy

Arugula Raccoon (DJP), Monday, 10 June 2019 20:42 (eleven months ago) link

boils down to "I want an aristocracy"

Dunno. It depends on the flavor of conservatism. The oligarchs want to maintain the current oligarchy. The evangelicals and conservative Catholics want to establish a theocracy. The racists just want the full restoration of white supremacy. Then there are the uneasy masses who just want everything 'put back the way it was', except the past they yearn for is a fantasy that never existed.

A is for (Aimless), Monday, 10 June 2019 20:54 (eleven months ago) link

"Hierarchy" is the better word. Some people are born to rule, others to follow. Corey Robin's book is pretty good on the subject.

recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 10 June 2019 20:58 (eleven months ago) link

With a proper hierarchy, you always know who you must grovel to and who must grovel to you.

A is for (Aimless), Monday, 10 June 2019 21:03 (eleven months ago) link

(those numbers were scammed from wiki crap that addressed immigration, sorry to native populations excluded from my shitpost)

― Hunt3r, Monday, May 20, 2019 6:58 PM (three weeks ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

quick note that indigenous populations weren't considered humans by colonialists at that time if they were considered at all. much of the continent was considered "terra nullius." so you can't be blamed for the wiki's bullshit— plenty of reasonable population estimates for the time period exist, but i'm sure that because they can't be *proven* some racist nerds at wikipedia edit them out all the time.

blue light or electric light (the table is the table), Monday, 10 June 2019 21:15 (eleven months ago) link

I’m at the Hotel Imperial in Vienna, Austria. Almost 200 rooms… But the elevator has been broken for 3 days.

Please don’t bring European-style socialism to America. 🚯 pic.twitter.com/axeygJSoBi

— Frank Luntz (@FrankLuntz) June 18, 2019

mookieproof, Tuesday, 18 June 2019 14:01 (eleven months ago) link

must...resist...urge...to yell at frank luntz....on twitter...

i will never make a typo ever again (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 18 June 2019 14:32 (eleven months ago) link

No elevator in America has ever been or will ever be broken.

Una Palooka Dronka (hardcore dilettante), Wednesday, 19 June 2019 04:32 (eleven months ago) link

Current Austrian government a coalition between well-known socialists, the People's Party and the Freedom Party.

Orpheus Knutt (Tom D.), Wednesday, 19 June 2019 07:13 (eleven months ago) link

four months pass...

life on earth is bribery

reggie (qualmsley), Saturday, 16 November 2019 14:27 (six months ago) link

is that why you want the tax returns?

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 16 November 2019 14:38 (six months ago) link

liberals are fundamentally perfidious and want to destroy us and our way of life. it is actively dangerous to trust anything they say. in order to protect ourselves from this existential threat, we have to be willing to do to them all of the things we know in our heart they want to do to us, and we have to do it first, before it's too late. self-defense is never wrong, so while some of the things we have to do would be wrong under other circumstances, we are just Standing Our Ground, which is not only blameless but morally necessary.

tantric societal collapse (rushomancy), Saturday, 16 November 2019 15:41 (six months ago) link

two weeks pass...

"Imagine killing an unarmed child and then suing his parents." https://t.co/fwWXwNOMZf

— 🎄⛄️ Eoin Jinglins ⛄️🎄 (@EoinHiggins_) December 4, 2019

A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Thursday, 5 December 2019 20:48 (five months ago) link

not so much an explanation as a distillation

A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Thursday, 5 December 2019 20:56 (five months ago) link

three months pass...

https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2020/03/its-the-spirit-of-the-age-jared-kushner-edition

Conservatives in general, and in particular the white evangelicals who make up Trump’s base, hate expertise because their world view is a farrago of magical thinking that wouldn’t stand up to ten seconds of actual critical scrutiny, which is why they take great care to avoid that experience at all costs.

El Tomboto, Friday, 13 March 2020 22:52 (two months ago) link

three weeks pass...

The modern conservative movement holds these truths to be self-evident

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/04/coronavirus-trump-dhs-undocumented-workers-essential.html

reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 7 April 2020 15:31 (one month ago) link

good article, too bad i agree with the hopeless conclusion

Nhex, Tuesday, 7 April 2020 17:32 (one month ago) link

more of the same being available is not quite hopeless. but to get change we do have to demand it be changed, and must be able to elect persons to do that. otherwise it will actually get much worse. we won't shrug and settle will we?

i ask cthulu to save me. but i just get dennis perrin tweets. (Hunt3r), Tuesday, 7 April 2020 18:14 (one month ago) link

two weeks pass...

Read this in the Amazon reviews of Amanda Marcotte's book "Troll Nation," and I think it is a great summary of the current "conservative" mindset:

1. Trolling is destructive to discourse (agree)
2. Trolling does not provide a coherent political vision for reform (agree)
3. But you ignored the main issue: why (really) do Trump and his followers troll? And the answer is not hatred.
It's a tactic to destabilize the tenuous parasitic leftist coalitions that are built on a dizzying array of incompatible grievances against imagined enemy institutions. These enemies of leftists include most of the most stable, successful institutions that make civilization possible: religion, capitalism, meritocratic education and commerce, strong national defense, controlled borders, and solvent government spending. The incessant attacks on these institutions by the left are largely encouraged by the DC establishment and most state and local governments, and the result has been failure of safety, solvency, competence, and sanity. Leftism causes parasitic failure across the board. To defend leftist policies on merit is impossible, so the left decided the primary tactic for persuasion should be defamation, intimidation, and even criminal extortion, persecution, and assault. So the right has had enough, and has decided, symbolized by and led by Trump, to assail the leftist establishment with criticism, skepticism, insults, and challenges to their authority and power at all levels. Like in any street fight, you can't win if you aren't willing to use the tactics your enemy is willing to use. So the right trolls, because the left smears. As long as the left smears and commits crimes to further their agenda, the right will troll and be willing to stop those crimes with equal or greater force. That is why the right trolls. Not because of your imagined telepathic detection of deep seated Nazi hatred, but because your leadership are a bunch of parasitic communist thugs who aspire to totalitarian tyrannical rule, and deserve trolling.

DJI, Wednesday, 22 April 2020 17:22 (one month ago) link

Third part just seems lifted straight out of Trump Jr's book.

nashwan, Wednesday, 22 April 2020 17:45 (one month ago) link

built on a dizzying array of incompatible grievances against imagined enemy institutions

more goddamned projection

A is for (Aimless), Wednesday, 22 April 2020 18:58 (one month ago) link

I can't read that shit

conservativism basically just means being a dick and enjoying it, or pretending to enjoy it idk

fuck it (Left), Wednesday, 22 April 2020 19:11 (one month ago) link

HENLEY: Well, yeah.

stone cold jane austen (Ye Mad Puffin), Wednesday, 22 April 2020 19:13 (one month ago) link

Typical response from the Left

xp

Evan, Wednesday, 22 April 2020 19:28 (one month ago) link

i wish i hadn't chosen that fucking name

fuck it (Left), Wednesday, 22 April 2020 19:32 (one month ago) link

On my Facebook today: You hate the truth. Very few still telling it, Hannity is one of them.

As succinct as it gets. To believe it is to be conservative.

Album Moods: Rambunctious; Snide (Dan Peterson), Wednesday, 22 April 2020 20:00 (one month ago) link

Why do they troll? “The answer is not hatred.”

The subsequent paragraph describes in depth a hatred and contempt for left ideology, and the use of trolling as a tactic to sink it?

unashamed and trash (Unctious), Wednesday, 22 April 2020 20:07 (one month ago) link

To clarify, I’m not saying that the paragraph identifies leftist ideology with any clarity or rigor—just that it details hatred pretty specifically.

unashamed and trash (Unctious), Wednesday, 22 April 2020 20:12 (one month ago) link

Yeah, I see hella hatred in that last paragraph. But it's "the truth" and I hate the truth.

Album Moods: Rambunctious; Snide (Dan Peterson), Wednesday, 22 April 2020 20:15 (one month ago) link

otm

"Leftism causes parasitic failure across the board," but it's not like I hate it.

dip to dup (rob), Wednesday, 22 April 2020 20:16 (one month ago) link

Lotta handwaving about the ills of leftism.

DJI, Wednesday, 22 April 2020 20:22 (one month ago) link

it definitely explains why people who cannot stand the mildest of criticisms flock to Trump

frogbs, Wednesday, 22 April 2020 20:28 (one month ago) link

"But that doesn’t matter to his supporters, because consequences don’t matter, and consequences don’t matter, because there’s always a way of escaping accountability when intellectual dishonesty is the lens through which one engages the world. What matters is impulse, urge, appetite, an itch, and other neurological bliss points."

https://stoehr.substack.com/p/trumps-ersatz-phallic-exercise

reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 28 April 2020 22:52 (three weeks ago) link

Ersatz Phallic Exercise is, coincidentally, the name of my Zappa tribute band.

stone cold jane austen (Ye Mad Puffin), Wednesday, 29 April 2020 01:25 (three weeks ago) link

Heard this Frank Wilhoit quote via the “Know Your Enemy” pod and it’s pretty perfect:

“There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.”

A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Wednesday, 29 April 2020 13:01 (three weeks ago) link


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