Monkey - as an insult

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I've got to say I've always been wary of using monkey as an insult. I'm well aware of its racist connotations, especially within football (cf the Blak Twang skit about Martin Keown). Therefore I must admit to being rather surprised to the number of time Vin Diesel uses it as such in the film xXx - especially in relation to Samuel L.Jackson (who - to add injury to possible insult - or alternatively justification - is called Gibbon). So your thoughts please...

― Pete (Pete), Monday, 28 October 2002 11:55 (twenty-three years ago)

I have not seen this film. Does Samuel L. Jackson actually play a monkey in it?

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 28 October 2002 11:57 (twenty-three years ago)

No Nick, he plays a NSA agent with a half scarred face - presumably in a similar incident to Mel Gibson in "The Man With Point Five Fizgog".

― Pete (Pete), Monday, 28 October 2002 11:59 (twenty-three years ago)

Is monkey still used as a racist insult? I haven't heard that for years. It's used a lot in offices (in my office?) like "gopher" once was I think. We have "helpdesk monkeys" and i think that's quite widespread in the IT industry -- it might even be a Dilbert thing (I don't read Dilbert, so don't know for sure). It's from "you pay peanuts, you get monkeys", hence someone doing a rubbish job you could do without thought.

― Alan (Alan), Monday, 28 October 2002 12:07 (twenty-three years ago)

You pay monkeys, you get cooties.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 28 October 2002 12:09 (twenty-three years ago)

you live in malmo you wear a hat

― gareth (gareth), Monday, 28 October 2002 12:16 (twenty-three years ago)

that, or "chimp work" (i.e., the most tedious and mindless tasks one could do, especially when one has an advanced degree -- usually given to the poor schmucks whose aforementioned advanced degrees are still wet).

― Tad (llamasfur), Monday, 28 October 2002 12:18 (twenty-three years ago)

Ptee: There's an entire racial undercurrent going on between Vin Diesel and Samuel L. Jackson throughout that movie; VD thinks SLJ is playing Step N. Fetchit for The Man for most of the beginning of the movie doesn't respect him at all (hence the "monkey" comments).

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 28 October 2002 12:54 (twenty-three years ago)

hm the only time i wd ever call anyone a monkey is if i prefix it with something else, usually "cheeky" (cheeky monkey being cockernee expression for someone who is well, cheeky INNIT). i had not thort that this might possibly offend anyone!

― katie (katie), Monday, 28 October 2002 13:04 (twenty-three years ago)

Monkey is still used in football as an insult - general monkey noises are much what "lets stamp out racism in football" is trying to stamp out. But this ambiguity with regards to web monkey etc etc interested me because I've seen it done as well.

There is also the ambiguity of Vin Diesel himself. Nevertheless monkeys - no matter how funny they are - are still seen to be in some sense a less evolved step of the ladder to humangs and hence it can be read as an insult, no matter how cutely its being applied.

Dan the thing that seems odd in the movie is that Diesel uses Monkey for loads of people as an insult - as an insult in itself it is quite weak unless it is combined with the racial slur in Jackson's case (when suddenly it seems wholly inappropriate).

― Pete (Pete), Monday, 28 October 2002 13:06 (twenty-three years ago)

Well, not really. Xander has an amazingly high self-image and has built up this ultra-snide personality that thrives on putting people down like that. Alan and Tad may have some of it when he's talking to other people, but even if the people he's talking to aren't black, he can definitely have the same type of thoughts in his mind as when he's talking to Sammy's character. It's been a while since I saw the movie, so I don't remember the full context of when he called people "monkey", but I know his usage didn't seem odd to me at all.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 28 October 2002 13:12 (twenty-three years ago)

I am unsurprised that the Barnet Ape is keen to stamp out monkey insults.

― Tom (Groke), Monday, 28 October 2002 13:30 (twenty-three years ago)

i've been told now by helpdesk people here that they consider the appelation to come from the "infinite number of monkeys... etc", hence they are just bashing randomly on keyboards to get the right answer... given an infinite amount of time.

so maybe it's less widely used than i imagined.

― Alan (Alan), Monday, 28 October 2002 13:35 (twenty-three years ago)

I am amazed that people can talk about XXX at all seriously. I saw that movie this weekend, based on ILX recommendations. Never again. Dan Perry, you are a very bad man and owe me €17 and 90 minutes of my life.

― Colin Meeder (Mert), Monday, 28 October 2002 13:47 (twenty-three years ago)

Hey, my review of that movie said, "Woo, it's brainless stunts! COOL!" Where was the false advertizing?

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 28 October 2002 13:49 (twenty-three years ago)

Brainless != Brain-sucking
Snowboarding w/ computer effects != amazing stunts

― Colin Meeder (Mert), Monday, 28 October 2002 14:12 (twenty-three years ago)

Butbutbut the scene where he jumps the arch on the motorcycle and shoots the big stupid guy! Really, all the best stunts were the motorcycle ones.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 28 October 2002 14:18 (twenty-three years ago)

xXx is just a Bond pastiche which adds very very little to the mix. It was possibly most enjoyable for yet another ridiculous view of what a dance music club looks and act like (arcing electricity) and a somewhat bemused looking Orbital sitting behind ten minutes worth of action. Builds up its big stunts so much that when they actually happen they look a bit shit. And the snowboarding vs the avalanche - doesn't seem to understand any laws of acceleration known to man.

I think you are right Dan about the Xander Cage character, its just that monkey as a generalised term is so unusual and does still have conotations that his use of it (both in the possibly charged situation with Jackson and the oddly week versions with the Senator at the beginning) seemed anachronistic.

Colin - these are the films that need to be discussed.

― Pete (Pete), Monday, 28 October 2002 14:55 (twenty-three years ago)

It is an anachronistic term, but I think it was often being used for comedic effect. The impression I got was that Xander liked to ridicule people a LOT, and using an outdated term like that is good for pulling chuckles from people watching the exchange (other characters in the scene, moviegoers, etc). I have several friends who are not above throwing the term "monkey-ass" around ("Get your monkey-ass over here!") and it's always because they're playing up to a crowd.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 28 October 2002 15:03 (twenty-three years ago)

Lackey or Monkey are interchangeable to reffer to grunt work such as helpdesk or dataentry.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Monday, 28 October 2002 15:10 (twenty-three years ago)

Katie, your joke output has been a godsend to our otherwise unemployed primate chums, so I'm sure they wouldn't begrudge you using the occasional popular phrase or saying against them in jest.

― Graham (graham), Monday, 28 October 2002 15:16 (twenty-three years ago)

(Thanks to Mike Myers, there are absolutely no racial connotations to the phrase "cheeky monkey".)

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 28 October 2002 15:22 (twenty-three years ago)

Rrright. I knew nuthin of the use of 'monkey' as a racial slur i.e. haven't heard anyone using it as such. Maybe I (don't) need to hang around more football hooligan twatXors.

I call myself an office monkey all the time. Mainly because it sounds funny, innit. But probably also because of the infinity =Shakespeare/pointless zoo tea party things. In general (& slightly different) use in my house as mildly censorious epithet for person undertaking foolishness.

Very glad I didn't go to see xXx now. Gah.

― Liz :x (Liz :x), Monday, 28 October 2002 15:27 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't think there are any racial connotations to most uses of the word monkey in conjuction with something else (hence data-monkey, web-monkey, monkey-ass and of course our own dear arsemonkey). It just struck me initially as rather weak writing and later as odd in itself - and as I said before its not something that has been completely removed from our football terraces so perhaps I was more sensitive.

Mind you we also have monkeys as mayors over here so...

― Pete (Pete), Monday, 28 October 2002 15:28 (twenty-three years ago)

My wife's family uses "monkey" as an affectionate insult for anyone acting stupid in an endearing way. Not a racial insult (and some of these folks are not above making racial insults).

For example, when our cat is bad, we threaten to take him to the zoo and leave him in the monkey cage with the rest of the monkeys. He rarely appears chastened by this.

― Colin Meeder (Mert), Monday, 28 October 2002 15:30 (twenty-three years ago)

one year passes...

so monkey is possibly a racist insult? I have been having a weird month of recurring monkey phrases, for instance at the pub this evening someone said "you pay peanuts you get monkeys" does anyone know the etymolgy. Also has anyone else had any weird recurring phrases lately? My favourite one would have to be "like a rat up a drainpipe" but thats another story...

― Menelaus Darcy (Menelaus Darcy), Friday, 3 September 2004 16:36 (twenty-one years ago)

I use it all the time, but usually with a qualifier before it. Calling someone a monkey is, apparently, the worst insult you can use in Indonesian.

― edward o (edwardo), Saturday, 4 September 2004 00:34 (twenty-one years ago)

When I was in middle school, one of my classmates, D4ck Patr14rca, of the mob family, told me that (as a Colombian) I'd been shipped to the US in a monkey crate. I called him an asshole, and my teacher told me that I was overreacting and needed to go in the hall to 'cool down.'

― x j e r e m y (x Jeremy), Saturday, 4 September 2004 00:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Nevertheless monkeys - no matter how funny they are - are still seen to be in some sense a less evolved step of the ladder to humangs...

Some day we will eliminate this erroneus and speciescentric belief, then the humangs will see!

― Frondi, Saturday, 4 September 2004 03:11 (twenty-one years ago)

My husband and I call each other "monkey" as an endearment!

― Layna Andersen (Layna Andersen), Saturday, 4 September 2004 05:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Aaron you sick little monkey ;P

-- Trayce (spamspanke...), September 3rd, 2004 9:36 PM. (trayce) (later)

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Saturday, 4 September 2004 06:17 (twenty-one years ago)

My friends and I have always used "monkey" to describe someone who is in a drone-type job. I've also described myself as an "audio monkey" or alternately a "tech monkey" - i.e., a drone with special skills.

― Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Saturday, 4 September 2004 16:03 (twenty-one years ago)

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