movies where you disagree w/ the screenwriters on who the 'good guys' are

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A Christmas Carol - Scrooge is an S.O.B. but the moral of the story is he gets bullied into loving Christmas and being someone he isn't due to psychological torture

fuck you, your hat is horrible (Neanderthal), Sunday, 31 December 2017 13:50 (three weeks ago) Permalink

Run Fat Boy Run - Simon Pegg is painted as the 'good guy' and Hank Azaria the prickly 'new boyfriend', but Hank's only crime is being a decent human being, whereas Simon left his fiancee at the altar and continued to be a disappointing jackass. his redemption is..finishing a race? fuck him.

fuck you, your hat is horrible (Neanderthal), Sunday, 31 December 2017 13:52 (three weeks ago) Permalink

oh man I feel like I have like twelve of these but can't think of any right now

Newb Sybok (Doctor Casino), Sunday, 31 December 2017 13:55 (three weeks ago) Permalink

I guess all the Death Wishes probably count

fuck you, your hat is horrible (Neanderthal), Sunday, 31 December 2017 13:59 (three weeks ago) Permalink

A Christmas Carol very clearly tells us that Scrooge didn't used to be a Scrooge and the ghosts recall himself to his original self.

a Rambo in curved air (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:04 (three weeks ago) Permalink

Harry Potter is a right smug dick tho.

a Rambo in curved air (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:05 (three weeks ago) Permalink

I don't understand the thread premise. Is it that Scrooge isn't the protagonist of acc (he is, that's just a fact) or that you disagree with the film about "who Scrooge is" ie what sort of person he is (he's a Scrooge)

Bitcoin Baja (wins), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:05 (three weeks ago) Permalink

Saruman offered the only credible opposition to Sauron and the Fellowship dudes just got lucky

a Rambo in curved air (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:06 (three weeks ago) Permalink

A Christmas Carol - Scrooge is an S.O.B. but the moral of the story is he gets bullied into loving Christmas and being someone he isn't due to psychological torture


thread title s/b movies where you disagree with the moral of the story maybe

Bitcoin Baja (wins), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:09 (three weeks ago) Permalink

yeah i prolly need to change it

fuck you, your hat is horrible (Neanderthal), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:10 (three weeks ago) Permalink

Saruman offered the only credible opposition to Sauron and the Fellowship dudes just got lucky

― a Rambo in curved air (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:06 (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Something something new labour

remember the lmao (darraghmac), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:12 (three weeks ago) Permalink

Most heroes in movies are awful people tbf is that the premise

remember the lmao (darraghmac), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:12 (three weeks ago) Permalink

Valerian was one of these, for me.

El Tomboto, Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:12 (three weeks ago) Permalink

Robin Hood trustafarian rabblerousing slacking wanker

remember the lmao (darraghmac), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:13 (three weeks ago) Permalink

arguably the protagonist of ACC is "the spirit of Christmas" and Scrooge is the antagonist

a Rambo in curved air (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:17 (three weeks ago) Permalink

Se7en is the story of how Morgan Freeman's character overcomes his loss of faith in the world thru the cautionary tale of his chucklehead partner

a Rambo in curved air (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:18 (three weeks ago) Permalink

the Alien saga is the ongoing story of a noble race trying to undo the mistake they made by creating the stupidest sentient creatures that ever existed

a Rambo in curved air (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:21 (three weeks ago) Permalink

I've said this before, but I'm convinced all Trump voters would agree Biff is the hero of the Back to the Future series. Is that the kind of thing the thread is getting at? Perhaps not thoughtful enough.

Evan, Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:27 (three weeks ago) Permalink

what I really meant (and didn't word well) was movies where you disagree w/ who the good guys are. ie, the movie frames someone as the person to root for and it's like they're depicted as a pretty terrible person

fuck you, your hat is horrible (Neanderthal), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:30 (three weeks ago) Permalink

so yours fits

I've seen people say Daniel is the bad guy in Karate Kid but I don't see it

fuck you, your hat is horrible (Neanderthal), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:30 (three weeks ago) Permalink

this thread would work better imo as actual serious disagreements w the screenwriters about the moral scales of the script, rather than "lol what if the villains are the heroes" gags. (tho i have loved those, as in "Must Love Jaws." ). but yeah sort of the film equivalent of Songs where the singer/protagonist comes off as a serious dick without meaning to

Newb Sybok (Doctor Casino), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:30 (three weeks ago) Permalink

death of the author etc etc this thread can be taken there if participants desire....:)

fuck you, your hat is horrible (Neanderthal), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:35 (three weeks ago) Permalink

Where is banaka I'm sure it will have thoughts on manys the sf tale

remember the lmao (darraghmac), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:35 (three weeks ago) Permalink

ferris bueller's day off. cameron is just a depressed kid trying to stay home sick and his sociopath friend bullies him into taking his dad's extremely expensive car to joyride and otherwise commit crimez around chicago.

Men's Scarehouse - "You're gonna like the way you're shook." (m bison), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:36 (three weeks ago) Permalink

yep

a Rambo in curved air (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:36 (three weeks ago) Permalink

a lot of SF movies involve incurious fascist humans trying to wipe out "alien" creatures that are simply trying to survive, or apex preds that are just apex predding. a lot of Fantasy stuff is just straight racist obv.

a Rambo in curved air (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:37 (three weeks ago) Permalink

gilmore girls is a harrowing journey into the inextricable psychological hold one hateful young woman has over an entire town

imago, Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:38 (three weeks ago) Permalink

Jerry maguire is a total cunt, just this childish whiny self-pitting midlife crisis dude who shows up drunk at his only employee's house to sexually harass her and swear at her kid

Kind of an odd case because the film acknowledges this & has several characters call him on it, but it also seems to want us to see the sister who warns Renee Zellweger away from the guy as some kind of evil man-hating bitch, even tho she's clearly right

Bitcoin Baja (wins), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:40 (three weeks ago) Permalink

A friend of mine has always claimed Eddie Dane is the hero (or at least the moral center) of Miller's Crossing, and watching it the other night I kinda agree. He's the only character who never lies to anybody or does anything he said he wouldn't do; everyone turns on him and betrays him, from Mink to Caspar.

grawlix (unperson), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:47 (three weeks ago) Permalink

Pilate is the hero of Passion of the Christ

fuck you, your hat is horrible (Neanderthal), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:48 (three weeks ago) Permalink

Ferris Bueller needs to be called out as a wrong entry

There is simply no way the screenwriters didn't know he was a cunt

It's the born in the USA of movies

remember the lmao (darraghmac), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:53 (three weeks ago) Permalink

broseph, john hughes wrote that shit. it's a wish fulfillment for him.

Men's Scarehouse - "You're gonna like the way you're shook." (m bison), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:55 (three weeks ago) Permalink

Otm I've never watched fb & thought we were "meant" to find him likeable xp

Bitcoin Baja (wins), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:56 (three weeks ago) Permalink

movie sells him HARD as a quirky charmer with good life lessons to distribute. only thing that even sort of saves it is him realizing his actual role here is to try and help out his sad sack friend, even if the way he goes about this is pretty much unthinking and dopey.

feel like a ton of romance movies, esp. about guys that "charmingly" don't give up after that first "no" would fit the bill here.

also in burton's batman, my friend david uzumeri has made the case that the reporter dude friend of vicki vale's is treated as a comic relief/plot complication side story despite being a far more sympathetic protagonist than michael keaton - he's a regular joe putting together the clues of a theory nobody believes in!

Newb Sybok (Doctor Casino), Sunday, 31 December 2017 15:12 (three weeks ago) Permalink

I've always given John Hughes the benefit of the doubt that he hated every single one of his characters and felt nothing but contempt for the audience his movies found

remember the lmao (darraghmac), Sunday, 31 December 2017 15:17 (three weeks ago) Permalink

that is v charitable of you

Men's Scarehouse - "You're gonna like the way you're shook." (m bison), Sunday, 31 December 2017 15:18 (three weeks ago) Permalink

I've always given John Hughes the benefit of the doubt that he hated every single one of his characters and felt nothing but contempt for the audience his movies found

A reasonable theory - he did get his start at National Lampoon after all.

grawlix (unperson), Sunday, 31 December 2017 15:19 (three weeks ago) Permalink

Bilbo Baggins is a fat comfortable home counties middle englander who made his money as a hired mercenary in a war of conquest and if his wet nephew felt vaguely guilty about any of it I hardly think a token faux-native jewel sacrifice ceremony covers it

remember the lmao (darraghmac), Sunday, 31 December 2017 15:21 (three weeks ago) Permalink

xps I don't really but Bueller seems so extreme that I have to think somebody somewhere used it an experiment in how far they could push things

remember the lmao (darraghmac), Sunday, 31 December 2017 15:21 (three weeks ago) Permalink

I don't understand the thread premise. Is it that Scrooge isn't the protagonist of acc (he is, that's just a fact) or that you disagree with the film about "who Scrooge is" ie what sort of person he is (he's a Scrooge)
― Bitcoin Baja (wins)

thread title s/b movies where you disagree with the moral of the story maybe
― Bitcoin Baja (wins)

Yeah, this also confused me. I thought it meant "the protagonist is another character" not "the protagonist is meant to be great but is actually a dick".

emil.y, Sunday, 31 December 2017 15:27 (three weeks ago) Permalink

Both decent thread ideas

But I think that we probably already do the latter in individual threads for most movies ever tbf

remember the lmao (darraghmac), Sunday, 31 December 2017 15:32 (three weeks ago) Permalink

I just rewatched Fight Club for the first time in ages. Ugh, no wonder this movie is huge in Russia and with the alt-right.

Yerac, Sunday, 31 December 2017 15:50 (three weeks ago) Permalink

I'm trying to work out this Scrooge thing. (I'm most of the way through the original Dickens atm.) If you can accept the premise that ghosts and spirits exist in the way that they do in this book/film, I'm not sure it's fair to say that what they do to Scrooge is bullying. All that the Ghosts of Christmas Past and Present really do is i) remind him of his own memories and ii) expose him to other people's experiences. There might be a point about the Christmas Future ghost idk? (And if Scrooge is an allegory for the Victorian upper class, pleading to his conscience is probably nicer than a lot of other approaches to social change, which the Ghost of Christmas Present reminds him of.)

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Sunday, 31 December 2017 15:59 (three weeks ago) Permalink

A golden retriever can't be allowed in a basketball league, that's absurd.

jmm, Sunday, 31 December 2017 15:59 (three weeks ago) Permalink

It's definitely bullying in the scrooged version of acc

Bitcoin Baja (wins), Sunday, 31 December 2017 16:04 (three weeks ago) Permalink

The hero of Goodfellas is Henry’s father, who beats the shit out of him for dealing with the Mafia. If only Henry had just listened to his dad he would’ve turned out fine.

Mr. Snrub, Sunday, 31 December 2017 16:05 (three weeks ago) Permalink

yeah I'm not going to call someone a hero for beating their kid

fuck you, your hat is horrible (Neanderthal), Sunday, 31 December 2017 16:06 (three weeks ago) Permalink

and he reacted by getting deeper into it, BIG SHOCKAH

fuck you, your hat is horrible (Neanderthal), Sunday, 31 December 2017 16:06 (three weeks ago) Permalink

Jerry Maguire one of the most awful inexplicably popular films I ever saw tbh. Boring as shit and hated everyone in it

Colonel Poo, Sunday, 31 December 2017 16:09 (three weeks ago) Permalink

still never seen it and something tells me I'm better off.

fuck you, your hat is horrible (Neanderthal), Sunday, 31 December 2017 16:10 (three weeks ago) Permalink

It's a real slog tbh, you think at first it's gonna be dumb fun (show me the money!) but it's really tedious & like 6hr long

Bitcoin Baja (wins), Sunday, 31 December 2017 16:13 (three weeks ago) Permalink

The bit where he beats zellwegers kid is pretty good tbf

remember the lmao (darraghmac), Sunday, 31 December 2017 16:16 (three weeks ago) Permalink

It's definitely bullying in the scrooged version of acc

Carol Kane kicking him in the balls would count, I agree.

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Sunday, 31 December 2017 16:19 (three weeks ago) Permalink

This took a bit of thinking bc main characters (excluding minor/side/supporting characters here) tend to be more complex than purely good or bad

But maybe conrad from ordinary people. We’re to assume he is the good guy and mary tyler moore’s character is purely evil, which she is, but conrad comes off as very self centred? Still sounds a bit off though

Not a movie but maybe timothy treadwell in grizzly bear only bc herzog seems dumb enough to think he is actually a good guy?

I guess I’m not ready to assume the screenwriters’ and/or directors’ intention of creating one-sided main characters

infinity (∞), Sunday, 31 December 2017 16:20 (three weeks ago) Permalink

Sixth sense is about a cursed kid whose house is invaded by a dumb white man needing redemption.

rb (soda), Sunday, 31 December 2017 16:21 (three weeks ago) Permalink

How did we get this far without anyone bringing up Reality Bites?

Never Learn To Mike Love (C. Grisso/McCain), Sunday, 31 December 2017 17:22 (three weeks ago) Permalink

never seent it, though I remember the soundtrack well

fuck you, your hat is horrible (Neanderthal), Sunday, 31 December 2017 17:29 (three weeks ago) Permalink

The lead in the Trolls movie is a major asshole

Chuck_Tatum, Sunday, 31 December 2017 18:21 (three weeks ago) Permalink

was it Momus

fuck you, your hat is horrible (Neanderthal), Sunday, 31 December 2017 18:23 (three weeks ago) Permalink

CHRISTMAS CAROL WAS A BOOK.

pplains, Sunday, 31 December 2017 18:24 (three weeks ago) Permalink

I mean, I know most movies were books first, but some movies are STILL BOOKS FIRST.

pplains, Sunday, 31 December 2017 18:25 (three weeks ago) Permalink

Reminds me that one of my terrible thread ideas was a poll of tv shows adapting A Christmas Carol and It's a Wonderful Life for their own purposes.

I feel like the Simon & Simon episode where one Simon imagines what would have happened if he'd never been born and the other Simon drowns in a river because he wasn't there to save him is still peak pre-golden era TV, vv dramatic.

omar little, Sunday, 31 December 2017 18:29 (three weeks ago) Permalink

Always liked the Married...With Children where Al learns that his family would have been much happier if he'd never been born, so he comes back out of spite

Screamin' Jay Gould (The Yellow Kid), Sunday, 31 December 2017 18:37 (three weeks ago) Permalink

in the disney continuity, scrooge mcduck is still a stingy guy -- i thought he was supposed to be reformed?

Philip Nunez, Sunday, 31 December 2017 18:39 (three weeks ago) Permalink

HIGH FIDELITY

Joan Digimon (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 31 December 2017 20:15 (three weeks ago) Permalink

Ah cmon he's totally an asshole

remember the lmao (darraghmac), Sunday, 31 December 2017 20:19 (three weeks ago) Permalink

Pretty much after this year, most past movies have terrible good guy protagonists. Every 80s movie ever.

Yerac, Sunday, 31 December 2017 20:21 (three weeks ago) Permalink

xxp

file under americans dabble in british humour

infinity (∞), Sunday, 31 December 2017 20:22 (three weeks ago) Permalink

not sure Nick Hornby is intentionally humorous

a Rambo in curved air (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 31 December 2017 20:24 (three weeks ago) Permalink

Indiana Jones is basically everything the bad guys describe him as, and a cantankerous git to boot

a Rambo in curved air (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 31 December 2017 20:25 (three weeks ago) Permalink


Not a movie but maybe timothy treadwell in grizzly bear only bc herzog seems dumb enough to think he is actually a good guy?


What? I haven’t seen it in years, but Herzog (though perhaps pitying the guy) clearly thinks Treadwell’s a tragic fool who was in way over her head.

circa1916, Sunday, 31 December 2017 20:48 (three weeks ago) Permalink

High Fidelity the movie is very aware that the protagonist is a cock. The book far less so.

shackling the masses with plastic-wrapped snack picks (sic), Sunday, 31 December 2017 20:53 (three weeks ago) Permalink

The movie takes its time during moments where he's brushing women off or treating them callously to linger on their reaction for an extra beat. Key shot is probably when he says goodbye to Lili Taylor and merrily monologues away while she stands by the door clearly breaking down a bit but he completely ignores it.

omar little, Sunday, 31 December 2017 20:56 (three weeks ago) Permalink

Mrs. Robinson is the hero of The Graduate

El Tomboto, Sunday, 31 December 2017 21:08 (three weeks ago) Permalink

^^Reminds me of this bit from Barcelona:

Fred: You think wedding vows are going to change everything? God, your naivete is astounding! Didn't you see "The Graduate"?

Ted: You can remember "The Graduate"?

Fred: Yeah, I can remember a few things. Apparently you don't. The end? Katharine Ross has just married this really cool guy - tall, blond, incredibly popular, the make-out king of his fraternity in Berkeley - when this obnoxious Dustin Hoffman character shows up at the back of the church, acting like a total asshole. "Elaine! Elaine!" Does Katharine Ross tell Dustin Hoffman, "Get lost, creep. I'm a married woman"? No. She runs off with him - on a bus. That is the reality.

Never Learn To Mike Love (C. Grisso/McCain), Sunday, 31 December 2017 21:12 (three weeks ago) Permalink

I think it's a rite of passage when you're rescreening Fast Times At Ridgemont High, and you go from identifying with one of the kids to identifying with Mr. Hand.

Never Learn To Mike Love (C. Grisso/McCain), Sunday, 31 December 2017 21:16 (three weeks ago) Permalink

Lots of 80s movies want you to root for someone who totally doesn't deserve rooting for, obv. Ferris only one of a thousand.

I've always felt this way about Reality Bites - not so much that it needed to be told from a different (Stillerian) perspective, just that it worked hard to lionize bad people.

True challops is: I felt the exact same way about Frances Ha.

Also about Harold and Maude. Gah.

Some terrible movie people are not terrible in the ostensibly-cute-terrible-people way like Rushmore or N. Dynamite or whatever.

sympathy for the tasmanian devil (Ye Mad Puffin), Sunday, 31 December 2017 21:21 (three weeks ago) Permalink

Colossus is the hero of The Forbin Project

El Tomboto, Sunday, 31 December 2017 21:26 (three weeks ago) Permalink

OK, Paddington Bear's turn...

Mark G, Sunday, 31 December 2017 21:30 (three weeks ago) Permalink

Revenge of the Nerds, Zapped!, Farmer Ted in 16 Candles, Blaine in Pretty in Pink, Can't Buy Me Love...

Yerac, Sunday, 31 December 2017 22:00 (three weeks ago) Permalink

High Fidelity the movie is very aware that the protagonist is a cock. The book far less so.

The whole point of the book seemed to be his realization of his dickishness, I thought? How else could you read the meeting with Penny?

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Sunday, 31 December 2017 22:34 (three weeks ago) Permalink

Revenge of the Nerds

Yeah rape and spycams are HILARE

sympathy for the tasmanian devil (Ye Mad Puffin), Sunday, 31 December 2017 22:46 (three weeks ago) Permalink

Are horror and especially giant monster movies too obvious for this?

Never changed username before (cardamon), Monday, 1 January 2018 22:47 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Cliff Curtis' character from Live Free Or Die Hard needs his own franchise.

Wes Brodicus, Monday, 1 January 2018 23:16 (two weeks ago) Permalink

in the disney continuity, scrooge mcduck is still a stingy guy -- i thought he was supposed to be reformed?

― Philip Nunez, Sunday, December 31, 2017 6:39 PM (yesterday)

scrooge mcduck isn't supposed to be the same character as ebenezer scrooge, he's got a whole epic backstory about earning his money from striking gold in the klondike, etc etc, plus he seems to know the origin story of every coin in his money bin so that's why he's so attached to it all

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 1 January 2018 23:22 (two weeks ago) Permalink

also the junior woodchuck patrol v frequently show him the bounds of his narcissism and venality, he just resets every time

(nb I have no idea about "Disney continuity," only stories by his creator)

The whole point of the book seemed to be his realization of his dickishness, I thought? How else could you read the meeting with Penny?

I said less so, not "not at all"! It's been decades but Hornby seemed to find his protagonist far more adorable than Cusack, Pink and DeVincentis (though it could be argued that theirs was more charming)

Haribo Hancock (sic), Tuesday, 2 January 2018 00:12 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Reminds me that one of my terrible thread ideas was a poll of tv shows adapting A Christmas Carol and It's a Wonderful Life for their own purposes.

Omar, you gotta start that thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaBDE_8DLag

pplains, Tuesday, 2 January 2018 00:52 (two weeks ago) Permalink


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