ALTERED CARBON: a takeshi kovacs netflix series adapting richard k. morgan's cyberpunk pulp novels

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pretty decent adaptation?

going to preemptively say this is a full-on spoilers zone since it's a netflix series dumped as one 10 episode block

mh, Monday, 5 February 2018 18:43 (two weeks ago) Permalink

the show is mainly an adaptation of the first kovacs book, with backstory both blended in and changed

one thing that seems like a reasonable change but isn't really spelled out is that in the books, the "envoy corps" were a specialized military group that kovacs was part of, and the revolutionary group led by quellcrist falconer ("quell") was something he came to after having been an envoy. they don't really explain what an "envoy" is in the show, other than implying he has special training and it came from being part of the revolutionary group, not a military program

they also changed the entire family backstory. in the books, he mentions his family back on his home planet a few times but never has any inclination to visit them. the role the sister character plays in the show is a composite of a different character that played that role and completely new material

mh, Monday, 5 February 2018 18:53 (two weeks ago) Permalink

is the show as comically over the top, sex and violence-wise, as the book?

adam, Monday, 5 February 2018 19:03 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Seems to me the tone is pretty spot on. Aside from the tv-adaption changes mentioned (which haven't been egregious), this is pretty excellent and faithful (three eps to go).

I was worried that the first couple eps would turn people off given that the Blade Runner sequel had literally just hit home video.

Cyberkudos for casting Matt Frewer ('Max Headroom') as the Fight Drome host. I knew their hearts were in the right place when I saw him turn up!

Brakhage, Monday, 5 February 2018 19:07 (two weeks ago) Permalink

I would guess that the Stronghold bridge is up in Vancouver?

Brakhage, Monday, 5 February 2018 19:15 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Not liking all of the casual misogyny in the series. Hookers leering from every window, rich guys killing women and getting them new sleeves, etc. Can we tweak this vision of the future a little to get a little less cynical about how women get treated?

DJI, Monday, 5 February 2018 19:22 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Was interested in this, but the 'reception' chapter of its wiki was highly off-putting.

Le Bateau Ivre, Monday, 5 February 2018 19:29 (two weeks ago) Permalink

xp Basically what DJI says

Le Bateau Ivre, Monday, 5 February 2018 19:29 (two weeks ago) Permalink

rich guys killing women and getting them new sleeves

it's an undercurrent in the novel and maybe a little too stealthy of a subplot in the show, but this is the *actual* crime in the series (although the second part is not accurate) and the end of the season is, in fact, a reckoning with that

there is absolutely nothing subtle about the show

mh, Monday, 5 February 2018 19:35 (two weeks ago) Permalink

i really loved the titular novel in high school but man this feels like an overly bloody misogynistic chore to watch, i got 3 episodes in and sort of feel 'why bother' about the rest

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Monday, 5 February 2018 19:45 (two weeks ago) Permalink

was the novel really like this? i guess it was 15 years ago i read it, i can't really remember

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Monday, 5 February 2018 19:45 (two weeks ago) Permalink

it was, in some ways it's worse

I think the fact we're able to market hard-boiled future stuff like this, complete with the (and I swear to god I will not harp about William Gibson past this because every internet nerd is) people living on a bridge, a couple decades after it was laughed off as unfilmable by studios is some weird reckoning

mh, Monday, 5 February 2018 19:53 (two weeks ago) Permalink

it's kind of wild that Hayley Law filmed this at some point while doing Riverdale and barely had to make any costume changes to go from Josie and the Pussycats on that show to her role on this one? it seems like an indictment of 2018

mh, Monday, 5 February 2018 19:55 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Goddammit but isn’t cyberpunk my genre weakness

Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 07:22 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Yo why the fuck ain’t “capitalism” ever uttered in this series, if the Av Club review is correct?

Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 07:23 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Also, Poe should have been played by Paul F Tompkins

Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 07:30 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Bit much when they name episodes after Joy Division songs, huh

Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 08:10 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Also, Poe should have been played by Paul F Tompkins


truth-bomb

i gotta be a gazpacho man (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 09:00 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Yo why the fuck ain’t “capitalism” ever uttered in this series, if the Av Club review is correct?

Yeah making the sister the villain wasn't exactly congruent with the themes of the material, really tacked on and made for a exceptionally boring finale. Still if they announced an adaptation of the next book in the series with a new cast I'd be up for it

Brakhage, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 19:26 (two weeks ago) Permalink

I think the fundamental thing I get from this adaptation is that it's pretty faithful to the source material, I felt compelled to watch it and don't regret it, and I really wonder whether adapting this work was the right move at all.

There are so many ways you could bring all of these retro-cyberpunk things to screen, and done all of the things that this series did, with a story that isn't pulp-retrograde.

mh, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 19:36 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Isn't the hook of the first book that it *is* pulp retrograde? I don't object to the tone, which I think they got right, but they opted for The Big Sleep (it's always family grievances) rather than Chinatown (society is too complex to be comprehended or made just, and the rich are beyond redemption)

The next book's more of a Zulu/Aliens/Raiders thing so it's still pulpy but with more of a team emphasis, so it might avoid some of the tone you're not into with this series

Totally agreed with you that there are many things I'm seeing now in film/TV that should really have never been adapted. The race to adapt or reboot every piece of existing IP has been exhausting and is getting maddening

Brakhage, Wednesday, 7 February 2018 20:36 (one week ago) Permalink

Apart from the finale, I really enjoyed this.

Looked absolutely stunning so I'm guessing Netflix threw a shitload of money at it.

groovypanda, Wednesday, 7 February 2018 21:32 (one week ago) Permalink

didn't take long before I got to the "yup, filmed in Vancouver" point by tallying actors who have appeared in at least one other science fiction show

mh, Wednesday, 7 February 2018 22:07 (one week ago) Permalink

oh man, I knew there was another nerdy cyberpunk connection: Kristin Lehman, who plays Miriam Bancroft, was in the X-Files episode written by WG

mh, Wednesday, 7 February 2018 22:10 (one week ago) Permalink

Should I watch this or the 2nd season of the Expanse instead?

Chuck_Tatum, Friday, 9 February 2018 13:33 (one week ago) Permalink

Can you not watch both?

groovypanda, Friday, 9 February 2018 13:38 (one week ago) Permalink

I could! It would take months, but I could.

I guess, "If you had to commit to one multiepisode Netflix sci-fi show while continuing your years-long-binge of TNG and DS9, which would it be tfirs?"

Chuck_Tatum, Friday, 9 February 2018 13:40 (one week ago) Permalink

my review: enjoyable but medium

paid by the word :(

Roberto Spiralli, Friday, 9 February 2018 14:40 (one week ago) Permalink

Bit much when they name episodes after Joy Division songs, huh

― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish)

look he lost me when he named his protagonist "takeshi kovacs". so what, your protagonist is a cross between beat takeshi and ernie kovacs? go away. that shit is worse than the name neal stephenson gave to the lead character of "snow crash".

ziggy the ginhead (rushomancy), Friday, 9 February 2018 14:44 (one week ago) Permalink

I could believe the former but there's no reason to think of the latter? kovacs being the most common hungarian name

mh, Friday, 9 February 2018 14:54 (one week ago) Permalink

otoh I'm all for being super-cynical and believing he's named after a character from Alan Moore's Watchmen

mh, Friday, 9 February 2018 14:55 (one week ago) Permalink

Should I watch this or the 2nd season of the Expanse instead?

― Chuck_Tatum, Friday, February 9, 2018 1:33 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

expanse imo

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 9 February 2018 15:02 (one week ago) Permalink

there's an art to novelty character names. "palmer eldritch" is a great novelty character name. "'saure' bummer" is a great novelty character name. takeshi kovacs is just awful.

man a real cyberpunk character name would be somebody who names themselves after a rush song or something else they thought was cool when they were twelve (i was "zaphod") and then got stuck with it.

ziggy the ginhead (rushomancy), Friday, 9 February 2018 15:09 (one week ago) Permalink

fair criticism

mh, Friday, 9 February 2018 15:15 (one week ago) Permalink

Fun to spot almost everybody who was in Dollhouse, plus the people from Buffy, Bones, and Rome.

It's really tough for me to think of them without prior roles, which I guess could involve a type of meta-fun. Nothing about the show's logic prevents all these shows as being in the same universe, and Purefoy is just using a very well-preserved ancient Roman body.

I will finish what I (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, 9 February 2018 15:24 (one week ago) Permalink

man a real cyberpunk character name would be somebody who names themselves after a rush song or something else they thought was cool when they were twelve (i was "zaphod") and then got stuck with it.

― ziggy the ginhead (rushomancy), Friday, February 9, 2018 3:09 PM (twenty minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the ready player one thread is that-a-way

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 9 February 2018 15:30 (one week ago) Permalink

Just realized where I knew Ato Essandoh from: Vinyl.

I will finish what I (Ye Mad Puffin), Saturday, 10 February 2018 01:16 (one week ago) Permalink

Oh and also noticed that how Chris Conners plays Poe is disturbingly close to how Michael Ian Black plays Peepers on Another Period.

https://i0.wp.com/wherever-i-look.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Altered-Carbon-Season-1-Episode-2-Fallen-Angel-Chris-Conner-as-Poe.png?resize=595%2C333&ssl=1

https://media1.giphy.com/media/xT8qBfqm4VjeO31vri/200_s.gif

I will finish what I (Ye Mad Puffin), Saturday, 10 February 2018 01:26 (one week ago) Permalink

Okay I just saw a mook yan jong dummy in a later ep and I’m trying to find an interview with Larnell Stovall about how many fighting styles he wasn’t able to get into the show.

Also:

did that episode of altered carbon really just use a cover of "more human than human" with shitty made up lyrics over a fight scene with a cyber ninja. are you fucking trying to make me cum bro

— mr grace mugabe (@mattvbrady) February 11, 2018

Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Sunday, 11 February 2018 08:27 (one week ago) Permalink

every post i read in this thread just makes me think of "top knot detective"

ziggy the ginhead (rushomancy), Sunday, 11 February 2018 12:14 (one week ago) Permalink

i'm 6 episodes in and really enjoying it. of course the most memorable scene from the book for me was when Miriam was describing her secret island where she fucks her clones and bribes Takeshi w/that possibility and i'm glad they included it. actually no the most memorable was when he emerges from being tortured in virtual and lays waste to the entire compound and real kills the entire staff.

omar little, Saturday, 17 February 2018 02:53 (three days ago) Permalink

looking forward to discussing once you hit the third act

Larry Elleison (rogermexico.), Saturday, 17 February 2018 03:21 (three days ago) Permalink


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