love* in the time of plague (and by love* i mean brexit* and other dreary matters of uk politics)

Apologies for drunky incomprehensibility last night and apologies for not leaping to EMil's defence at 5 to 7 in the evening in the middle of a Wolves match in the pub.

Tbh I think the hated tankies of UK Pol have always been gently tolerant of Ed except when he's printing racist coffee mugs or advocating being a snitch

I hate "the economy" because it's just shorthand for the interests of the exploited class but on the other hand the economy's really fucked lads, there's gonna be unmanageable millions unemployed by next summer

"exploiter class" fuck you Tory spellcheck

We were also watching the Wolves match, fears the little cat is a Wolves fan, remains to be seen, alas. Tbftlj, I think he might have a bit more to worry about atm than defending Ed’s honour.

People told themselves he didn't really want the job.

He doesn't, btw.

But speculation ob Boris leaving itt is fundamentally different from US folks speculating on Trump leaving because no one here is under the illusion that what would replace Boris would be any better.

Yeah I'm still a bit pished probably half price Tanqueray ffs we've always been pretty gentle on Ed tho, the reluctant melt

"People told themselves he didn't really want the job.

He doesn't, btw."

And yet..

I always hear what a nice guy Ed iszzz...anyone who serves or aligns themselves with the right-wing faction of the PLP is a cunt, end of story!

Yeah Alphie, it doesn't influence anything, it's just an interesting psychological quirk.

Between the Tory rebel alliance and the democratic avengers it’s really refreshing to finally have some adults in the room

Just need eu super girl and hufflepuffs4eugenics to get in on the act and grown up politics is back baby

"But speculation ob Boris leaving itt is fundamentally different from US folks speculating on Trump leaving because no one here is under the illusion that what would replace Boris would be any better."

I recall seeing ppl groaning at Mike Pence as president. Some people were like, if not Pence who?

I think the differences lie in Johnson actually having had covid. However a lot of the ppl making this speculation don't want to admit how bad things could get, that one trick -- Johnson's removal somehow -- could throw off the Tories from their plans for their precious liberal democracy.

xp

Specifically limited my post to "itt" for these reasons :)

Sorry, yes.

Just need eu super girl and hufflepuffs4eugenics to get in on the act and grown up politics is back baby

speaking of which, guess who's baaaaaack

Excited to begin my new role: Director of Partners for a New Economy.

Our broken economic system needs to change, to make it serve people and our planet. Looking forward to working with brilliant people and organisations on this mission. https://t.co/KCegBD5FvE #BuildBackBetter pic.twitter.com/fBcuyJ8vnk

— Jo Swinson (@joswinson) September 14, 2020

i encourage each and every one of you to look at this organisation's website and tell me one actual deliverable plan they have to stop us all burning or boiling alive

also, if i was writing a satirical dystopian novel about how finance is actively enabling the strangling of the planet under the guise of woke capitalism i'd think calling a green finance organisation 'PANE' was a bit on-the-nose

What's their policy on squirrels?

There's a Persil advert at the moment hectoring you to save the planet lol how I haven't destroyed my TV yet god only knows

*piece of paper flutters off, revealing the last word is actually "Europe"*

"one actual deliverable plan they have to stop us all burning or boiling alive" is a high bar, in fairness.

The real pisser is I thought it had become indisputable amongst the membership that Ed was on the wrong side of the argument on austerity in 2015 and yet all the signs are Starmer is directing the party in a fiscally conservative direction and perhaps doing the same thing again might have a different result this time, but it doesn't make it right. And all these people with short memories having a jizz-fest cos he mugged off Boris in a one-off punch and Judy show. I just despair.

Some people just like politicians I guess. I can't stand about 95% of them.

"one actual deliverable plan they have to stop us all burning or boiling alive" is a high bar, in fairness.

well, yeah

seems kinda telling that their definition of 'new economy' seems to be about getting rich people to spend their wealth in slightly different places and somehow that will avert the end of the world

We are so doomed I can't think about it too much I'm sorry kids

I have always liked Ed Miliband.

I saw him in March 2015 at an event in Bermondsey and was amazed at how good he was.

Things would be much better if he had become PM.

I was glad to see him doing well again last night.

I once saw him sing 'Waterloo' at a karaoke event. He sang very badly - no sense of being in tune at all.

I’ve just seen that Micko Westmoreland (aka Jack Fairy in Velvet Goldmine) used to give Ed Miliband guitar lessons.

I voted for him in 2015 and was howling at the moon on election night. But I still doubt we'd be in that much of a better place had he won.

FBPEers wouldn't exist so that would be something

I don't think he sided with the right of the party, more he was unable to avoid being dominated by them, same result obviously.

FBPEers would still be there and still be full of shit though and might just have bloomed a bit later into their post 2016 form!

There might still have been EU referendum pressure from an opposition Tory party and if they were tanking in the polls with UKip riding high, brexit still might have happened.

With a unpopular Labour in power and the same fucking clowns running the Remain campaign. LEAVE might have won by a bigger margin!

they would have been a popular Labour government going around the red wall dropping huge monoliths on the immigrants

And taking away disabled ppls morability access just to show they are the party of fiscal responsibility

Motability.

compulsory Sure Starts for everybody under 25

Lol!

Someone commented t'other day that Keith would probably consider Sure Start a bit too Old Labour.

i worked for a Sure Start, really feels like i was at the heart of Blairite darkness tbh

The point being he is a bit to the right of Blair!

The only other conceivable reason for playing down the differences between Miliband and the Labour left would be if one genuinely believed that they didn’t exist, and I really don’t want to believe that – even in these disorientating times – comrades are that stupid. Going back to the pre-Corbyn era of a parliamentary left small, fragmented and reduced to begging for minor concessions from non-socialists would represent the dying whimper of the Corbynite movement and everything it fought for.

When these FBPEers angrily denounce Cameron as the sole cause of Brexit I don't buy it. The forces of Brexit were there and both parties were playing with fire and fuelling populist bigotry. Some other worthless fucker would have let the djinn out of the bottle sooner or later.

tbh I say much the same about Thatcherism but the referendum and its wording were a product of a very specific set of issues within the Tory Party

The entire country: "we can't get a test"
Priti Patel: "yes you can shut up"

I agree with the view that Miliband as PM would have meant none of the FBPE garbage, and I think that's a great point in favour of that alternate timeline.

I think that for some of us, before JC the sense of real political space was more limited - I literally could no longer even imagine a leader to the left of Ed M. He seemed as good as we could possibly get, and he was generally assailed for being a dangerous socialist. From this POV it was quite logical to support him.

I suppose different judgments can be made about now.

I agree that Thatcherism wasn't the product of one person but a much bigger process.

The EU ref was a part of the endless Tory factional game and or the bastards as Major called them, but my point is in opposition they would have been putting immense pressure on Labour for it to happen.

There still could still could have been a get the EU ref done election with Labour on the losing side. But as someone who is now gone once said to me : if Ifs and (sic) Ans were pots and pans!

One of the things that makes the alternate history trickier is the question of who'd have succeeded Cameron? Without the successful Leave campaign, Boris would still be a clown - Gove might be the natural successor from the Cameron camp (Gideon might not follow Cameron but he'd also have got a kicking for austerity) but there'd be a contingent that would consider the whole cuddlier Tories a failed endeavour, and they might get a monster through - it might still be May! Jesus, imagine 5 years of the Tories kicking the shit out of each other?

Miliband Labour would have been put under intense scrutiny by our lol Free Press and the BBC. That dogwhistle attack by the Sun would have just been a warm up.

Charlie Elphicke's going to jail, doo-dah, doo dah!

"an" = achaic word for "if"

An it harm none, do what ye will

so this person who is now gone (bcz also archaic?) was right not wrong

thanks for that Mark - I was doing them a disservice!

Osborne was always meant to be Cameron’s successor, Gove wasn’t a Cameronite, he was the price of satiating Murdoch.