I suppose I've been working on the premise that it is a lot like Pan's Labyrinth--somewhere on the border between Fantasy and Magic Realism.
― Dangleballs and the Ballerina (cryptosicko), Tuesday, 6 March 2018 02:07 (six years ago) link
xpost -- ...there really are fish people?
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 6 March 2018 02:08 (six years ago) link
(xpost) I can't let that one pass by: The Shape of Water has a Dougie Jones too? This is spinning out of control...
― clemenza, Tuesday, 6 March 2018 02:08 (six years ago) link
DOUGIE: "of control."
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 6 March 2018 02:17 (six years ago) link
The film ends by illustrating the reason W. C. Fields gave for not drinking water: fish fuck in it.
― Heavy Messages (jed_), Tuesday, 6 March 2018 02:24 (six years ago) link
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 6 March 2018 02:08 (fourteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Is every fiction fantasy?
This movie isn't about the existence of origin of fishboy. Its not interested in the wider questions of his a fishboy changes the world. It's not particularly even about that which makes him fantastical.
It's about a woman falling in love with him and breaking him out of captivity.
― things you looked shockingly old when you wore (darraghmac), Tuesday, 6 March 2018 02:25 (six years ago) link
Right I'm turning off this fucking predictive text shits unbearable
― things you looked shockingly old when you wore (darraghmac), Tuesday, 6 March 2018 02:26 (six years ago) link
(xpost) Lynch should have called him Dougie Two Times, like in Goodfellas. Maybe even Dougie Three Times.
― clemenza, Tuesday, 6 March 2018 02:27 (six years ago) link
Yeah that was what I found refreshing tbh - it drops you into this world where people are capturing aquamen and experimenting on them and no one's being particularly secretive about it (the fucking cleaners get to gawp at all the goings on ffs). It just is, no one seems suprised by it.
― Stoop Crone (Trayce), Tuesday, 6 March 2018 02:27 (six years ago) link
Deux-guy
― things you looked shockingly old when you wore (darraghmac), Tuesday, 6 March 2018 02:27 (six years ago) link
Exactly Trayce
If you were fighting the universe made very clear in the first ten minutes then you weren't going to enjoy it and it was a huge plus that GDT didn't give two shits for you if you weren't all-in
― things you looked shockingly old when you wore (darraghmac), Tuesday, 6 March 2018 02:29 (six years ago) link
Which I have to confess is something I do sometimes fight! I'm terrible with suspension of disbelief.
― Stoop Crone (Trayce), Tuesday, 6 March 2018 02:49 (six years ago) link
It's on the director imo. if they can't bring you with them then fuckem, shit movie
― things you looked shockingly old when you wore (darraghmac), Tuesday, 6 March 2018 02:56 (six years ago) link
it's a fairytale, not sci-fi.
― just noticed tears shaped like florida. (sic), Tuesday, 6 March 2018 04:31 (six years ago) link
Curiously, despite loving The Shape of Water (thought not nearly as much as Phantom Thread or Call Me By Your Name) I'm not sure I disagree with cryptosicko's prediction. But I think it's a very widespread thing among acclaimed films. Often, no one wants to go on about them much at least another 20 years.
― Alba, Tuesday, 6 March 2018 05:39 (six years ago) link
clemenza otm despite not having seen the movie
I loved The Shape of Water but it will not be remembered in 5 years. Get Out will go down as the movie of the decade.
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 6 March 2018 05:59 (six years ago) link
at least in America. Nothing comes close
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 6 March 2018 06:00 (six years ago) link
(xxpost)
Just to be sure people are being properly cited: 'twas clemenza who predicts the film will eventually disappear into the weird limbo that awaits many of the less memorable BP winners. I don't necessarily disagree: while the winner 20 years ago was Titanic (perhaps the last "classic" BP winner, in that it was a massive and beloved hit that also happened to fit the Oscar template as perfectly as Ben Hur or The Sound of Music), the two winners on either side of that one were The English Patient and Shakespeare in Love, and when was the last time you watched either of those? Whether The Shape of Water fits that template, I'm not sure, but I think what is being argued is that it resembles none of the other categories that BP winners fall into: the critical hit that forces its way to the top of the heap (No Country For Old Men, Moonlight) and the "LOL @ the Academy" likes of Crash or American Beauty.
― Dangleballs and the Ballerina (cryptosicko), Tuesday, 6 March 2018 06:03 (six years ago) link
Oops for mixing you two up, sorry!
Basically, I think winning best picture just kind of does a good job of killing the critical interest in a film for a good while, at least when it's critically acclaimed in the first place. No Country for Old Men has maybe been the least affected by this of recent winners because critics (and amateur critics like me) see it in the line of auteuristic work, but even that I'd say would be more talked about on ILX if it hadn't won. Del Toro is a sort of auteur, but too big budget these days to escape it. So yes, wake me up to talking about The Shape of Water again in 2037 or so.
― Alba, Tuesday, 6 March 2018 06:19 (six years ago) link
add to the anodyne feel good BP winners - The King's Speech, Argo, The Artist
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 6 March 2018 06:32 (six years ago) link
Ha. I think The Artist remains one of the best two or three best winners of my lifetime but your lifetime may vary.
― Alba, Tuesday, 6 March 2018 06:38 (six years ago) link
Agree that the artist was super
Get Out will go down as the movie of the decade.
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 6 March 2018 05:59 (three hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
You fuckin clown super troopers 2 is imminent time makes fools of us all
― things you looked shockingly old when you wore (darraghmac), Tuesday, 6 March 2018 09:16 (six years ago) link
you know what 'people' are going to remember? the Kardashians
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 6 March 2018 13:35 (six years ago) link
why should millions of people go to a movie theater when millions of people won't shut up?
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 6 March 2018 13:36 (six years ago) link
Pitchfork thinks Sufjan should have played for longer.
Seriously, though, they make a solid case for the Academy's notorious conservatism when it comes to music, at least in the Original Score category (and the failure to recognize the art of "music supervision"), but when it comes to the songs, I cannot help but cry "rockism" here: there is no acknowledgement of the continued popularity of show tunes (ask any theatre geek you know what the highlight of Sunday's broadcast was, and they'll tell you it was the Greatest Showman performance), not to mention that they have conveniently forgot about "Lose Yourself" and "It's Hard Out Here For a Pimp." Also, while I can't say I was a fan of any of this year's nominated songs, it is hard to argue that it wasn't a diverse batch: an indie-folk love song, a trad(ish) Mexican folk ballad, a Broadway-style showstopper, *two* gospel numbers.
― Dangleballs and the Ballerina (cryptosicko), Tuesday, 6 March 2018 13:37 (six years ago) link
Tbh, 10 years later I'm not sure how much Pan's has even stuck around, and that's the much better film. Held up well, though, better than I imagine Shape will. Shape was fine but not sure I need to watch it again. More interested in watching Crimson Peak again, or even Pacific Rim (though I don't know how well that will do on TV).
Per genre: Shape is pretty much Gothic horror with cute/comedic elements (not unlike Hellboy!) but the contemporary/social commentary draws it out of its genre box.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 6 March 2018 13:59 (six years ago) link
Hmm, Pan's Labyrinth probably counts as hybrid Gothic horror with social commentary, too (a la its clear forebear Spirit of the Beehive). There are fantastical elements to both, but they're not really fantasy, like Lord of the Rings is.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 6 March 2018 14:00 (six years ago) link
the Greatest Showman performance demonstrated why "musical theatre" as it now exists should be taken behind the barn and put down
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 6 March 2018 14:11 (six years ago) link
not to mention a diversity anthem from a PT Barnum biomusical, the raw chutzpah
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 6 March 2018 14:12 (six years ago) link
The year the Barnum & Bailey Circus ended, no less.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 6 March 2018 14:26 (six years ago) link
lowest TV ratings ever, much to Yam's delight
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 6 March 2018 14:36 (six years ago) link
you know what 'people' are going to remember? the Kardashians why should millions of people go to a movie theater when millions of people won't shut up?
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 6 March 2018 15:29 (six years ago) link
It's Spielberg character being booked on a train levels of brilliant u mean
― things you looked shockingly old when you wore (darraghmac), Tuesday, 6 March 2018 15:33 (six years ago) link
Booed!
Good approach.
Michael Shannon watching the film he starred in, "Shape of Water", win best picture while sitting in the Old Town Ale House. No sound on the TV, just sub-titles. Of course the juke box was rocking, and the beer flowing. Where else would you want to spend Oscar night? pic.twitter.com/WAC6uc6guZ— Bruce Elliott (@GeriatricGenius) March 6, 2018
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 6 March 2018 16:17 (six years ago) link
then he cut open his thumb and stitched it back together
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 6 March 2018 16:20 (six years ago) link
Gotta live the moment.
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 6 March 2018 16:21 (six years ago) link
the only right way to watch the oscars, unless you're compelled to attend
― mh, Tuesday, 6 March 2018 19:57 (six years ago) link
The more I thought about it--a couple of other people basically made this point already--I don't why I'm picking on The Shape of Water. Very few Best Picture winners outlast their moment for very long; I'd be surprised if there's been more than a dozen. Everyone has individual favourites, but films like On the Waterfront, The Apartment, The Godfather, or No Country for Old Men are few and far between.
― clemenza, Tuesday, 6 March 2018 22:25 (six years ago) link
Totally disagree, there are so many more than that:
The French ConnectionThe GodfatherThe Godfather Part IIOne Flew Over the Cuckoo's NestRockyAnnie HallThe Deer HunterGandhiTerms of EndearmentPlatoonThe Last EmperorRain MainThe Silence of the LambsUnforgivenSchindler's ListForrest Gump (unfortunately)BraveheartTitanicAmerican BeautyThe Lord of the Rings: Return of the KingThe DepartedThe Hurt Locker
I realize there are a lot of gaps in the 80s & 90s and a streak in the 70s, but the 00s and the 10s so far have had mostly anodyne BP winners. Moonlight, NCFOM, (and maybe Spotlight & Birdman) are the exceptions.
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 6 March 2018 22:39 (six years ago) link
a lot of those films are bobbins
― khat person (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 6 March 2018 22:42 (six years ago) link
Did movies not exist before 1970s, flappy?
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 6 March 2018 22:44 (six years ago) link
I dunno, flappy, I personally can't remember the last time I heard anyone bring up Rain Main.
― Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 6 March 2018 22:45 (six years ago) link
PlatoonThe Last EmperorRain Man
― Alba, Tuesday, 6 March 2018 22:48 (six years ago) link
Gandhi strikes me as an extremely typical here-and-forgotten BP winner. Does anyone really like it better than E.T. or Tootsie?
― Dangleballs and the Ballerina (cryptosicko), Tuesday, 6 March 2018 22:48 (six years ago) link
There are certainly more than a dozen: It Happened One Night, Gone With the Wind, Casablanca, Best Years of Our Lives, Bridge Over The River Kwai, All About Eve, Lawrence of Arabia, Sound of Music, all resonate, and that's before you get to any of the non-questionable examples before flappy bird's list
― piper at the gates of d'awwww (voodoo chili), Tuesday, 6 March 2018 22:53 (six years ago) link
*on flappy bird's list, not "before flappy bird's list"
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, March 6, 2018 5:44 PM (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
ha I thought it would be annoying if I went back further! of course there are a ton, including all the ones voodoo chili listed.
???― Alba
Platoon always rated as one of Oliver Stone's best, he's still a major director for better or worse. Also on the shortlist for Vietnam movies alongside Apocalypse Now and The Deer Hunter. The Last Emperor could be just me, I remember in 2007 it had a huge theatrical re-release and tho I didn't go, I remember walking past packed screenings and a lot of people seem excited. Rain Man became a colloquialism.
― Dangleballs and the Ballerina (cryptosicko)
well that's not the question, though i agree. Gandhi is remembered & referenced whenever Ben Kingsley comes up. Again the question isn't "are they remembered as great movies?" it's just "are they remembered?" And there are plenty of BP winners that have been completely forgotten in the culture at large and by people that love movies.
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 6 March 2018 22:57 (six years ago) link
Chariots of Fire the ultimate here then gone winner. Who watches that one? I like The Last Emperor, looks gorgeous.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 6 March 2018 22:58 (six years ago) link
gandhi got some kind of afterlife as something to show 7th graders for a week of social studies class. at least that's how I encountered it in the mid-90s. strongo's polls might be a useful reference here. was there ever one for the 70s, or just the year-by-year BP threads?WORST of the Best Picture Oscar Noms (Only The '80s Edition)WORST of the Best Picture Oscar Noms (Only the '90s Edition)WORST of the Best Picture Oscar Noms (Only the '00s Edition ... except 2009)
― Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 6 March 2018 22:58 (six years ago) link