the day after the deadline: can the union survive brexit and other deep questions

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electoral reform is even more of a "surely the grown-ups will now come and save us!!" move than "second referendum now": discuss

mark s, Tuesday, 5 December 2017 12:32 (four months ago) Permalink

Yes it will survive and Ruth Davidson will save it

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 5 December 2017 12:35 (four months ago) Permalink

lock thread

mark s, Tuesday, 5 December 2017 12:36 (four months ago) Permalink

Do you mean the idea that whoever is in power* will be grown-up enough to say "Yes this system that got us here must go for the good of everyone - but probably not of us"? Or just that it will unleash further waves of swivel-eyed loons from every side.

* there is arguably no-one in power right now..

Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 5 December 2017 12:37 (four months ago) Permalink

it does seem like electoral reform could go a long way to provoking some meaningful change - the two parties contain multitudes of views that go too far along the political spectrum - a system which reduced their power and increased the chances of coalition, and led to more parties cropping up, would probably be good. but we've prob seen in recent years the strange suspicion of coalitions that exists in the uk and the perception that they are weak or a sign of a decadent state or whatever.

― Bein' Sean Bean (LocalGarda), Tuesday, 5 December 2017 12:21 (twelve minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Going to quote LocalGarda here because I feel what he's saying - but with the obvious caveat that we're both from a country that used an electoral system of beauty, nuance and power to elect the same shower of corrupt bastards in over and over for ever.

Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 5 December 2017 12:40 (four months ago) Permalink

no i mean the tendency -- which LG's post and yr affirmation of same dpn't really sidestep -- to pass the responsibility for significant change for the good onto a process that doesn't appear to have an agent (the "grown-ups" being the right-thinking people who will somehow to cause this to come about without it having to pass upwards through the extant political thingumajic you want to transform)

il a le pas de hors texte, as someone liked to say

mark s, Tuesday, 5 December 2017 12:45 (four months ago) Permalink

thingumajic is the slovenian for what the old norse used to call the þing

mark s, Tuesday, 5 December 2017 12:46 (four months ago) Permalink

No electoral reform when there won't be a country left to save.

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 5 December 2017 12:49 (four months ago) Permalink

xp surely both these things are inevitable given how dysfunctional a shitheap british politics has become. it's not representative enough to have actually good agents

ogmor, Tuesday, 5 December 2017 12:50 (four months ago) Permalink

By far the most politically significant thing in that Waterson tweet is the bit about Facebook. Things will profoundly change again when we really hit the social media backlash - not because of fake news or Trump or Russia or whatever, but just because the next generation think it's lame.

Matt DC, Tuesday, 5 December 2017 12:53 (four months ago) Permalink

yes that's what i thought: that facebook and twitter are both OLD news (i mean, i'm on snapchat and friends with ppl who use it a LOT but it's more or less a closed book to me, and there's a micropolitics right there)

mark s, Tuesday, 5 December 2017 12:55 (four months ago) Permalink

Actually curious as to why Twitter is perceived as 'boring' in presumably a different way to 'ruined by our parents and big business' re Facebook. If there is a distinction.

If you're 17 you probably don't/shouldn't think of (your) media as not social by default so that term itself is dating speedily.

nashwan, Tuesday, 5 December 2017 13:09 (four months ago) Permalink

People spending a lot of time on Instagram were the first non-political people (in the sense that they’re not nerding on threads like us) I heard talking about the Labour surge (am not on Insta FWIW).

kim jong deal (suzy), Tuesday, 5 December 2017 13:13 (four months ago) Permalink

That sounds like my first option there, mark - there can be no saving grownups in this scenario except the MPs, who aren't well suited for the job - no-one is going to march for AV.

Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 5 December 2017 13:17 (four months ago) Permalink

interesting analysis (again irish academic) of what we can learn outcomes underlying tactics and strategy on all sides -- undermined a bit by annoying and smug rhetoric ("it is essential to analyse the motivations – more academically and more objectively", and also by bad style decision re the formating of dates (superscript -sts, -nds, -rds and -ths are the devil)

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2017/12/05/a-high-risk-game-of-chicken-is-being-played-over-the-irish-border/

mark s, Tuesday, 5 December 2017 13:59 (four months ago) Permalink

lol s/b "what we can learn ABOUT outcomes VIA underlying tactics and strategy on all sides"

mark s, Tuesday, 5 December 2017 14:02 (four months ago) Permalink

"They care about animals, it's disabled people they hate."

Or in Blairite Labour's case it was: "They care about foxes, it's The Iraqi people they hate."

it seems most of the UK are far more likely to get upset about animal welfare issues than atrocities committed against fellow humans, especially disabled or foreign peoples.

calzino, Tuesday, 5 December 2017 14:14 (four months ago) Permalink

Why do you think this is, Calzino? And is it a particularly British thing or common to all countries? (never lived anywhere else so genuinely don't know).

Grandpont Genie, Tuesday, 5 December 2017 14:25 (four months ago) Permalink

Don't think that's particularly different in any Western European country tbf. (with the exception of foxes, that is really your thing)

Le Bateau Ivre, Tuesday, 5 December 2017 14:40 (four months ago) Permalink

I don't think the UK population are particularly more susceptible to hate propaganda than other nations. But in recent times Blair kept the benefits scrounger rhetoric going for a high viz wearing Gideon to continue with. And in recent times it would easy to believe that much of the UK electorate are callous, hateful, xenophobic, racist etc. But I think that might be an exaggeration encouraged by far too many callous, hateful, xenophobic, racist politicians.

calzino, Tuesday, 5 December 2017 14:44 (four months ago) Permalink

i remember in the 80s having quite an unsettling conversation on the phone -- for a piece I was researching for Dylan Jones lol -- with a young woman from PETA in America, quizzing her about the argument that animals should of course be sacred but that people e.g. with spectacles, bcz unfit, should be herded to the Darwinian die-off, .

I said "but that includes me" and she said "so be it" (to be fair this was the correct response rhetorically to my manipulative gambit). Unsure if this was actual PETA doctrine at the time or since but the distinction being made was p stark. And is in some sense or other quite widespread.

mark s, Tuesday, 5 December 2017 14:45 (four months ago) Permalink

peta are equal parts stupid and stupid, there are a lot of far better animal advocate groups out there that don't just do hateful shit for stunts

faust apes (NickB), Tuesday, 5 December 2017 14:50 (four months ago) Permalink

EU official on DD's suggestion that whole of UK will align with EU regs. "The UK will not have any say on the decisions taken in Brussels and will basically implement them without having any influence over them... it makes the UK kind of a regulatory 'protectorate" of Brussels'".

— Daniel Boffey (@DanielBoffey) December 5, 2017

faust apes (NickB), Tuesday, 5 December 2017 14:56 (four months ago) Permalink

DD taking back contrololol

faust apes (NickB), Tuesday, 5 December 2017 14:57 (four months ago) Permalink

BANTZustan

mark s, Tuesday, 5 December 2017 14:58 (four months ago) Permalink

no i mean the tendency -- which LG's post and yr affirmation of same dpn't really sidestep -- to pass the responsibility for significant change for the good onto a process that doesn't appear to have an agent (the "grown-ups" being the right-thinking people who will somehow to cause this to come about without it having to pass upwards through the extant political thingumajic you want to transform)

i don't have to be able to implement the solution to suggest it, or to have an idea how it could come about. i'm just posting about the situation, i'm not putting myself in a position where i am the one to set the wheels in motion to solve it.

if we discounted all political views that pass responsibility for change onto a process that doesn't appear to have an agent we wouldn't be left with very many views imo.

we're both from a country that used an electoral system of beauty, nuance and power to elect the same shower of corrupt bastards in over and over for ever.

sort of true but every party bar sinn fein has been in power in my lifetime, and several independents have had sway as well for better or worse.

you could argue that "stops things getting done" or you could say it tempers the worst excesses of the bastards.

Bein' Sean Bean (LocalGarda), Tuesday, 5 December 2017 15:08 (four months ago) Permalink

not sure there's an argument against brexit that doesn't involve some level of condescension towards vast swathes of the electorate. what can you do when people vote for something which will fuck them over?

it's certainly not an endorsement of the current democratic system and it's arguably less patronising to suggest a new system of democracy than it is to suggest going out to people and teaching them why they should value the lives of people whose skin colour is different or whatever.

Bein' Sean Bean (LocalGarda), Tuesday, 5 December 2017 15:11 (four months ago) Permalink

tbf i wasn't saying that, i was saying that Remain needs to make more of a case for the awesomeness of the EU than they bothered doing during the referendum campaign

after "after cease to exist" (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 5 December 2017 15:12 (four months ago) Permalink

cos "hey guys, everything's great, you want this to carry on forever, right?" didn't really cut it

after "after cease to exist" (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 5 December 2017 15:13 (four months ago) Permalink

“what can you do when people vote for something which will fuck them over?”

Don’t put forth policy proposals that will fuck people over?

YouTube_-_funy_cats.flv (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Tuesday, 5 December 2017 15:14 (four months ago) Permalink

right, but we're past that point.

Bein' Sean Bean (LocalGarda), Tuesday, 5 December 2017 15:14 (four months ago) Permalink

fair enough LG -- i'm not exactly out manning picket lines myself here -- but i think it's a baked-in weakness of arguments for (and via) electoral reform, that they always seems to elide agency or (which is the same thing) trust in some slightly magical top-down institution to take charge of the process, which (to me)* makes ER quite a bad element to focus on or to foreground

*confessing: it's a bugbear, not least bcz step two is always a unresolvable stand-up drag-out fight between minutely distinct kinds of AV or STV or whatever, that causes the rest of the world's eyes to roll as they glaze over

mark s, Tuesday, 5 December 2017 15:15 (four months ago) Permalink

i'd guess most brexiteers don't believe they will be fucked over, especially the people who are already fucked over. scratch that, those peeps don't really vote. it's the tier above them that are kinda paranoid about going back to being fucked over or have learned to believe that the only reason they're not fucked over is because of their own rugged individualism.

after "after cease to exist" (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 5 December 2017 15:16 (four months ago) Permalink

yeah i mean it is essentially saying "some powerful people" need to reshape democracy. but a lot of discussions in recent months have had this element to them - eg the idea that brexit should never have gone to a public vote.

we sort of rely on a fair democratic system to shape its own rules or reform them, maybe that doesn't work or ever happen. maybe that's what we're seeing in america, uk etc, the idea that only a few people actually know the inner workings of these systems and they are all establishment politicians or academics - the rest might want to change the system but have no idea what that means, and are never offered the chance to do so apart from these roundabout tassels that bob above their head every now and again, not intended for that purpose but ripped down as a way of changing something.

xpost

Bein' Sean Bean (LocalGarda), Tuesday, 5 December 2017 15:19 (four months ago) Permalink

i mean fundamentally -- and this is the root of my politics i suppose -- i think meaningful transformation of the "system" for the better is just no longer going to be top-down tinkering with the machinery: for a variety of reasons, we've moved out beyond the end of the technocratic era (which began with bismarck-gladstone and ended maybe with blair-obama) -- which is also why the "mass education project" is a non-starter, yes, practically or politically

(something like this *did* exist back in the age of empire, bcz it was consonant with the structures and flows of empire -- but the structures and flows are really really different now, in whatever the current era is)

anyway, beyond saying "it must come from below to be meaningful" and "and actually it WILL come from below whether we accept it or not" and then flourishing my red flag dramatically, i don't really have much idea what "it" is actually going to be (except that it could be quite a bad "it" if nice ppl don't involve themselves)

mark s, Tuesday, 5 December 2017 15:28 (four months ago) Permalink

have learned to believe that the only reason they're not fucked over is because of their own rugged individualism

see i think this is a commonly stated belief, that is deep down not believed at all: its most aggressive defenders have often simultaneously internalised serious but unspeakable self-blaming assumptions about their own uselessness

i derive this insight from watching the apprentice feat.sir a.sugar obv

mark s, Tuesday, 5 December 2017 15:34 (four months ago) Permalink

baron sugar i mean

mark s, Tuesday, 5 December 2017 15:34 (four months ago) Permalink

well you know i don't really count those dorks as fully human

after "after cease to exist" (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 5 December 2017 15:36 (four months ago) Permalink

"i got where i am today thru the sweat of my own brow" is a pretty common working class trope as well as lol entrepreneurs

after "after cease to exist" (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 5 December 2017 15:37 (four months ago) Permalink

which brings us back to Baron Harkonnen i guess

after "after cease to exist" (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 5 December 2017 15:37 (four months ago) Permalink

Remain needs to make more of a case for the awesomeness of the EU than they bothered doing during the referendum campaign

I don't buy this really. It suggests there actually WAS a better way for the status quo to have been sold (or resold) to various sceptics and, pessimistically or cynically, I don't think in practice that was feasible (without getting into more general issues like how the Tories like to govern).

nashwan, Tuesday, 5 December 2017 15:38 (four months ago) Permalink

prob like 9 out of 10 people think this way, either fully or to an extent.

xpost to nv

Bein' Sean Bean (LocalGarda), Tuesday, 5 December 2017 15:38 (four months ago) Permalink

yeah that doesn't feel like an overestimate, even if you're trust fund scum you probly like to kid yourself that you're worth it

after "after cease to exist" (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 5 December 2017 15:40 (four months ago) Permalink

as a trope, i think it's very often a psychic defence against deep unstated belief in one's own weakness and (same thing ) unworthiness -- hence the outfacing rage that cocoons it

no one is fully human: those dorks are collective manifestations of the most problematic of all the symptoms we share

mark s, Tuesday, 5 December 2017 15:41 (four months ago) Permalink

👉🏽 i'm fired

mark s, Tuesday, 5 December 2017 15:41 (four months ago) Permalink

i dunno if people can function without some sense of "i am who i am because of choices i make"

and to some extent it must be true for everyone, tho not maybe in the ways they think.

Bein' Sean Bean (LocalGarda), Tuesday, 5 December 2017 15:42 (four months ago) Permalink

"i could be who i could be because of choices i must now make" is the lifeline

mark s, Tuesday, 5 December 2017 15:48 (four months ago) Permalink

what are examples of bottom up change in british political history and why couldn't it happen wrt electoral reform?

ogmor, Tuesday, 5 December 2017 15:55 (four months ago) Permalink

Civil war; repeal of the corn laws; agitation in the colonies against being colonies. Electoral reform followed from all of them, but the form it took was not predetermined or even the primary motor of the change.

I mean. maybe a mass movement could be formulated round electoral reform (like the suffragettes): but you'd need a structural change first, for it to be meaningful; for it to "take" (suffragettes achieved their goals as a consequence of the social changes wrought by WW1).

mark s, Tuesday, 5 December 2017 16:03 (four months ago) Permalink

It's very possible that Brexit brings just that major upheaval (so far ofc it hasn't actually happened) that could mean the occurrence of structural changes.

Can't see anything like 2nd ref, not least bcz Europe has huge problems the likes of Juncker don't care and are perhaps unable to solve.

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 5 December 2017 16:12 (four months ago) Permalink

Fair enough but that's a really low bar xp

you're my luger not my rifle (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 19 April 2018 21:34 (two days ago) Permalink

well yeah, yet to meet all the thousands who have been helped by amazing scheme!

calzino, Thursday, 19 April 2018 21:37 (two days ago) Permalink

It’s not been a great day for them. Nick Timothy deleted his account, and this story came out: https://www.vice.com/amp/en_uk/article/ne9m9d/vice-exclusive-the-tory-council-candidate-who-supports-far-right-extremists

gyac, Friday, 20 April 2018 14:36 (yesterday) Permalink

Nick Timothy deleted his account

FUCK I'M ON CHAMPAGNE TONIGHT

Cortez the Self-Harmer (Noodle Vague), Friday, 20 April 2018 14:37 (yesterday) Permalink

When he’s not knocking on doors for the local election with high profile Conservatives, Darren is attending events organised by Generation Identity, a racist group that wants to repatriate migrants. Our investigation shows that Harrison attended numerous events by the ethno-nationalist group.

^ this is perfectly confluent with the amber rudd approach tbh

i'm surprised to see your screwface at the door (NickB), Friday, 20 April 2018 14:40 (yesterday) Permalink

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DbOWSRKWkAAnN6M.jpg

calzino, Friday, 20 April 2018 14:42 (yesterday) Permalink

casually wafting away a fart

Cortez the Self-Harmer (Noodle Vague), Friday, 20 April 2018 14:43 (yesterday) Permalink

ooh i just had a safeguarding warning this week about Generation Identity

Generation Cunts amirite?

Cortez the Self-Harmer (Noodle Vague), Friday, 20 April 2018 14:44 (yesterday) Permalink

it's the undone zipper that's more worrying tbh xp

i'm surprised to see your screwface at the door (NickB), Friday, 20 April 2018 14:45 (yesterday) Permalink

Dan Hodges is defending Nick Timothy(!), who he says has been “hounded off Twitter” by the hard left (rather than his own incompetence).

gyac, Friday, 20 April 2018 14:53 (yesterday) Permalink

I know we're saying "peak lib dem" a lot these days but peak lib dem pic.twitter.com/axFWQLN38U

— Crowsa Luxemburg (@quendergeer) April 20, 2018

calzino, Friday, 20 April 2018 14:53 (yesterday) Permalink

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DbNZ7XJWAAETgNe.jpg

calzino, Friday, 20 April 2018 14:54 (yesterday) Permalink

wait did he not run away because somebody amply demonstrated he's a fucking liar?

Cortez the Self-Harmer (Noodle Vague), Friday, 20 April 2018 14:54 (yesterday) Permalink

Yeah he was hounded off by the hard left mainstream media doing their job for once.

gyac, Friday, 20 April 2018 14:58 (yesterday) Permalink

i want to live in a world where i can pelt nick timothy with rotten eggs with no fear of comeback

Lou Grant, the Iranian cinema of late '70s TV (stevie), Friday, 20 April 2018 15:00 (yesterday) Permalink

he can't moan about being no-platformed and become a martyr, if he took the ball home of his own accord! the fucking dickhead!

calzino, Friday, 20 April 2018 15:01 (yesterday) Permalink

He's probably deleted it out of embarrassment and being so uniquely terrible at his chosen career path.

Matt DC, Friday, 20 April 2018 15:04 (yesterday) Permalink

I mean you’d think that but he went from one of the biggest political misjudgements ever to a career as a political commentator within a few weeks, so...

gyac, Friday, 20 April 2018 15:14 (yesterday) Permalink

No no he was HOUNDED OFF TWITTER you monsters have you no SYMPATHY?

Tim, Friday, 20 April 2018 15:19 (yesterday) Permalink

WHAT ABOUT HIS HUMAN RIGHTS?

Tim, Friday, 20 April 2018 15:27 (yesterday) Permalink

Dunno how you can say all journalists are posh when Nick Timothy got comprehensively schooled

— Here's what I reckon: (@angryaboutbikes) April 20, 2018

calzino, Friday, 20 April 2018 15:28 (yesterday) Permalink

I like the elegant simplicity of this one:

Could be worse, could be hounded out of the country you've lived in all your life https://t.co/5C6J8ETJbM

— Dawn Foster (@DawnHFoster) April 20, 2018

Matt DC, Friday, 20 April 2018 15:35 (yesterday) Permalink

I miss the old politics, where you would be civil to the people denying cancer treatment to citizens in order to mollify racists.

Matt DC, Friday, 20 April 2018 15:42 (yesterday) Permalink

fkn fire our journalist class into the sun already.

||||||||, Friday, 20 April 2018 16:39 (yesterday) Permalink

according to the front page of bbc news, none of this is happening.

Heavy Messages (jed_), Friday, 20 April 2018 16:43 (yesterday) Permalink

I know this government latterly has been kind of resilient but it feels like there’s a resignation in the offing soon. when do we think rudd might go? is may at risk even? in a more benign context she would have gone already surely

||||||||, Friday, 20 April 2018 16:43 (yesterday) Permalink

I forgot she stood in for May in the party leader Brexit debates - and then ended up with a majority of two men and a dog in Nick Timothy's General Election.

(Henry) Green container bin with face (Tom D.), Friday, 20 April 2018 16:49 (yesterday) Permalink

probably need to roll with the punches until locals out the way. must be painful at CPHQ rn

||||||||, Friday, 20 April 2018 16:50 (yesterday) Permalink

Matt made me grimlol

Cortez the Self-Harmer (Noodle Vague), Friday, 20 April 2018 18:13 (yesterday) Permalink

https://static.wixstatic.com/media/8a99fb_d71d24ce865e404b90e7ff3dffda606d~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_588,h_392,al_c,q_80,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/8a99fb_d71d24ce865e404b90e7ff3dffda606d~mv2.webp
"That is what is going on at the moment. I didn't expect when I took on this voluntary cross-party role for my wife to be sent by a Labour Marxist anti-Semite a dead bird through the post."

It seems John Mann was lying in Parliament the other day. The dead bird incident was a whole 3 years pre-Corbyn and was "the action of disgruntled Labour member Roger Dyas-Elliott, who felt he had been unfairly barred from standing for a council seat later won by Mr Mann's wife."

calzino, Saturday, 21 April 2018 09:18 (six hours ago) Permalink

can we just post the best of all the absolute witlesssness that’s been going around on twitter this week in response to owen jones claim that journalism is a middle class cabal

excuse me while I suffocate from irony

One of the reasons I love journalism is that it really is meritocratic. If you can write or edit (and you'd be surprised how relatively rare those abilities are) you generally tend to make it. Have known many posh kids who rocked up due to connections, were useless, and vanished

— Robert Colvile (@rcolvile) April 21, 2018

||||||||, Saturday, 21 April 2018 09:27 (six hours ago) Permalink

oh it turns out loads of them are real sons and daughters of toil, never seen so much grit and determination, lols!

calzino, Saturday, 21 April 2018 09:30 (six hours ago) Permalink

OJ's comment completely backed up by All-Party Parliamentary Group on Social Mobility paper, yep thought it would be.

calzino, Saturday, 21 April 2018 09:40 (five hours ago) Permalink

david allen green’s thread was amazing

||||||||, Saturday, 21 April 2018 09:41 (five hours ago) Permalink

More like Robert LOLvile.

Fixed: Have known many posh kids who rocked up due to connections, were useless, and vanished either got the job anyway or walked into another one.

(Henry) Green container bin with face (Tom D.), Saturday, 21 April 2018 09:43 (five hours ago) Permalink

TBF this is more likely if you’re a man....

suzy, Saturday, 21 April 2018 09:47 (five hours ago) Permalink

Private school + multimillionaire parents + country house = posh kids
Private school + millionaire parents + four bed house in Islington = ‘normal’

Wag1 Shree Rajneesh (ShariVari), Saturday, 21 April 2018 09:49 (five hours ago) Permalink

Any of these people have anything to say when Aditya Chakrabortty was attacked as posh because he went to school in Edmonton? Or even about Owen Jones having Churchill’s grandson call him a “shitweasel” on Twitter only yesterday? Thought not. Brutal tone deafness from the media here.

gyac, Saturday, 21 April 2018 10:20 (five hours ago) Permalink

Did Aditya go to Latimer? If so, good on him. Half of North London tries to get their kids in there - I know of a few people whose parents sent them to Habs when they weren’t offered places there.

This is a bit like actual aristos calling Corbyn a posh kid.

suzy, Saturday, 21 April 2018 10:25 (five hours ago) Permalink

i thought Edmonton was in Canada London is confusing

Cortez the Self-Harmer (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 21 April 2018 10:38 (five hours ago) Permalink

I dunno anything about schools but 2 of my friends lived in Edmonton for years and the idea of someone being called posh for going to school there is extremely bizarre.

Colonel Poo, Saturday, 21 April 2018 10:43 (four hours ago) Permalink

I think anyone claiming that their particular profession or trade is a complete meritocracy are rather delusional, unless they are out there in the expanding "brutal meritocracy" wild west of employment, where there isn't much nepotism at work for shit jobs that no sane person would ever want. Even in the building trades there is loads of nepotism going on, but people do like to believe in their own story of hard bloody graft that got them to where they are etc!

calzino, Saturday, 21 April 2018 10:45 (four hours ago) Permalink

to be fair a lot of print journalism seems like a race to the bottom so in that sense it's a kind of meritocracy

Cortez the Self-Harmer (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 21 April 2018 10:52 (four hours ago) Permalink

Edmonton is a poor area and it’s where Chakrabortty grew up and has written about extensively. The “AH-HA! You are a posh fraud!” stuff is because he went to the local grammar school - Latymer. It’s not posh, per se, but is selective and is pretty much like many other grammar schools in that it gives poor kids an opportunity to have a solid education outside of the comp system but they’re outnumbered by the children of sharp-elbowed middle-class ppl - and it also hives off a lot of good teachers who would otherwise potentially be spread across other local schools. He has never disputed that it has given him an advantage iirc.

Wag1 Shree Rajneesh (ShariVari), Saturday, 21 April 2018 10:54 (four hours ago) Permalink

I better remind my niece from a one-parent family on the Bradley Mills Estate that she's now posh cos she's at the same Grammar school Jo Cox went to!

calzino, Saturday, 21 April 2018 11:02 (four hours ago) Permalink

Going to school at all is posh imo

Google lobster hierarchies (Bananaman Begins), Saturday, 21 April 2018 11:46 (three hours ago) Permalink

iirc you're only posh if you're smart. that also makes you gay.

Cortez the Self-Harmer (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 21 April 2018 11:55 (three hours ago) Permalink

^ gets it

Google lobster hierarchies (Bananaman Begins), Saturday, 21 April 2018 12:00 (three hours ago) Permalink

when i were a lad you left school, went straight down daily telegraph news desk and that was that – and you were lucky to have that!

— joe (@cillanoir) April 21, 2018

calzino, Saturday, 21 April 2018 12:11 (three hours ago) Permalink


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