movies where you disagree w/ the screenwriters on who the 'good guys' are

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A Christmas Carol - Scrooge is an S.O.B. but the moral of the story is he gets bullied into loving Christmas and being someone he isn't due to psychological torture

fuck you, your hat is horrible (Neanderthal), Sunday, 31 December 2017 13:50 (nine months ago) Permalink

Run Fat Boy Run - Simon Pegg is painted as the 'good guy' and Hank Azaria the prickly 'new boyfriend', but Hank's only crime is being a decent human being, whereas Simon left his fiancee at the altar and continued to be a disappointing jackass. his redemption is..finishing a race? fuck him.

fuck you, your hat is horrible (Neanderthal), Sunday, 31 December 2017 13:52 (nine months ago) Permalink

oh man I feel like I have like twelve of these but can't think of any right now

Newb Sybok (Doctor Casino), Sunday, 31 December 2017 13:55 (nine months ago) Permalink

I guess all the Death Wishes probably count

fuck you, your hat is horrible (Neanderthal), Sunday, 31 December 2017 13:59 (nine months ago) Permalink

A Christmas Carol very clearly tells us that Scrooge didn't used to be a Scrooge and the ghosts recall himself to his original self.

a Rambo in curved air (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:04 (nine months ago) Permalink

Harry Potter is a right smug dick tho.

a Rambo in curved air (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:05 (nine months ago) Permalink

I don't understand the thread premise. Is it that Scrooge isn't the protagonist of acc (he is, that's just a fact) or that you disagree with the film about "who Scrooge is" ie what sort of person he is (he's a Scrooge)

Bitcoin Baja (wins), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:05 (nine months ago) Permalink

Saruman offered the only credible opposition to Sauron and the Fellowship dudes just got lucky

a Rambo in curved air (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:06 (nine months ago) Permalink

A Christmas Carol - Scrooge is an S.O.B. but the moral of the story is he gets bullied into loving Christmas and being someone he isn't due to psychological torture


thread title s/b movies where you disagree with the moral of the story maybe

Bitcoin Baja (wins), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:09 (nine months ago) Permalink

yeah i prolly need to change it

fuck you, your hat is horrible (Neanderthal), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:10 (nine months ago) Permalink

Saruman offered the only credible opposition to Sauron and the Fellowship dudes just got lucky

― a Rambo in curved air (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:06 (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Something something new labour

remember the lmao (darraghmac), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:12 (nine months ago) Permalink

Most heroes in movies are awful people tbf is that the premise

remember the lmao (darraghmac), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:12 (nine months ago) Permalink

Valerian was one of these, for me.

El Tomboto, Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:12 (nine months ago) Permalink

Robin Hood trustafarian rabblerousing slacking wanker

remember the lmao (darraghmac), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:13 (nine months ago) Permalink

arguably the protagonist of ACC is "the spirit of Christmas" and Scrooge is the antagonist

a Rambo in curved air (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:17 (nine months ago) Permalink

Se7en is the story of how Morgan Freeman's character overcomes his loss of faith in the world thru the cautionary tale of his chucklehead partner

a Rambo in curved air (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:18 (nine months ago) Permalink

the Alien saga is the ongoing story of a noble race trying to undo the mistake they made by creating the stupidest sentient creatures that ever existed

a Rambo in curved air (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:21 (nine months ago) Permalink

I've said this before, but I'm convinced all Trump voters would agree Biff is the hero of the Back to the Future series. Is that the kind of thing the thread is getting at? Perhaps not thoughtful enough.

Evan, Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:27 (nine months ago) Permalink

what I really meant (and didn't word well) was movies where you disagree w/ who the good guys are. ie, the movie frames someone as the person to root for and it's like they're depicted as a pretty terrible person

fuck you, your hat is horrible (Neanderthal), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:30 (nine months ago) Permalink

so yours fits

I've seen people say Daniel is the bad guy in Karate Kid but I don't see it

fuck you, your hat is horrible (Neanderthal), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:30 (nine months ago) Permalink

this thread would work better imo as actual serious disagreements w the screenwriters about the moral scales of the script, rather than "lol what if the villains are the heroes" gags. (tho i have loved those, as in "Must Love Jaws." ). but yeah sort of the film equivalent of Songs where the singer/protagonist comes off as a serious dick without meaning to

Newb Sybok (Doctor Casino), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:30 (nine months ago) Permalink

death of the author etc etc this thread can be taken there if participants desire....:)

fuck you, your hat is horrible (Neanderthal), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:35 (nine months ago) Permalink

Where is banaka I'm sure it will have thoughts on manys the sf tale

remember the lmao (darraghmac), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:35 (nine months ago) Permalink

ferris bueller's day off. cameron is just a depressed kid trying to stay home sick and his sociopath friend bullies him into taking his dad's extremely expensive car to joyride and otherwise commit crimez around chicago.

Men's Scarehouse - "You're gonna like the way you're shook." (m bison), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:36 (nine months ago) Permalink

yep

a Rambo in curved air (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:36 (nine months ago) Permalink

a lot of SF movies involve incurious fascist humans trying to wipe out "alien" creatures that are simply trying to survive, or apex preds that are just apex predding. a lot of Fantasy stuff is just straight racist obv.

a Rambo in curved air (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:37 (nine months ago) Permalink

gilmore girls is a harrowing journey into the inextricable psychological hold one hateful young woman has over an entire town

imago, Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:38 (nine months ago) Permalink

Jerry maguire is a total cunt, just this childish whiny self-pitting midlife crisis dude who shows up drunk at his only employee's house to sexually harass her and swear at her kid

Kind of an odd case because the film acknowledges this & has several characters call him on it, but it also seems to want us to see the sister who warns Renee Zellweger away from the guy as some kind of evil man-hating bitch, even tho she's clearly right

Bitcoin Baja (wins), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:40 (nine months ago) Permalink

A friend of mine has always claimed Eddie Dane is the hero (or at least the moral center) of Miller's Crossing, and watching it the other night I kinda agree. He's the only character who never lies to anybody or does anything he said he wouldn't do; everyone turns on him and betrays him, from Mink to Caspar.

grawlix (unperson), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:47 (nine months ago) Permalink

Pilate is the hero of Passion of the Christ

fuck you, your hat is horrible (Neanderthal), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:48 (nine months ago) Permalink

Ferris Bueller needs to be called out as a wrong entry

There is simply no way the screenwriters didn't know he was a cunt

It's the born in the USA of movies

remember the lmao (darraghmac), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:53 (nine months ago) Permalink

broseph, john hughes wrote that shit. it's a wish fulfillment for him.

Men's Scarehouse - "You're gonna like the way you're shook." (m bison), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:55 (nine months ago) Permalink

Otm I've never watched fb & thought we were "meant" to find him likeable xp

Bitcoin Baja (wins), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:56 (nine months ago) Permalink

movie sells him HARD as a quirky charmer with good life lessons to distribute. only thing that even sort of saves it is him realizing his actual role here is to try and help out his sad sack friend, even if the way he goes about this is pretty much unthinking and dopey.

feel like a ton of romance movies, esp. about guys that "charmingly" don't give up after that first "no" would fit the bill here.

also in burton's batman, my friend david uzumeri has made the case that the reporter dude friend of vicki vale's is treated as a comic relief/plot complication side story despite being a far more sympathetic protagonist than michael keaton - he's a regular joe putting together the clues of a theory nobody believes in!

Newb Sybok (Doctor Casino), Sunday, 31 December 2017 15:12 (nine months ago) Permalink

I've always given John Hughes the benefit of the doubt that he hated every single one of his characters and felt nothing but contempt for the audience his movies found

remember the lmao (darraghmac), Sunday, 31 December 2017 15:17 (nine months ago) Permalink

that is v charitable of you

Men's Scarehouse - "You're gonna like the way you're shook." (m bison), Sunday, 31 December 2017 15:18 (nine months ago) Permalink

I've always given John Hughes the benefit of the doubt that he hated every single one of his characters and felt nothing but contempt for the audience his movies found

A reasonable theory - he did get his start at National Lampoon after all.

grawlix (unperson), Sunday, 31 December 2017 15:19 (nine months ago) Permalink

Bilbo Baggins is a fat comfortable home counties middle englander who made his money as a hired mercenary in a war of conquest and if his wet nephew felt vaguely guilty about any of it I hardly think a token faux-native jewel sacrifice ceremony covers it

remember the lmao (darraghmac), Sunday, 31 December 2017 15:21 (nine months ago) Permalink

xps I don't really but Bueller seems so extreme that I have to think somebody somewhere used it an experiment in how far they could push things

remember the lmao (darraghmac), Sunday, 31 December 2017 15:21 (nine months ago) Permalink

I don't understand the thread premise. Is it that Scrooge isn't the protagonist of acc (he is, that's just a fact) or that you disagree with the film about "who Scrooge is" ie what sort of person he is (he's a Scrooge)
― Bitcoin Baja (wins)

thread title s/b movies where you disagree with the moral of the story maybe
― Bitcoin Baja (wins)

Yeah, this also confused me. I thought it meant "the protagonist is another character" not "the protagonist is meant to be great but is actually a dick".

emil.y, Sunday, 31 December 2017 15:27 (nine months ago) Permalink

Both decent thread ideas

But I think that we probably already do the latter in individual threads for most movies ever tbf

remember the lmao (darraghmac), Sunday, 31 December 2017 15:32 (nine months ago) Permalink

I just rewatched Fight Club for the first time in ages. Ugh, no wonder this movie is huge in Russia and with the alt-right.

Yerac, Sunday, 31 December 2017 15:50 (nine months ago) Permalink

I'm trying to work out this Scrooge thing. (I'm most of the way through the original Dickens atm.) If you can accept the premise that ghosts and spirits exist in the way that they do in this book/film, I'm not sure it's fair to say that what they do to Scrooge is bullying. All that the Ghosts of Christmas Past and Present really do is i) remind him of his own memories and ii) expose him to other people's experiences. There might be a point about the Christmas Future ghost idk? (And if Scrooge is an allegory for the Victorian upper class, pleading to his conscience is probably nicer than a lot of other approaches to social change, which the Ghost of Christmas Present reminds him of.)

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Sunday, 31 December 2017 15:59 (nine months ago) Permalink

A golden retriever can't be allowed in a basketball league, that's absurd.

jmm, Sunday, 31 December 2017 15:59 (nine months ago) Permalink

It's definitely bullying in the scrooged version of acc

Bitcoin Baja (wins), Sunday, 31 December 2017 16:04 (nine months ago) Permalink

The hero of Goodfellas is Henry’s father, who beats the shit out of him for dealing with the Mafia. If only Henry had just listened to his dad he would’ve turned out fine.

Mr. Snrub, Sunday, 31 December 2017 16:05 (nine months ago) Permalink

yeah I'm not going to call someone a hero for beating their kid

fuck you, your hat is horrible (Neanderthal), Sunday, 31 December 2017 16:06 (nine months ago) Permalink

and he reacted by getting deeper into it, BIG SHOCKAH

fuck you, your hat is horrible (Neanderthal), Sunday, 31 December 2017 16:06 (nine months ago) Permalink

Jerry Maguire one of the most awful inexplicably popular films I ever saw tbh. Boring as shit and hated everyone in it

Colonel Poo, Sunday, 31 December 2017 16:09 (nine months ago) Permalink

still never seen it and something tells me I'm better off.

fuck you, your hat is horrible (Neanderthal), Sunday, 31 December 2017 16:10 (nine months ago) Permalink

Duckie is neither an asshole nor gay. He is a duckman. Duh.

Benson and the Jets (ENBB), Monday, 23 July 2018 19:07 (two months ago) Permalink

what the sequel did with the characters- and this may all be in welshs work- was shite

dele alli my bookmarks (darraghmac), Monday, 23 July 2018 19:12 (two months ago) Permalink

obv luke skywalker is a dangerous terrorist

dele alli my bookmarks (darraghmac), Monday, 23 July 2018 19:13 (two months ago) Permalink

what the sequel did with the characters- and this may all be in welshs work- was shite

Welsh's sequels were a totally different kind of shite. But shite nonetheless

Number None, Monday, 23 July 2018 19:15 (two months ago) Permalink

sequels are a general formal problem for the idea of the anti-hero: discuss

mark s, Monday, 23 July 2018 19:16 (two months ago) Permalink

feel like a lot of anti-ferris takes don't acknowledge that there's a lot of pathos in that movie due to the heavily implied sense that ferris's life post-high school is gonna be pretty bleak, and that we're witnessing the last happy period of his life.

Agree with YMP that this is a challops. Ferris is about as privileged as someone could be.

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Monday, 23 July 2018 19:18 (two months ago) Permalink

its more that hes a cunt which is separate

dele alli my bookmarks (darraghmac), Monday, 23 July 2018 19:19 (two months ago) Permalink

frodo: was told not to wear the ring

dele alli my bookmarks (darraghmac), Monday, 23 July 2018 19:20 (two months ago) Permalink

lol yeah ferris is definitely a future wall street bro who eventually takes unacceptable risks in the lead-up to the financial crisis

ant banks and wasp (voodoo chili), Monday, 23 July 2018 19:21 (two months ago) Permalink

no way it's barely even subtext that Ferris is fucked and his whole motivation is that his charmed existence is about to expire. Rage against the sting of the light. Yes he is privileged (and a cunt) but I dunno I still feel for the privileged cunts of my adolescence who "peaked" in high school.

That Ferris is cut and dried the "bad guy" is imo just glib counterintuitive retweet bait passing as insight.

ryan, Monday, 23 July 2018 19:49 (two months ago) Permalink

sting = dying obv.

ryan, Monday, 23 July 2018 19:50 (two months ago) Permalink

rage against the death sting

fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Monday, 23 July 2018 19:50 (two months ago) Permalink

his charmed existence is about to expire

present textual evidence for this plz - and Ferris saying "this is all about to be over for me!" doesn't really qualify, cuz what does he know about the future? There's really nothing in the movie that presents an axe dangling over his head, that he'll have to get a shitty job or not get into college or his sister will get revenge on him, there's none of that.

Οὖτις, Monday, 23 July 2018 19:53 (two months ago) Permalink

xp re: Ferris. He's been weaseling out of consequences forever; what evidence is that it will stop happening?

He erases his unexcused absences via modem. You don't think he's gonna slide into college / jobs / homeownership with the same oiliness? Shit, I know I would have. And I kind of did!

nonsensei (Ye Mad Puffin), Monday, 23 July 2018 20:14 (two months ago) Permalink

"ferris is an object of pity" is overthink wish fulfilment

dele alli my bookmarks (darraghmac), Monday, 23 July 2018 20:18 (two months ago) Permalink

Whose wish is it fulfilling?

Being a quasi-tragic figure isn't the same as being an object of "pity" unless you're Aristotle. Ferris isn't "good" either. His "stop and smell the roses" attitude is precisely what's gonna lead to his destruction. I think he's actually (for the time) a convincing depiction of what self-actualization would look like for a 17 year old--that adults know this comes at some cost seems obvious to me. But that this would also arouse ressentiment also seems obvious!

ryan, Monday, 23 July 2018 20:27 (two months ago) Permalink

I haven't seen it in a while--what textual evidence is there that Ferris' charmed/charming lifestyle will come to an end as he becomes an adult?

Dan I., Monday, 23 July 2018 20:31 (two months ago) Permalink

xp

My basic point is that "Ferris is a generic asshole" is also a hyper-literalist bad-faith reading of the movie fwiw.

ryan, Monday, 23 July 2018 20:31 (two months ago) Permalink

I haven't seen it in a while--what textual evidence is there that Ferris' charmed/charming lifestyle will come to an end as he becomes an adult?

― Dan I., Monday, July 23, 2018 1:31 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

literally none

( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Monday, 23 July 2018 20:34 (two months ago) Permalink

Ferris does literally nothing other than smell roses. At no point do you see him actually doing any of the work of being a high school student, let alone the work of being a good person/citizen/son. And there are literally no consequences for it ever. The dude skates.

You may say that "adults know this comes at some cost," but then we also know about the degree to which Martin Shkreli, the Trump boys, Brock Turner, etc. get to skate.

nonsensei (Ye Mad Puffin), Monday, 23 July 2018 20:34 (two months ago) Permalink

it's true he is not generic, he is a very finely drawn asshole

Οὖτις, Monday, 23 July 2018 20:34 (two months ago) Permalink

y'all are all cops

ryan, Monday, 23 July 2018 20:37 (two months ago) Permalink

yeah I mean I guess I'd need to rewatch it but I find Ryan's take highly unconvincing. The world is full of rich assholes who were rich assholes in high school and continue to be rich assholes. They fuck up and get away with it throughout their life because they are rich and connected and know how to have the attitude of someone who shit doesn't stick to. This is exactly who goes to work in investment banking.

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Monday, 23 July 2018 20:38 (two months ago) Permalink

guys who "peak in high school" are usually working class joes who don't go to college

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Monday, 23 July 2018 20:40 (two months ago) Permalink

I've seen the studies

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Monday, 23 July 2018 20:40 (two months ago) Permalink

I recommend you all skip school take a pampered ferrari out for a reckless spin sometime.

ryan, Monday, 23 July 2018 20:41 (two months ago) Permalink

I think it's a perfect comedy film, to be clear!

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Monday, 23 July 2018 20:42 (two months ago) Permalink

Ryan

do u identify with ferris

is this a cushy past catching up with u

sympathies man thatll kill ilx cred

dele alli my bookmarks (darraghmac), Monday, 23 July 2018 20:43 (two months ago) Permalink

everyone on ilx peaked in school

mark s, Monday, 23 July 2018 20:44 (two months ago) Permalink

show me the lie

mark s, Monday, 23 July 2018 20:44 (two months ago) Permalink

Ryan

do u identify with ferris

no i identify with cameron! hence my affection for him.

ryan, Monday, 23 July 2018 20:45 (two months ago) Permalink

ur dad had that car

lowest of low ilxors sackcloth thus man

dele alli my bookmarks (darraghmac), Monday, 23 July 2018 20:51 (two months ago) Permalink

my dad was just about equally protective of our minivan.

ryan, Monday, 23 July 2018 20:54 (two months ago) Permalink

youre under the microscope now watch out all im sayin

back on topic:

chickens in chicken run. youre chickens, you have a role in society and are pretty well treated for yr part in it no takebacks when the time comes you chickeny fucks

dele alli my bookmarks (darraghmac), Monday, 23 July 2018 20:58 (two months ago) Permalink

They Live

The glasses were the good guy

fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Monday, 23 July 2018 21:00 (two months ago) Permalink

uh Birth of a Nation

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Monday, 23 July 2018 21:01 (two months ago) Permalink

when ryan was in Egypt's land

let my ryan go

nonsensei (Ye Mad Puffin), Monday, 23 July 2018 21:17 (two months ago) Permalink

re: avengers
thanos was right

mh, Monday, 23 July 2018 21:25 (two months ago) Permalink

yeah

dele alli my bookmarks (darraghmac), Monday, 23 July 2018 22:12 (two months ago) Permalink

ET should have stayed

dele alli my bookmarks (darraghmac), Monday, 23 July 2018 22:12 (two months ago) Permalink

Does Simba demonstrate any qualities during the film that suggest he would be a good leader, or are we simply accepting that because his father was King that he should in turn be King?

AlanSmithee, Monday, 23 July 2018 22:25 (two months ago) Permalink

that's kind of how monarchies work...

Number None, Monday, 23 July 2018 22:28 (two months ago) Permalink

I have no patience for you sad sacks who are okay with eliminating sentient life by <100%. Thanos is a schmuck, full stop. He’s trying to save the two-legs category out of a cheesy Malthusian conceit.

Go big or go home, chumps; if you think people don’t deserve to exist, just fucking own it.

El Tomboto, Monday, 23 July 2018 22:34 (two months ago) Permalink

clearly not his point he had environmental concerns but was like totally into ppl too

dele alli my bookmarks (darraghmac), Monday, 23 July 2018 22:53 (two months ago) Permalink

Lotsa unmanned planes crashed

fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Monday, 23 July 2018 22:55 (two months ago) Permalink

hmm thats a good point thats gotta have fucked up his 50/50 split right, the collateral damage

thanos u reckless sonofabitch

hes just another ferris

dele alli my bookmarks (darraghmac), Monday, 23 July 2018 22:56 (two months ago) Permalink

I just finished Toni Erdmann and the villain is not machinery of capitalism but rather it is Toni Erdmann but also maybe we are meant to think so?

Philip Nunez, Friday, 27 July 2018 18:19 (two months ago) Permalink

Toni Erdmann is Ferris + 50 years.

home, home and deranged (ledge), Friday, 27 July 2018 18:27 (two months ago) Permalink

Hm... he did steal an expensive vehicle under disguise...

Philip Nunez, Friday, 27 July 2018 18:33 (two months ago) Permalink


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