Forum Infected With Left Wing Brain Worms - What To Do?

I know the greens are bad people but theres no guarantee that that 4% would go to Labour if they disappeared. I know this, because the greens are bad people

― anvil, Saturday, 6 June 2020 19:59 (thirty-six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

you wanna go let's fuckin go

hitler

obviously I speak as a confirmed left-winger. left-wing brain worms are MUCH more specific and infinitely less damaging than right-wing ones, but they obfuscate the Cause my friends

now if you'll excuse me I have a gold top hat to dust

R.I.P. lee rigby

I forgot to capitalize Green

obviously voting Green at the last election was fairly unhelpful unless you live in central Brighton but for people to be supporting them now when Labour have lurched rightward...like, either you want to have your cake and eat it too or there's some deeper-seeded 'purity test' that Green supporters are failing. whereas for the most part they're principled and decent people

tldr - this is about the internecine stupidity of the left

i have more sympathy with the 'abolish cops' crew than the ukpol purity codger bitchparty but here is an excellent post from less than an hour ago demonstrating how to hate the institutional violence of the police in a constructive way & it is the level of discourse i expect & demand

imo the problem with ‘abolish all cops’ as a rhetorical tool is that a bunch of the interim steps you’d likely want to take (cutting police budgets, investing in harm reduction, better mental health resources, decriminalisation of drugs, ADR, a focus on mediation and restitution over incarceration, etc) stand alone as excellent policies without asking anyone to buy into the extremely contentious end goal of removing the whole judicial system. Sticking them under an absolutist banner the majority of people, at present, don’t take seriously, obscures them. You can build a framework that makes ‘abolishing the police’ more tangible without it.

― ShariVari, Saturday, 6 June 2020 20:07 (fifty-one minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

To answer the question more specifically the Greens are a mixture of different types of people including conservatives and otherwise non-political people. If the Greens didn't exist they would go in multiple directions, not just Labour - therefore they're not necessarily taking votes away from Labour disproportionately

As to the rest of the post it was light hearted frivolity designed to tease out any snowflakes rather than to be taken to heart

they have p socialist policy ideas for a party that appeals to 'conservatives'

another left-wing brainworm: brexit is completely, 100% fine. maybe even a good idea. the EU is a neoliberal institution that is falling apart anyway after all

the reason it's a brainworm is that the hard-right government in charge of brexit is turning us into a US client state and decimating our rights and environmental protections. sure there's little we can do about it now but even raising the point that brexit is bad will tar one with the FBPE brush. to which i say: cockwombles, the lot of u

Geopolitical variations on ‘the enemy of my enemy is my friend’.

I think for the thread to work we'll need to use specific examples rather than generalizations?

Thats what makes the RW thread good, its dealing with individual cases and how to approach them.

the strange cross section of far right nutjobs and hippie spiritualists agreeing on 5G antivaxx conspiracy theories is an interesting one. not sure if it's in the right place itt

agree with imago about Brexit. any left wing argument for Brexit as a positive force for devolution and decentralisation discounts the fact it leaves UK wide open for public services and the food industry to be picked over by whichever private firm is willing to pay for it. in a perfect world, there would be an argument for it, but the libertarian fuckheads pulling those strings aren't going to let that one slide

please add "internecine UK politics thread spinoff drama" to thread title

obviously this is a drunken late-night meta-thread that hopefully won't reach 700 posts by noon on tuesday but if it's specific example you want, i've already provided a couple.

and ftr this isn't a thread where i call out berniebros for not planning on voting biden. not voting biden is a thoroughly coherent position and a trump second term is a legitimate accelerationist gambit (albeit a flawed one)

this is more a thread for left-wingers slowly being radicalised into twats and turning on their own

a good example that i have referred to extensively before is the ongoing demonisation and out-of-context quoting of angela rayner, deputy labour leader and voter on the 'correct' (i.e. punching-up) side of more or less every bill brought before parliament. a couple of rhetorical bum notes have been amplified into 'clearly a bad person, a melt and maybe a racist, ok karen' etc etc

shall we see what she's up to

I am volunteering at @OldhamAngels tonight and l want to thank @ahageog @chs_bronz_dofe @chsupdates for the kind donations of sleeping bags they will be put to use immediately, we really appreciate the support, big thanks 👍 pic.twitter.com/q7wjd6YLxA

— 🌈 Angela Rayner 🌈 (@AngelaRayner) June 6, 2020

another left-wing brainworm: brexit is completely, 100% fine. maybe even a good idea. the EU is a neoliberal institution that is falling apart anyway after all

Brexit is bad and the EU is a neoliberal institution that is falling apart. How d'ye like them apples?

i mean i kind of agree

how did she vote on the welfare act again louis? I know it doesn't affect you, but surely you've got enough imago-ination to work out that people who suffered the consequences of the welfare act don't see her as left-wing or a friend, despite the usual pol PR and lip service that often impresses you so much.

which one of these was that then

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/25429/angela_rayner/ashton-under-lyne/divisions?policy=6670

yep she is one of the 184 who abstained on the vote you fucking muppet, I don't even need to check.

politics is just a game to you and fuck this whole thread you clueless fucking hooray, get back to your golf course you spoilt prick!

oh this one

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/these-are-the-184-labour-mps-who-didn-t-vote-against-the-tories-welfare-bill-10404831.html

we all know what happened next: corbyn took over and some mps, including many of those hated 184 (who abstained along with the whip), bought into it

Harriet Harman, the interim leader, had urged Labour MPs to send a message to the electorate that they were listening to concerns over welfare payments by abstaining on the welfare bill after voting for an amendment that set out the party’s objections to the bill.

as ever, the truth is more complicated. sure, all of them should have voted against it rather than for a poxy amendment, but they were losing in any case

This is just the British politics thread I think.

calzino idk at which point you morphed from beloved sprayer of rhetoric to unavoidable foghorn but it's the fact i'm on your fucking side that galls the most

calz has already called imago a posho we just need Alfie to embed a tweet or three and we’ll have all the flavors

This was always going to end in tears.

imago all love and respect but yelling at people that you’re on their side is a head-scratcher at the best of times

we just need a world where politicians don't punch down, because until that happens, the left will punch itself in the face over and over and over again

So until then?

i guess we punch each other

That’s the spirit

well if we just haven't suffered enough misery in the last 6 months this fucking simpering poltroon comes along with this thread of ill-informed concern trolling bullshit. seriously go fuck yourself dickhead

calz in the spirit of not-punching i know v well that your own circumstances have been ground down and attacked at every turn by the selfish evil of neoliberals and corporatist political parties and i entirely share your anguish that britain does not have better, either in actuality or in store, but we are all fighting this impossible enemy and a bit less of the 'die soon keir you melt cunt' and a bit more of the 'how do we pressure labour to retain corbynist policy goals, perhaps by starting a splinter group, any ideas' would be constructive if not cathartic

Well don't you try expressing those aims on the uk politics thread rather than starting worthless dead end threads like this that only serve to antagonise me when I'm pissed? For someone who has had such an expensive education you are quite thick.

Fucking state of this thread.

I, for one, am flabbergasted that it's already come to this.

I repeatedly ask what the plan is! At the moment there doesn't seem to be one

If only you had all revived the appropriate quarantine thread:

Post here when you want to shit on someone passive aggressively until they see it and start a fight with you ITT

Who seriously gives a damn? What is with these poxy threads where people take pre-existing beefs to pontificate at length about stuff that isn’t a problem? Anvil took a swipe at the greens, who cares? And once again, why is anyone angry at politics on ilx being tasked with finding immediate solutions to the problem? This is absolute nonsense and a big part of the reason why I just post in ukpol, because it’s better the devil you know and at least people are largely on the same page there.

I guess deep down I think that the hard-left and the centre-left (Overton window be damned; I'd be regarded as hard-left by most British people but I'll gladly stake a claim to the centre-left) need to somehow overlook their differences and work together to have even a chance of defeating the bastards. I'm starting this fight as a way to confront what divides us and hopefully heal. An olive-branch disguised as a punch. idk

obviously deep down i do like everyone who's lined up to punch back itt so i do feel a bit sad, 'end in tears' otm

this is probably hideously embarrassing isn't it

https://media.giphy.com/media/k7FxDbLPbsIEU1GR1j/giphy.gif

die soon keir you melt cunt

a country where corbynism passes for "hard left" needs to be put out of its misery

oh sorry I thought the thread was over but non-sockpuppet ilx user Left had yet to use the word "melt"

oh nm I see we're quoting ironically as you were

ironically i'm serious

fuck the racist capitalist piece of shit labour party forever btw

the centrist mindfulness ladies are also posting anti-vax things on nextdoor so

― towards fungal computer (harbl), Monday, December 27, 2021 9:17 AM (one hour ago)

please share some of the best of these! You have the best horrible nextdoor posters!

in case you are lucky enough not to have people in these circles,

oh, I have a handful of these ... I think I haven't hid all of them just to remind myself that they exist ... it's like some social media version of making sure the batteries in my smoke detectors work. I don't want the sense of false complacency that everyone "on my side" is a total comrade or is not batshit crazy or a bigot.

this situation has just changed their brain worm expression, so to speak.

― towards fungal computer (harbl), Monday, December 27, 2021 9:49 AM (forty-three minutes ago)

that's a good way to put it! I now am thinking about the previous brain worm expression of some of these people --

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory

yes i noticed the 'way of the bern' subreddit was all anti vax shit

― global tetrahedron, Monday, December 27, 2021 5:12 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

Last time I was on Reddit there were multiple subreddits with significant followings in the grips on this shit. /r/PoliticalRevolution was a big one among Reddit 'leftists' for awhile -- I was banned for asking why the sole active mod was repeating right wing smears of Mueller (at the time I phrased it somewhat more respectfully).

And not to stir the pot but gotta lol at the folks here gatekeeping Corbyn as not a true leftist. Where do these people live? Or are there actual tankies here?

Actually I recently got into a Twitter flame war about 'leftists' defending Let's Go Brandon. It's not just Reddit and the Zuckerverse, but I do think Reddit is basically made for manipulation of discourse by moneyed interests, of course their manufactured userbase is going to do their best to coopt any realistic leftward movement.

And not to stir the pot but gotta lol at the folks here gatekeeping Corbyn as not a true leftist. Where do these people live? Or are there actual tankies here?

What does "defending" Let's Go Brandon mean? Thinking it's funny?

It is funny, just like Tea Party boomer nicknames for Obama were funny, they're so stupid and angry. Anyway, saying mean shit about Joe Biden, who cares?

Liberal versions like Drumpf were not as funny because they weren't dumb and angry enough, the people doing that actually seemed to think it was part of the #resistance.

“let’s go brandon” is not funny and has ruined saying “fuck joe biden” for me forever tbh

what is "let's go brandon"? ... or should I remain ignorant of this for the sake of my sanity?

*yeah I know I could google it, I am interested in ilxors' interpretation of it

it is really just maga code-language for “fuck joe biden” afaik

it’s so goddamn stupid

I would just blow it off but I have heard groups of belligerent looking white guys here in ATL chanting it, in this mostly black city. Similar feels as when I was in LDN early last year and was a bit shocked to see a gang of similar belligerent wypipo chanting some hooligan nonsense (I assume?) while marching through a tube station -- maybe Paddington? Isn't that a pretty big one?

ive heard it from wrestling crowds and it really ruins the show, gotta say

xpost

However

Fucking state of this thread.

― gyac, Saturday, 6 June 2020 23:00 (one year ago) link
― mardheamac (gyac), Monday, December 27, 2021 7:26 PM

Point taken, and no personal jabs intended.

I would just blow it off but I have heard groups of belligerent looking white guys here in ATL chanting it, in this mostly black city. Similar feels as when I was in LDN early last year and was a bit shocked to see a gang of similar belligerent wypipo chanting some hooligan nonsense (I assume?) while marching through a tube station -- maybe Paddington? Isn't that a pretty big one?

There was a game on probably.

idk some of these dudes on social media (like they are almost entirely 99% cis white males) still seem to have this nerdphobia from childhood ... like informed by Lord of the Flies, where there is an aversion to being Piggy or Piggy-adjacent. So, aligning with MAGA-bros feels okay, because they are very un-Piggy. ... The dudes I know personally that have this affliction tend to either work in hospitality or have tech jobs.

like, if you want to be un-Piggy-like, go out and become a plumber or work construction or do actual boots-on-the-ground activism for what you believe in

Iirc some dude named Brandon won a NASCAR race, the crowd was chanting Fuck Joe Biden and a reporter was interviewing the guy thinking they were saying Let’s Go Brandon. So yeah it was kinda chuckle worthy on day 1 but as usual conservatives, including GOP congressmen, decided to make it their entire identity for the next four months

My friend who is not vaxxed says she might take the Novavax vaccine that's in development since it's not mRNA based. This is not the first time I've heard that line of reasoning but it's like ... have you noticed that the mRNA vaccines are working pretty well? Sigh

Mom: “no politics at Christmas this year”

Me: “no problem, I’ll just bring gifts” pic.twitter.com/JzOwg8wqcu

— Ryan James Girdusky (@RyanGirdusky) December 25, 2021

xp

like, if you want to be un-Piggy-like, go out and become a plumber or work construction or do actual boots-on-the-ground activism for what you believe in

― sarahell, Monday, December 27, 2021 8:13 PM

Uh yeah all power to the people but I've recently been doing painting work and can confirm that it sucks, and I still feel like Piggy.

There is DEFINITELY a strong bullying component to the whole online bro culture tho.

Thing is, we live in organized societies, and we are adults ... Piggy is okay here. It's totally cool to be Piggy.

I would just blow it off but I have heard groups of belligerent looking white guys here in ATL chanting it, in this mostly black city.

Joe Biden's white (and racist), though? Seems like some white-on-white crime.

The responses to stupid and angry are, of course, equally stupid, which from what I've seen is where "social media leftists" are amused

With these economic numbers, I gotta say it, too. #ThankYouBrandon!

— George Takei (@GeorgeTakei) November 5, 2021

we get it you think it’s cool and funny

I have no idea what being piggy or un-piggy means?

I just ate too much Chex mix, I'm piggy

Character Analysis Piggy
Piggy is the intellectual with poor eyesight, a weight problem, and asthma. He is the most physically vulnerable of all the boys, despite his greater intelligence. Piggy represents the rational world. By frequently quoting his aunt, he also provides the only female voice.

Piggy's intellect benefits the group only through Ralph; he acts as Ralph's advisor. He cannot be the leader himself because he lacks leadership qualities and has no rapport with the other boys. Piggy also relies too heavily on the power of social convention. He believes that holding the conch gives him the right to be heard. He believes that upholding social conventions get results.

there is also my unwritten thesis about how in contemporary society, we are either Piggy or Frankies (i.e. Frankie Teardrop) and all rotting in hell

If we only had a royal family in amerka to instill and maintain a moral center and social rectitude

There might be something to the Piggy hostility but it's hard to chalk up to nerdphobia - I will venture that less than 10 Jacobin subscribers were Prom King or Queen, American leftists are nerdy as hell - or lol 'aligning with MAGA' rather than an entirely natural socialist hostility to the idea that 'upholding social conventions get results.' American norms and social conventions are reactionary and respecting them gets us nowhere but closer to the apocalypse.

The only thing the British have gotten right in the modern era is their hatred and open celebration of the death of people like Thatcher. We're still in the stage of having important people who should know better talking about Colin Powell as anything other than a war criminal and tweeting about how the GOP used to be better and they mean the Reagan-era GOP.

There really haven't been many people like Thatcher tbf (and thank the Lord for that).

American norms and social conventions are reactionary and respecting them gets us nowhere but closer to the apocalypse

Unless you meant to specify political norms and conventions, the only ideology this conforms to is pure contrarianism for its own sake.

I will venture that less than 10 Jacobin subscribers were Prom King or Queen, American leftists are nerdy as hell

Nobody hates nerds more than someone who grew up a nerd and denies they still are one.

I do know a couple of people who are at least ostentatiously left wing (one had that COR-BYN t-shirt styled like RUN-DMC and had it as her profile pic on FB for a while) but unfortunately/worryingly (one is trained as a nurse) they are both anti-vax and one even posted an Eric Clapton video, favourably, not long ago. I haven't actually spoken to them since the start of the pandemic and our FB messages well I've just avoided the whole subject other than mentioning I had covid recently (at least she didn't say I was a crisis actor and the whole thing is made up). am not really sure what to do about this.

rather than an entirely natural socialist hostility to the idea that 'upholding social conventions get results.'

the social conventions in this context are things like "not killing people just because you can get away with it" and "not only those that hunt the food get to eat it" -- it's generally code for "organized civilization" ... it isn't really socialist hostility as I read it, but an aversion to "working within the system" because not only is the system damaged, but it would entail having to learn/know/master certain technical and bureaucratic topics that most dudes raging on the internet don't have the patience for tbh

honestly, the whole thing reminds me of the nerdy dudes I hung with in high school who played D&D and X-Men RPGs -- social media is a role playing game.

But ugh, what a role

What was this thread about - as started by poster Imago?

Puzzling.

Who knows/cares, honestly

Sorry to monopolize the thread but the same guy is now on about how NYC with all its restrictions has lots of COVID right now so see, why were we listening to the so-called "authorities"? You're the only people I can complain to about this, I am NOT going to get into it with him on FB.

Remind again why you have to see it on fb

Or post about this one guy here. Defriend him, who cares

idk I feel like many of us have our own "this one guy" and commiseration can be nice?

Sure but there’s a point where you’re putting yourself through stuff voluntarily for unclear reasons and if it’s that distressing just mute or unfriend.

Boundaries etc.

Sure but there’s a point where you’re putting yourself through stuff voluntarily for unclear reasons and if it’s that distressing just mute or unfriend.

oh, for sure! it's just sometimes unclear how distressing the things ilxors complain about actually are.

the unclear family

lol