Margot Kidder (RIP)

I haven't seen all of these

This'll almost certainly be Sisters, for me, though I haven't seen the first two Supes in ages. Or Black Christmas ever.

Anyone have anything to say about Mazursky's Jules and Jim remake, Willie and Phil?

team black christmas

also rip, what a legend

I dunno where one can watch Heartaches, but she's charming and adult in it. The last word is always the key for her. Lois Lane didn't feel like a comic book dame – she smoked, didn't take shit, felt believably, comfortably sexual.

Lois Lane didn't feel like a comic book dame – she smoked, didn't take shit, felt believably, comfortably sexual.

also a big fan of hot dogs, orange juice, and misspelling

kidder def overcame the shortcomings of the script's idea of lois lane tho

re: Black Christmas

Margot Kidder remembers making the film was "fun. I really bonded with Andrea Martin, filming in Toronto and Ontario. Olivia Hussey was a bit of an odd one. She was obsessed with the idea of falling in love with Paul McCartney through her psychic. We were a little hard on her for things like that."

URSA: What an undemanding male this Superman must be.

LOIS: Yeah, you can use a nip and tuck here and there yourself, sister.

she was pretty lefty AFAICT which is always a nice thing to learn, also probably the most famous person ever from Yellowknife? RIP.

the J & J re-interpretation is a good period piece but I can't get over Ray Sharkey and the cute but dim Michael Ontkean vying for her.

Never heard of Heartaches but I’ll definitely look for it, especially since it’s directed by Donald Shebib, who made my (and clemenza’s) beloved Goin’ Down the Road. I’m hoping being in Canada will make it easier to locate, though this is not always the case.

I voted Willie and Phil because I just watched it and it was cool

Black goddam Christmas.

RIP you gorgeous thing you

Don't know who else was up for role of Lois Lane in '78, but I don't think anyone could have done any better--her voice, her toothiness, everything was perfect. As I mentioned on some other thread, I saw Willie and Phil on release; I figure there were approximately 30 of us. Her borderline fame exceeded her filmography; sequels aside, I can't see anything of note after Willie and Phil. I remember she had a strange, newsworthy episode at some point. I don't think I've seen Heartaches. Karen Black, Susan Anspach, now Kidder--the only-in-the-'70s actresses are dying off.

Shhh dont jinx it for faye dunaway

Kidder was touching and believable when she confesses her love for Superman in Superman II; she doesn't even hide that she wants to fuck him in his Fortress of Solitude water bed.

apparently I missed her appearance on "Smallville"

never saw the Mazursky movie; besides the first 3 Supes, only caught her in Sisters and The Great Waldo Pepper.

isn't one of the Lois spelling gags "How many P's in 'rapist'?" RIP '70s

Has anyone seen The Gravy Train? Quite a write-up on Wikipedia:

Although initially overlooked by audiences and critics alike, it has in recent years developed a cult following, and has been highly praised by filmmakers such as Quentin Tarantino and David Gordon Green. And it's written by Terrence Malick. There's a clean print on YouTube I'm going to download.

(Those italics should be in quotation marks...)

Classic SNL skit from when she hosted in '79 (Musical Guest: The Chieftains!):

http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/fred-garvin-male-prostitute/n8669

Just watching the flying scene from Superman, which I'll show to the class tomorrow--having just seen A Few Good Men, she and Demi Moore really look a lot alike, or at least in those two films.

(Tried to watch the link above, not available in my country. You're a great quasi-Canadian, Lorne Michaels.)

Saw this shared on another forum: a tart Kidder sounding off (in what was an otherwise pedestrian Coming Attractions puff piece for British TV) about her reduced role in Superman IV

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGvfl5YF0-w

Is there any consensus on the Lester vs. the Donner cuts? We watched Lester’s last night (my first time seeing it in decades), and it definitely feels rather gracelessly assembled, like there were key scenes missing. Also, Hackman and Beatty’s capering in these films always annoyed me.

That said, a lot of the film’s pleasures certainly remain, not least of all the interplay between Kidder and Reeve. Someone commented over on the Obit thread that a key to these films’ success was the way that the two played their scenes together as 40s screwball comedy, and I agree. The Lois and Clark scenes are never simply filler.

Finally watched Superman IV: The Quest For Peace last night, as it was the only one of the Reeve series I hadn't seen. About as bad as I expected, but worth a few LOLs nonetheless; having the supervillain speak in Gene Hackman's dubbed-in voice is exactly the kind of audacious stupidity that I imagine shlock-hunters look for in a Golan and Globus production. Also, unlike the third film, Kidder's role here isn't a glorified cameo.

the reeve/kidder scenes in superman iv are all outstanding imo, especially considering the rest of the movie (which is technically bad but i love it anyway)

We've been watching the original in class the past couple of days. The photography in the Glenn Ford section is beautiful--probably as good an evocation of that panoramic 1950s George Stevens style as you'll find. The film's dedicated to Geoffrey Unsworth, the cinematographer, who died soon after its release.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

I ended up voting for the original Superman, after my attempted rewatch of Sisters was thwarted by the copy I got from the library containing the disc for Holiday Inn instead. I kind of remember preferring the second film to the original as a kid due to the original's slow start, but I find myself responding more positively to the pre-Metropolis stuff now for basically the same reason that clemenza noted above: the cinematography, and the overall staging of these early scenes, captures a whole 50s nostalgia vibe that a lot of films went for at the time, but which feels particularly graceful and unforced here.

I never quite know what to make of the moment, during the Lois and Clark flying sequence, where Lois mentally recites her poem to Superman; on one hand, the poem itself, artless and childlike, sounds nothing at all like something that would come from her character, but on the other, I love that the film allows us to regard Superman from her perspective. The scenes between Kidder and Reeve (who, I read in Ebert's Great Movies essay, modelled Clark on Cary Grant in Bringing Up Baby) remain my favourite thing about the whole series.

cryptosicko, to answer your question a couple weeks ago (I missed it!)...

I'll shock most fans and say I prefer what Lester did: add jokes and asides and cutaways while still keeping the pathos of the story. There is no official Superman II cut. I'm spoiled by a cut that played on ABC in 1985 that I recorded and watched through the '90s; it added lots of scenes not in the original release.

I never quite know what to make of the moment, during the Lois and Clark flying sequence, where Lois mentally recites her poem to Superman; on one hand, the poem itself, artless and childlike, sounds nothing at all like something that would come from her character, but on the other, I love that the film allows us to regard Superman from her perspective.

i feel the same way about it! weird and out of place and so charming

I'll shock most fans and say I prefer what Lester did: add jokes and asides and cutaways while still keeping the pathos of the story

same, even though i think superman 2 is still kind of a disaster

Nah. The raw material is excellent and better (faster, funnier, scarier) than the original.

plus it has uh ZOC

lol ZOD

hey me calling something a disaster doesn't mean i think it's bad

it's not better than one though

three is the best (sorry lois)

I'll admit it's a mess, what with the voice dubbing (Hackman, Sarah Douglas).

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

ABC deleted scenes collection, as Alfred refers to upthread:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5HF29wZ1sQ

I guess I know what I’m watching this Christmas!

MEN.

TO KILL.

Brad, what're we gonna do with you, sweetie?

Phantom Zone.

:'(

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/superman-star-margot-kidder-died-self-inflicted-drug-alcohol-overdose-235307515.html

oof

Very sorry to hear this.

Lovely tribute by a friend of hers.
https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/08/10/the-blazing-light-of-margie-kidder/

Heartaches is here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3CAMpIvJ44

Awful. She was the most memorable part of the Superman films.

Heartaches is basically a female version of the same director's Goin' Down the Road, only slicker, more sentimental and with more broad comedy. That said, Kidder and Annie Potts are both terrific; the latter, in particular, I'm starting to feel either never got much of a chance to shine onscreen, or I just underrated her all this time. I like that it never made the character of the husband into a villain or anything other than a likeable clod. The movie is very even handed in its treatment of men and women as equal opportunity fuckups; everyone in the film is basically a good person capable of bouts of stupidity. It's all a bit too pat, in the end, but hardly an unpleasant way to spend 90 minutes on YouTube.

:((( margot <3

Agreed that Heartaches is a pleasant diversion with nice performances. It was one of Kidder's personal favourites, but like Potts, she seemed underused in films, probably due in part to her own ambivalence towards fame. Looking at her filmography, she had few feature film leads, even after her breakout in '78-79. Most of her best roles/performances were in supporting parts (Black Christmas, Superman) or co-starring, with less screen time than her co-lead (Heartaches, Sisters).

the lois common denominator n'est pas