A Thread to discuss Too Old to Die Young, an Amazon series from Nicolas Winding Refn

This looks bonkers!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4Dol6VpmWc

apparently the episodes are all 90 mins or some ungodly length?

Worked so well for that Romanoffs bollocks

heard an interview w/ the Brube a couple of months ago where he said he’d been freaked out that Refn was shooting the scripts as 90 min episodes, but then he saw a few & got it

Watched the first two over the weekend. There's a definite Twin Peaks vibe with the unsettling and drawn out scenes but unsure what to make it of it so far.

First episode was excellent but second was a bit... mundane, despite some of the graphic violence. Looked beautiful though.

Watched the first one (not sure how to interpret yet). Anyone here go the distance?

Ha! I started this thread but didn't even realize it was out yet. Guess I'll have to check it out...

I've watched the third now too and starting to think it's style over substance.

However, I know that the 4th & 5th episodes were the ones he took to Cannes so maybe it will pick up.

Finished episode 2 last night and I’m digging it. I had read that Refn’s intent was to make a show where the pace slowly picks up speed, though it’s still extremely slow.

btw William Baldwin wtf

four episodes in this is....somehow deeply compelling and often hilarious? the longueurs, over the course of the very long episodes, often make it feel like...i dunno...ambient television or something. it's the kinda show where you can look at your phone or go the bathroom and not even need to bother with pausing it. feels like a genuinely novel approach to the medium.

yeah I ended up thinking this was one of the best things he's done, and also a hilarious way to piss away Amazon's money

i posted these on the Amazon thread:

I'm five episodes in now and I think it's really strong. the manner in which the five leads are all operating in vv different ways on paths of revenge for those who have been wronged is pretty interesting and the whole series being specifically from the very first scene about the violent effects of broken and/or evil men is pretty timely to say the least.

I saw someone online refer to episode 2 as basically Tarkovsky doing "Narcos" and that seems pretty otm, i mean obv not Tarkovsky-level but miles better than any of the bullshit in Narcos. Points to the show for clearly being super contemptuous of the police dept -- i love the Wolf of Wall Street style of Hart Bochner's homicide squad.

William Baldwin is insane in this. and James Urbaniak's villain in episode 5 was one of the most despicable creations I've seen in a long time. Miles Teller makes for a better blank slate than Ryan Gosling.

― omar little, Thursday, June 27, 2019 12:05 PM (three months ago) bookmarkflaglink

I finished Too Old To Die Young, which for all its promotion may as well have not even existed. I’m still marinating a bit on its themes but as a show that is at least partially devoted to the fascism of the police and features one character whose purpose seems to be visiting unholy vengeance upon men who hurt women, i appreciated it. It was extremely slow in a way that might try the patience of some (I do think the pace was a legitimate artistic choice and it didn’t bother me) and it almost literally lost the plot at the end but it had some incredible moments and I’m amazed that Amazon went anywhere near it. It was very on the nose but also just refreshing in that sense, and another legitimate choice.

― omar little, Friday, August 2, 2019 1:30 PM (two months ago) bookmarkflaglink

you'd imagine it would work well as a bit of prestige for Amazon, too. I recognize that any show being touted as "groundbreaking" needs to prove it, and yet i think it really did some interesting shit. i'm not really a Refn apologist per se but this was the type of programming i would like to see more of on streaming, which should have more room for such experimentation.

I suspect the content was too much for the corporate suits. I mean the extreme anti-cop stuff and the sexual content, i can see some cowards in the board room insisting that they completely ignore its existence. I'm sure they were perfectly cool w/the violence.

― omar little, Friday, August 2, 2019 3:40 PM (two months ago) bookmarkflaglink

i think episodes 5 & 8 were very much peak Refn. i *almost* want to call 5 a masterpiece. it really goes some places.

― omar little, Tuesday, August 6, 2019 1:29 PM (one month ago) bookmarkflaglink

thanks for posting that. I can't really find any good writing about this online...though I did manage to spoil a few things for myself.

I’ve watched 5 of these today in a row and I’m not sure it’s good for my mental state, but wow, this is something.

I’m surprised this came and went without almost any notice at all, this is definitely Twin Peaks S3 level “auteur given the keys to the car” bold and uncompromising. And good. I think. Still a lot to go and I haven’t fully digested, but it’s utterly hypnotic.

Thanks ilx, did not know this existed but it seems very good

I mean same, I remember seeing tepid reviews for it months ago (but I think those were mostly based on two episodes from the middle of the season released as stand-alones for festival stuff) and that kept me off of it. Seeing this thread today and noticing ilxors whose taste I appreciate saying good things is what made me check it out.

Got mixed feelings on Refn but this seems like an achievement of some kind. Only halfway through though.

the scene at the very end of episode 4, i think, in the diner, with teller and and hawkes...i can't remember how it goes but it's something like "you got time?" long pause..."no i got nowhere to be"...long pause..."I got time too" and then loooong pause before ending credits. it made me laugh out loud. I think the slowness probably reads as pretentious to most but it really feels like it's doing something interesting with tension and release--a kind of slack-jawed dread-horror at things...the constant apocalypticism on the radio...end of empire type stuff.

something about the light and space and emptiness of LA and the southwest is captured in a way that perhaps only a european aesthete could capture, but it rings true to me.

There’s pitch black absurdist comedy underlying a lot of this, yeah. Easily missed.

I’m really fascinated by the pacing of this thing. I think episode two would bolt most people straight out. Read up thread that Refn intentionally built it in a way to pick up steam as it progressed, but have to think that one episode might’ve shed half the audience who would’ve been into this as a whole.

I loved the scene with the 17 yr old in the bar outside of her mother’s memorial. The bleeding shift in perspective and focus. One of the things that’s so impressive about this is the consistent aesthetic hold maintained throughout.

holy smokes that car chase in ep 5

i’d love to see the script for this just to see how much Refn is fucking with it.

this show leads you to have thoughts like "miles teller is good at standing still"

I paused this for a bathroom break and came back and unpaused it and thought my connection froze up, but nope, just people standing real still in silence.

There really aren’t too many good pieces on this. Most of the reviews I’ve read have been snarky negative pieces from sub-A.V. club types who don’t seem willing to engage with it on its own terms; lots of “LOL nothing happens, style over substance” opinions which I guess just tells me even more than before the very specific pace at which streaming-era TV is supposed to move allows no room for negotiation and that when a show arrives with some actual fervent opinions about America and violence they don’t even register (not that this hasn’t always been somewhat the case with film and TV, cf ppl taking Starship Troopers at face value etc etc). Anyway this is a very admirable bit of filmmaking, imperfect as it is.

So this kinda crapped out in the end. I don’t know. I feel like if it was cut slightly differently it would’ve worked beautifully as a self contained thing. As it is it feels like “Just wait for Season 2!”

Still gotta watch 8-10, but won’t be able to until later next week. Very curious how it’s gonna end.

I am so down for this

https://www.vulture.com/2019/10/nicolas-winding-refn-brings-maniac-cop-series-to-hbo.html

Aw shit, yeah. That is perfect material for him.

don’t sleep on John Hyams being involved (Universal Soldier films Regeneration and Day of Reckoning)

Are they... actually good?

oh yes

yep

First episode was riveting. The second took me several tries to get through; but I'm glad I stuck with it, because it starts to get really good immediately after that. I'm six episodes in now, and really digging the pacing.

There was a time when I thought it would be kind of cool if Jesus's and Martin's stories turned out to have zero interaction after the first episode. I like that the show has the confidence to stop following important characters entirely for several episodes at a time, where a conventional television drama would be checking in with them regularly to remind the audience exactly how many balls are in the air. And then, because the show's not constantly dangling the prospect of converging storylines in front of my face, it's incredibly arresting when something happens like ***!!!WARNING!!! MAJOR EP. 5 & 6 SPOILERS AHEAD* ** *** **** ***** ****** ********* Yaritza meeting Janey at the house party ******* ********END SPOILERS***

I get why people would want to compare it with Twin Peaks -- there is a family resemblance in some of the jarring tonal shifts -- but Refn (and Brubaker, I guess?) have none of Lynch's interest in populating the world with dream symbols. (I had this thought during the aforementioned house party sequence, when a shot tracking down a hallway with a statue posed at the far end reminded me of Agent Cooper's exploring the Black Lodge in the finale; and I thought of all the associations and the mystique which the series had built, up to that point, around both the name and the image of that place.)

So this kinda crapped out in the end. I don’t know. I feel like if it was cut slightly differently it would’ve worked beautifully as a self contained thing. As it is it feels like “Just wait for Season 2!”

― circa1916, Saturday, October 12, 2019 4:23 AM (six months ago) bookmarkflaglink

there will be no season 2; amazon announced as much a while back. the end is the end.

which is probably good but also madly infuriating to many, i'm sure. i suppose if you view it not as martin's or jesus's story, but as yaritza's - which i think it definitely is - the ending makes somewhat more sense, because you know based on her final scenes that she's probably going to take over the cartel and repurpose it for her own priestessly purposes.

started rewatching it recently, and, well, it rules

been in a john hawkes mood having just watched small town crime and started this. finished ep 3 last night. skipped some spoilery stuff above, but the "good at standing still" has me chuckling in agreement. i couldn't decide if miles was super wooden or maybe the most sinister guy ever. leaning hard on sinister now. plus the spitting. really enjoying the pacing, the colors, everything really. and billy baldwin. hoo boy. his introductory scene. one recap i read called it a "vocal tic." it's surely straight up coke drip for days. doesn't unnerve miles at all of course.

in ep 3 the lady fell asleep watching night tide so i went "hey! night tide!" cuz i'd watched and loved it within the last year. i looked at the imdb trivia for it and here's this bit:

"The film's original negative is owned by Nicolas Winding Refn."

I'm taking the plunge now, three episodes in. It's really beautiful and for as many scenes that I think go on a bit too long I think it's amazingly well controlled to create an atmosphere. I wonder how the actors were directed to have the right length of pauses and stillness because I doubt that was all in the script. There's been brief moments where things look similar to cgi, but I think it's something about the cameras.

That guy asking Teller to take a picture for his daughter and then doing that really nice smile was funny. Jena Malone has an anime face (in a good way).

Finished it.

I've never felt myself sink into slow extended scenes quite like this, it didn't always work for me but it mostly did. So many immersive beautiful scenes.

Even the idea of further seasons (how many were planned?) is pretty daunting but I'm sad we aren't getting more. I'd like to know how much further that supernatural stuff with the purple angels would have went. I wasn't sure the mexican couple would have carried further episodes that well, a few of their scenes are the ones that tested my patience the most but the one where he's watching her while hiding half his body was great. Seems like of all the lead characters he is the biggest monster.

Mona Lisa has nothing on Teller's almost smile.

More Jena Malone in everything.

Also: so many scenes resemble the guys staring and drinking milk in A Clockwork Orange, even the music

There should’ve never been a Season 2, really no reason to continue. Statement made.

Despite Bezos money, still kinda amazed he got the “no notes” reign he did. Closest you’ll get to Tarkovsky in the TV format.

There's way to tell how similar or different it would have been. I think it was going in the direction of Jena Malone vs Cristina Rodlo but increasing supernatural elements but who know?

I meant there's no way to tell

jeez yea this was amazingly realized and kindof capital-A Art imo

teller being good at standing still is otm, i could just imagine refn's direction to every actor, camera operator, etc of slooower

felt like a response or antidote to fast-cutting modern superhero or action stuff idk it just works (or did for me) once you feel it out and let it wash over you

looks like he has a new show for netflix coming out in few months

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKM5FV_aGt0

I watched this show while struggling with sleep issues during international travel and it was kind of magical. I'm afraid I won't like it as much if watch it again.

Agree with the pace being an antidote to typical fast-cutting VFX-laden wank. It felt downright confrontational sometimes. Also this show is a showcase for the music of Cliff Martinez. Hard to imagine said pacing working as well with a more conventional score.

I’m still a little annoyed by the mainstream critical response to this. I think there are filmmakers (or musicians) whose striving for art is regarded with deference and awe even when unsuccessful, and those whose most accomplished works (such as this one by Refn) are regarded with relative derision.

Teller’s blank slate deadpan look is used really well here and his faintly bemused silent responses to a lot of the insanity are very, very funny. The show is both unremittingly bleak and hilarious.

Honestly I’d been starting to find myself really exhausted by the fast paced montage heavy Vince Gilligan-type shows and this really cleansed the palate. It also actually made me realize that with feel-bad television shows, it’s not so much the content that bums me out as much as it is it is the constant push to stress of you with out with a whiplash editing combined with swift narrative pacing, like you’re riding some really terrible drug trip. I like being forced to slow down.

looks like he has a new show for netflix coming out in few months

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKM5FV_aGt0

― johnny crunch, Thursday, 6 October 2022 6:36 PM (three months ago) bookmarkflaglink

out now

almost finished TOTDY, but already planning a rewatch.

wish these things were not tied to streaming giants, some premier exclusives like Suspiria were released separately to own.

I'll also binge CC as I am not planning to keep Netflix for more than a month or two post GO, but would buy the BR in a heartbeat just to savour in my own time.

Oh wow, didn't know that was coming.

Love TOTDY, sign me UP.

From that trailer, sounds like he’s got Cliff Martinez scoring again.

This is so good 4 episodes in. Digging it much more than TOTDY. I think the Euro vibe and the return of a lot of familiar players from the Pusher days help it along. Still slow, still ott but almost a more...refined Refn this time around?

I’m loving it too, the lighting and colors

Subtitles super distracting in Copenhagen Cowboy. They keep saying “(English)” for bits that are clearly not in English.

I watched with Spanish subs. Was great though

(SPOILER)

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I wish they'd wrapped things up.

I binged this yesterday instead of doing anything else I needed to do. It’s very visually compelling (I read he’s color blind and can’t see mid colors so that’s why he likes high contrast?) although the flashing lights effect got kind of old.

I watched the the BTS thing afterwards and was really surprised by how many of the actors were “street cast”, based on their look, and not actually actors at all. They were all amazing, especially Mr Chiang and Nicklas. Also NWR saying “I’m very superstitious. I know some extraterrestrials and I talked to them before I started working on this project” WTF?!?!

I also watched this with English voice dubbing and thought it was one of the best dubs I’ve heard (the accents were a weird choice - lots of British).

The ending suuuuuucked. My understanding is there’s no second season, so it was very frustrating to have no resolution, let alone explanation for who/what tf Miu was.

Ugh I meant to say I binged COPENHAGEN COWBOY not TOTDY

My understanding is there’s no second season, so it was very frustrating to have no resolution

That's disappointing. I am not the kind of person who demands a neat ending, but it would be nice to have and ending, even if oblique.

Definitely glad I watched CC, loved that he made the slow pacing work, loved the visuals. However the setup for the second season wasn't super inspiring, I'm not sure he knew where he wanted to go with it. I'm fine with one season.