Belonging

Do you feel like you belong? To a given community (including but by no means limited to ILX), whether private or public, local or international, infinitesimal or immeasurably vast? By default, perhaps even against your will? Out of a sense of inclination and commitment, because you so desire?

If not, has this been a source of distress in your life? Of liberation? Indifference?

Are you more of a loner than not? Or the obverse?

etc.

piss off, we don't like that sort of chat here

swing and a miss for the first response hall of fame

😭

I wrote out an answer but it was a load of wank, so I deleted it, and will instead say "no, and never really have" and "you don't miss what you don't know"

proud 2 see DJP adapting effortlessly to the heralded Nu Zing Era

I'm interested in the load of wank.

The loads, even.

re: the actual topic, I cannot fathom or understand the idea of belonging to a group or community as a burden or source of distress. Belonging implies support, and support bolsters belief, and belief fuels possibility.

The wank has been deleted. I will say that I grew up in a hippy commune and the other kids thought I and my family were weird and were not shy about saying so, this has also been the situation since, though I may now possibly be too dull to be annoying in my middle age.

What I had in mind were cases where outside forces systematically reduce your identity to X or Y, contra your own sense of self.

xp

So... you mean like being Black?

I've never felt English and something of an outsider in this country - not meant in self-pity, but as my aging family die off and I drift away from old friends it's just me and my missus and the kid and I often assume English people don't like me, it probably doesn't help after a few drinks I often might start saying some very unpatriotic things or cheer when anyone scores against their national side! I have been thinking recently I might have been more of a rounded happy person if my mum had decided to stay in Ireland. The last time I ever felt any sense of belonging and community was probably when I was a kid. I used to enjoy being a weirdo when I was in my 20's and 30's but like my hair it has worn a bit thin going into my 40's!

(i had a much longer answer here, but i deleted a lot of the wank as well)

This is an interesting question and something I've really been thinking about for a long time. While I'm not sure I would go so far as to say "struggle with", it's something that has pawed at the back corners of my mind for many years. I definitely don't feel like I belong to any sort of larger community and I definitely think it leaves a sort of hole in my being. Or at least rings of support and social circles I am missing.

I'm definitely more of an introvert and I don't mind doing things on my own, though there are times when I definitely feel the sharp pang of not having a larger community to feel a part of - the sort of thing I imagine people get in a variety of ways (workout groups, casual sports teams, book clubs, religious services, service groups, etc etc).

I definitely do feel like I'm missing out by not being part of larger community, even if I don't have a way to describe what that would even look like for me.

probably should have deleted my load of wank as well!

nah, glad you shared yours. makes me feel less weird about what i did leave in.

So... you mean like being Black?

'Go back to your country' said to people whose families have been in America for generations, for example. Or assimilated Germans of Jewish descent with little to no knowledge of Jewish history and culture being suddenly told they are not German. That kind of thing.

To the school where I taught 20 years, although that's waning in retirement. The last couple of times I went in to supply, it felt different.

I know when im easy in certain companies and contexts and im also aware that this can always change and dont as a fairly longheld rule rely on thinking of relationships, my place in the contexts or any of the rest of whatever might be in scope as "belonging" so much as "this continues to work for me, for now".

'Go back to your country' said to people whose families have been in America for generations, for example.

So yes, like being Black.

I stand by my answer.

Being a born-and-raised US Citizen who has been told to go back to Africa despite being a direct descendant of slaves has never made me feel badly about being an American; it's made me hate racists. It's their problem, not mine, and I am not ceding my birthright, identity, or sense of self to assholes.

I have at times felt angst over "am I x enough for other people" but life is too short to dwell on that. You are who you are, everyone is made up of a billion different components and all of them are true and inalienable and life is too short to waste trying to curry favor with people who won't make space for you.

who has been told to go back to Africa

It absolutely boggles the mind that anyone could be so moronically hateful as to say this to an African American. I say this as an ignorant foreign observer, of course.

I'm fairly confident I will never feel I "belong" anywhere (there are reasons but they're very boring) but I wore myself out being bummed about it and now I mostly just don't give a shit. I've pared things down to a small cadre of close friends across the country I love and respect deeply, and vice versa, and as long as I stay in their good graces I can feel I'm not completely fucking up in whatever I'm doing. That's the only kind of "belonging" I understand.

Sad but true, ILX is about the only instance wherein I've come within spitting distance of feeling like i 'belonged' to a given community. And I'm sure a number of ILXors are regarding that notion with some incredulous side-eye, so.

Not a case of like being such an OUT THERE WEIRDO FREAK that I just cannot vibe with others. I've often felt generally accepted but just...out of sync. Probably an artifact of having to make due on my own for too much of my yoot (moving around constantly, not infrequently to bumfuck middle-of-nowhere locales) and then just getting stuck in that groove as my self began to properly solidify.

It's historically been a source of distress but decreasingly so as I've learned to make peace with it. Also, I accept that this is mostly my own shit. Mad props to anyone who is able to feel like they comfortably fit in, it must be sweet.

I often wonder about this because I have a tendency to attribute much of my persistent sense of alienation to being a first-generation immigrant who had no intention of leaving his country of birth at the age of seven and who was forced to reroute his experience of the world through two new languages that have since colonized my brain. Yet there is no guarantee whatsoever that I would have felt like I belong had I not left against my will – like many of you, it seems.

Life is alienating, largely because everyone suffers from some degree of Imposter Syndrome and also because you are an individual surrounded by thousands/millions of autonomous beings whose inner thoughts you can never truly know with 100% certainty.

belonging is a definitely source of distress if your inclusion feels too provisional/conditional/contested, or if you have multiple communities which are sometimes perceived as irreconcilable

In my teens, I was almost totally estranged from the world outside my room. These feelings of being an outsider gradually softened, until I reached a point in my forties where I did finally feel I "belonged". This feeling has deepened and strengthened through my fifties (I turned 59 on imago's birthday), but in a way that boosts rather than reduces my core sense of self. I probably romanticised my outsider status in my youth (I listened to a lot of OH GOD YES THIS IS ME songs), but I've been happy to trade that for well-being.

I'm not exactly sure how I've learnt how to "fit in" without pretending to be someone I'm not, but I think it must be at least in part because the world around me has become more accepting of difference.

I feel like the question underpinning this conversation is "how strong is your ego?"

You are who you are, everyone is made up of a billion different components and all of them are true and inalienable and life is too short to waste trying to curry favor with people who won't make space for you.

― Hello Nice FBI Lady (DJP), Thursday, March 4, 2021 4:10 PM (twenty-five minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

x100000000000!

I went through a MASSIVE about-face in early adulthood, from being a bullied & ostracized & misanthropic child/teen who rejected connection out of suspicion & trauma, to realizing that I really like people and I am likable and that creating webs of friendship and community comes easily for me. On just the micro level...you can always belong if you build something to belong to! Be a friend to make a friend etc etc boring but true.

xxp mike t-diva hitting hard! Yes--the world changed too :)

I feel like the question underpinning this conversation is "how strong is your ego?"

Indeed, the corollary (for me, at least) being: 'how strong should your ego be?'

Ha yes, I was about to post a counterpoint along those lines (basically, you can't expect others to make space for you if you can't make space for them)

existence is a neverending battle between feeling like you are the most important person in the universe and feeling like you are absolutely meaningless and the happiest people are those who either don't care at all about balancing those feelings or have figured out how to make them counterbalance 90% of the time

I guess the counterbalance to feeling like I never really belong is that I feel that I know myself intensely well. Although as mike t-diva's post suggests, knowing myself intensely well may be the biggest stumbling block to feeling like I belong. I certainly don't expect a given community to do the work of molding itself to suit me but I have a lot of difficulty shifting myself enough to meet that community halfway.

uh, that was an xpost, I don't know how we both managed to use the word 'counterbalance' at the exact same time

from being a bullied & ostracized & misanthropic child/teen who rejected connection out of suspicion & trauma, to realizing that I really like people and I am likable and that creating webs of friendship and community comes easily for me.

Yes, exactly this, only more gradual.

DJP's previous post featuring the word 'counterpoint' whispered it into your ear.

xp

There must be some intermediate step between realizing that I (generally) like people/am (generally) likeable and easing myself into notions of community, because that intermediate step is the one I trip on all the time.

I often read about people "identifying with" things, especially art and culture, and have to admit that this always strikes me as strange, even unfathomable on a personal level. I think perhaps there is a certain arrogance or embarrassment there in denying that anyone else could have had the same experience or feeling as me, anyway the arrogance / embarrassment seems to be hard-wired at this stage. There is also the rejection-sensitivty ADHD thing which might be the reason behind this.

Yeah, this discussion topic is way more triggering than I expected. Yeesh.

There is also the rejection-sensitivty ADHD thing which might be the reason behind this.

― Bastard Lakes (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Thursday, March 4, 2021 10:54 AM (thirty-four seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink

o ya, I always forget about the role that shit plays.

Apologies – perhaps lj was right.

belonging is a definitely source of distress if your inclusion feels too provisional/conditional/contested, or if you have multiple communities which are sometimes perceived as irreconcilable

― no (Left), Thursday, 4 March 2021 16:36 (twenty-three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

There can imo be a converse distress in belonging (in certain ways) to supports, systems and structures that are in themselves stifling, unhealthy, limiting etc

All the points raised about balance btwn self/universe otm, its not just ok to behave as if you are the most important (or one of them) person in yr particular universe, its healthy and necessary not just sometimes but most of the time. Its your universe.

There can imo be a converse distress in belonging (in certain ways) to supports, systems and structures that are in themselves stifling, unhealthy, limiting etc

This is a really good point, and speaks to my experiences living in really small, rural towns growing up. For me, I always felt those environments endlessly stifling and oppressive and couldn't wait to get out of there (even before you get to the rampant racism, homophobia and closed mindedness). That said, there was undeniably a sense of "community" that I have not seen since, in terms of people being supportive during hardships and times of grief. The small town my mom still lives in, if someone is sick or dies, there is instantly a group of people showing up to drop off meals and take care of small tasks, even from people you may not normally interact with on a daily basis. It's just what they do (of course this ignores the whole dark side of that, in where only the "right" (read: not minorities or "different" people) get such treatment) to lend a hand, for better or worse. For me, the cons vastly outweigh the pros of small town living like that, but I know people in my own family that won't leave such towns because they can't imagine losing that safety net.

I think of this mostly in terms of music. I grew up an only child (and only Jew) in a rural community up until high school. And I've definitely identified a pattern of getting into some niche music genre/community that I don't belong to, and wanting to 'prove' myself and gain access (either irl or online or both). Whether that's been metal, jazz, New Orleans brass band (most seriously and meaningfully), weirdo electronic music, dance music, etc.

I didn't really interrogate this for a long time, but I think it's pretty obviously connected to how I grew up, not having an obvious or consistent friend/family group and always having to figure that out.

Interesting thread. I have a great deal of difficulty feeling as though I belong anywhere tbh; on some days I feel tolerated and others perhaps more liked, but despite my best efforts I’m not sure such an ingrained sense of insecurity is that easy to overcome.

However, I do like to belong, to a point. In some aspects, I feel myself being an awkward person, a squeaky wheel and so on, and that’s not something that is necessarily conducive to getting along smoothly with people. I’m still trying to work that one out, but on balance it’s part of what makes me who I am. The trick is trying to curb my own inclination, or at least not being so sharp about it. I have inherited two bad tempers, and the vast majority of people really don’t deserve my bad side.

Ilx feels like my internet home, and the first one I’ve had in a long time, but I can come and go as well, and like any place I’ve invested time and some effort in, I want it to be at its best always. This sometimes manifests as being a prick about stupid threads or posts, but as per previous paragraph, I’m working on it.

It’s really strange to me how, when I came over here first, I never really spent much time with or sought out the company of other Irish people, and now several of my friends here are fellow emigrants. I guess Brexit has a way of forcing us together on that. It’s been nice, though, the sense of being understood and heard and just got.

went through a MASSIVE about-face in early adulthood, from being a bullied & ostracized & misanthropic child/teen who rejected connection out of suspicion & trauma, to realizing that I really like people and I am likable and that creating webs of friendship and community comes easily for me. On just the micro level...you can always belong if you build something to belong to! Be a friend to make a friend etc etc boring but true.

How cool! I've always wondered what that's like, because I know a few people who have had that happen, and I wished that were me. I like people and like having friends, but making friends is something that's never come very easily to me, and while I've gotten better at it over the years, it's been a gradual improvement/learning process rather than a striking change.

existence is a neverending battle between feeling like you are the most important person in the universe and feeling like you are absolutely meaningless and the happiest people are those who either don't care at all about balancing those feelings or have figured out how to make them counterbalance 90% of the time

otm

There is also the rejection-sensitivity ADHD thing which might be the reason behind this.

That's it, I'm getting evaluated for ADHD. I thought my inability to fill out paperwork or open my mail for months at a time and the fact that I stare at ilx all day instead of doing more productive things were just symptoms of the general brokenness of the world we live in, but pathological fear of rejection? I definitely have that.

Gyac: For Brexit

You read it here first

(good posts across the three introspective threads today imo)

I've never been a part of something.
After that, I'll say this.

This is a really good point, and speaks to my experiences living in really small, rural towns growing up. For me, I always felt those environments endlessly stifling and oppressive and couldn't wait to get out of there (even before you get to the rampant racism, homophobia and closed mindedness). That said, there was undeniably a sense of "community" that I have not seen since, in terms of people being supportive during hardships and times of grief. The small town my mom still lives in, if someone is sick or dies, there is instantly a group of people showing up to drop off meals and take care of small tasks, even from people you may not normally interact with on a daily basis.

HARD SAME, and this is a very interesting topic to me. In my organizing I think about "church ladies" ALL THE TIME because ime no one gets things done like church ladies! There's a lot to think about w/r/t re-creating community outside of faith traditions--to some extent faith communities have a big advantage because the participants are pre-aligned and self-selecting into the group. I also see it with, for inst, my block association, where people are physically close but not always aligned! (There are some 40-year feuds happening over back fences, ijs.)

I'm sure there's research on this but also--hardening the in-group against the out-group is a time-tested and unfortunately extremely effective tactic for building allegiance. It's harder to build a permissive, soft-boundaried in-group that doesn't rely on a sense of persecution or villification.

Lily Dale at 5:42 4 Mar 21

There is also the rejection-sensitivity ADHD thing which might be the reason behind this.
That's it, I'm getting evaluated for ADHD. I thought my inability to fill out paperwork or open my mail for months at a time and the fact that I stare at ilx all day instead of doing more productive things were just symptoms of the general brokenness of the world we live in, but pathological fear of rejection? I definitely have that.

xp That is to say...some of the things that can make groups "strong" in certain ways might turn out to be overall cons instead of pros.

me too re: not wanting to be a part of the community one finds oneself in, but needing community all the same. i deal with feeling contempt for and suspicion of the people around me (in utah) every day. they're all republicans! they're like 50 percent mormon! on the other hand, the more i strengthen relationships with the people i do care about (my boyfriend, by loving him, and a few friends on facebook by uhhh liking their posts i guess, maybe sending messages from time to time), and also tend to my needs and love myself, the more my hackles soften into detached, bemused bewilderment at the conservative way of life these people slot into.

xp i very much relate to this too:

It's the fucking worst, forming social bonds with people feels like physical pain and I have to drink to suppress the urge to escape, only I am a non drinker now so will just never meet people again I guess?

I largely feel that adulthood has been a slow, unwinding process of discovering that I am not an introvert after all, I just couldn't put myself in the extrovert environment I wanted

yeah.. most people are horrifying imo. but like i absolutely need people in my life as much as possible. they just need to not be horrifying! or like under 50% horrifying?

It's the fucking worst, forming social bonds with people feels like physical pain

I just have a horror of disappointing people. The absolute worst thing someone can say to me is "I always wanted to be friends with you because you seem cool," because I instantly think, "Oh God, they think I'm cool but they don't know me, there's nowhere to go from here but down, I can only disappoint them, best to avoid them forever."

I guess I don't feel a strong sense of belonging anywhere, but throughout my life I have had flashes of it like the chorus of Fast Car, and I value those moments greatly and treasure them in my memory.

in primary school I never really fitted in because I was a rare lad who didn't enjoy football at all and I didn't really *get* things that were big like WWF and Power Rangers. And in high school I was actively ostracized - I was a massive geek, total academic overachiever, but also I was secure in my identity enough to be openly gay for most of it. My hometown is a very insular community, a place where people seem to know everyone and everyone's business, but I didn't care because I knew I didn't fit in and I knew I wasn't planning to stay long at all. I had a group of pals in high school but it wasn't a natural fit - we sat together at lunch because we didn't feel welcome to sit with anyone else. I didn't do myself any favours by being defensive to the point of antagonism but if you're going to be this fabulous in a west of Scotland high school you need to be tough in specific way. At my high school leavers dance one of the more popular guys came up to me and asked why I acted like I was above it all and better than everyone and it was a revelation because it was absolutely not how I had experienced it: six years of being called a poof, why would I feel welcome around these people?

I started uni and it was completely different. I don't think I changed the way I was, it wasn't like when Lisa Simpson goes to the beach with new clothes and hip slang. I just spoke to everyone and tried to be like myself, and suddenly I was... popular? I was nominated to be the class rep because people had faith in me, and I was invited on nights out and lunch breaks, and it was totally different because I had spent most of high school in my room listening to music. BUT I still didn't really belong. We did the activities they wanted to do as a collective. Terrible clubs playing music I didn't like, house parties full of weed when I hate the stuff, chats about the cinema when I never go. I wish I'd had the confidence to pull back, to say that it wasn't for me, to go to do my own thing and try to meet people who were more on my wavelength - but I liked being part of a group.

After graduating I gave up drinking for six months, and I realised that so much of my life was framed around getting drunk with people for fun rather than sharing their company for fun. When you're the only sober one on a night out, and you're already not enjoying that night out, you see things differently. I was using dating apps and the internet generally to find people more like myself and do things with those people that I actually wanted to do, albeit with a low strike rate. A few months later I fell into a major depression, proper not-leaving-the-house stuff. I let a lot of people down, they let me down. Everyone I was pals with from uni and the few I had from school, went from being good friends to social media acquaintances.

I lucked out in my late 20s. I got a job where I met some of the nicest, kindest, warmest people I could ever hope to work with, and despite the fact you shouldn't fill your friendships with colleagues I ended up with some great people in my life because of it, and crucially these people have always made me feel like they want to have me around. I also met my boyfriend. Now when a gig or an event comes up I want to go to, I don't have to say "please can we go to this thing?" because he already wants to go, and that's a huge comfort when you're otherwise trying to persuade someone to come to something more esoteric. And I met some amazing people at an afterparty - the kind of situation where you're best pals for a night and never see them again, except these people wanted to see me and I wanted to see them, and now we've become a friend group that goes on holiday together.

I think my generation still feels a sense of shame and embarassment about online communities. I think there's still a thing around online dating for people my age: everybody does it, but nobody really wants to admit it, despite the fact it makes more sense as a method than hoping that cute guy at the bar turns out to be single, interested, and not completely awful. I love being part of something like ILX: I get to chat about music that people in my everyday life wouldn't be interested in, and in a way that they would probably find boring and excessive. For example: I told everyone I know about Susanne Sundfor's "Ten Love Songs" and nobody really cared, whereas here people were willing to embrace it. Why wouldn't I want to self-select to attempt to enter a community that I have mutual interests and tastes with?

I think there's still a holdover of the idea that people who use forums and music groups are sad loners, the stereotype of the 90s basement dweller geek. But if you use Twitter and Facebook to chat around subject hashtags it's not any different, really, and I think to keep up with online identities and topics you need to be sociable in a digital way.

tl;dr - I'd rather belong to an online community that would have me and feel a belonging there, than an in-person one that I feel zero affinity with.

At my high school leavers dance one of the more popular guys came up to me and asked why I acted like I was above it all and better than everyone and it was a revelation because it was absolutely not how I had experienced it

I was also told this a few times in my teens, when I was ostracised, friendless and massively under-confident, and I couldn't understand why I came across like that. But I lived in a small place, with small-minded people, and I knew that I had to escape at the earliest opportunity. Which I did.

I've always had a strong feeling of being an outsider likely due to my early upbringing:

1. I grew up in an evangelical christian church that thought the end times were nigh and the world was corrupt. This drove strong feelings of division: belonging within the church and isolation from the outside world. The sense of community was amazing but also like a cult.

2. My father was culturally jewish and despite #1, we also went to synagogue on high holidays, kept kosher at passover, etc. There were not that many jews where I grew up, so this heightened the sense of isolation from the general community and even from others in our church.

3. Even though we grew up in a "conservative" environment, my parents were former hippies and my father was an artist and to some extent an iconoclast. This set us apart from some in the church environment as well as non-church people we knew who had more "normal" jobs and backgrounds.

These lessons (and my own narcissism) probably drove me to self-selection as an outsider long after the above stopped directly affecting my life. The few friendships I had were all with people I had met in high school/college/law school, all of whom lived 3 hours away, and I didn't make any new friends for nearly 15 years. I was torn between a strong desire for connection/belonging/wider friendships but really unable or unwilling to make them happen.

About 7-8 years ago I finally started making an effort to connect with a guy I had known for a couple years casually through a weekend sport activity. We hit it off and that friendship in turn led my wife and I to a number of friendships with other people in our local community, which has made our lives much richer.

TLDR (and obvious); friendships require work. You are not so amazing that people will beat your door down to find you. You have to put yourself out there.

Great replies so far – thanks, all.

Solidarity with everyone from conservative, closed-minded, insular, isolated places. I wonder all the time about the profound difference the internet makes/has made for people, especially young people. I experienced so much isolation and loneliness for being slightly different in my stupid town (I blame my parents, who were Not From There), and then while I was in college, the internet blew my mind as I was suddenly bffs with likeminded ppl from all over the world. <3 <3

it was a revelation because it was absolutely not how I had experienced it: six years of being called a poof, why would I feel welcome around these people?

I experienced this too. Like...you tortured me for literally years, every day. Don't think I wouldn't happily watch you drown--be glad I'm happy to just leave here and never come back.

Given that we moved every 6-12 months on average while I was growing up, I was already inclined to think of friendships and associations in general as temporary, but I think the first two years of high school were probably the most formative inasmuch as we lived in almost literally the middle of nowhere (in military housing, a 10-15 minute drive to the gate (I was too young to drive) and then another 45 minute drive to anything resembling civilization (again, did not drive) with no one my age around the base, went to a rural shitheel school in a completely different town really effing far away). I pretty much had to learn to be okay with entertaining myself. And then it kind of became my default. Which is not to say that it's been my only mode, just the one I've tended to drift back to over and over again. The people in my life who have stuck around accept that I tend to spend an inordinate amount of time up my own ass and understand that it isn't personal. But I understand that many people don't have patience for that. Which I understand is an impediment to feeling like I belong and which I accept is my problem to solve if I ever really want to feel like I belong but I'm also in my forties now so how much can I really expect to change at this point, is the thing.

grew up the only black/mixed race kid in a small village, only one in primary school and when i got to secondary school in the town next door i was the only one in my year group. there were a pair of black twins in their final year but that was it. i have no way of knowing whether my sense of not belonging came from this or if it's just the way things are with me, a general sense of low key wariness when around people. otoh although i am in no way patriotic and don't support the England national team i have always felt English and am not conflicted in that at all.

as for other areas of belonging, the only groups or clubs i've been part of are the village football team which went fine and the artisan section of the local golf club which i've been a member of since i was 10 where for reduced membership fees in comparison to the main members(who were actually commonly referred to as the 'toffs' back in the day) you have to do work on the golf course 4 times a year. so i'm a member of this club but hadn't played with another person for over 20 years until post covid protocols meant a reduced number of tee times and i finally met some of the other members, but still prefer going solo.

apart from a year at university in London(hated it) i've spent the rest of my life in the same village and contrary to the small town experiences of other ilxors i've found privacy and anonymity p easy. the people who lived in the other half of my semi detached house lived there for 5 years without me knowing their names or they mine, and when they moved out the new neighbours have been there for 2 years and i don't know their names either. the stereotype of all villages knowing everybody else's business certainly not true here.

so i guess i'm a loner but who knows why or cares, it's the state of being that makes me calmest and happiest.

my knee-jerk response to this question is that i don’t belong, except maybe to my nuclear family? (mother and sisters) it would probably be more accurate to say that I have tried to belong in a series of larger communities that i ended up in (social circles at school (all the way up through grad school—I think I tried hardest to fit in in grad school) the ethnic community I was born into, fellow English teachers). I have historically made some headway and then reached a point where I felt pretty alienated for one reason or another. This suggests that the difficulty in belonging is in me.

I would also say that I think I’m fine with this, or as fine as it’s possible to be. I’ve always had people I loved who loved me. I remember talking to my youngest sister once about her decision to move to India for some years in her 20s and 30s. She indicated that part of her impulse was a feeling that she had never found “her people” in America. I remember feeling startled at the idea that one could—I certainly haven’t either.

I feel like this sounds so dramatic, but I don’t think it is. I just think I’m kind of ornery and sensitive to difference.

but also there are communities I identify with in an imaginary way and feel committed to advocating for...Muslim women, teachers, nonwhite people in a variety of contexts. Doesn’t mean I’m good at making and staying friends with others in those communities, but imaginary identification is easier!

I lucked out in my late 20s. I got a job where I met some of the nicest, kindest, warmest people I could ever hope to work with, and despite the fact you shouldn't fill your friendships with colleagues I ended up with some great people in my life because of it, and crucially these people have always made me feel like they want to have me around. I also met my boyfriend. Now when a gig or an event comes up I want to go to, I don't have to say "please can we go to this thing?" because he already wants to go, and that's a huge comfort when you're otherwise trying to persuade someone to come to something more esoteric. And I met some amazing people at an afterparty - the kind of situation where you're best pals for a night and never see them again, except these people wanted to see me and I wanted to see them, and now we've become a friend group that goes on holiday together.

just wanted to say this made me happy to read and it's definitely something i've experienced a little of and hope to experience more of, because the connections i've made under circumstances like this never lasted.

oh don't get me wrong - I've been to many an afters where I've been immediate pals with people for a few hours, had them on Facebook a few months and then never seen or heard from them again. I've worked with teams of 30-40 people and found nobody I would ever invite into my home. And I did a lot of first dates in my teens and early 20s, although there's probably different things to be said about that. Like I say - lucked out.

I've always found it quite amazing that very like-minded people manage to meet, when I was younger I had a fascination for that part of bands and art scenes having people who managed to find each other. But I've discovered that a lot of those people were also very different and often didn't care for each other much.

I don't imagine I'll ever find many people in travelling distance whose company I crave, it just seems like a vanishingly small number of people I want to be with for very long; sometimes email, forums and blogs seems like the ideal kind of friendship but occasionally I miss speaking with friends in person. The idea of a future without workable internet seems completely horrifying, I wonder if people would travel more again to meet others like themselves.

All my real life friends (apart from my brother, sister and her boyfriend) have drifted away. I've only met up with a friend 2 or 3 times in the past 5 years and it has been surprisingly fine, I only miss one or two of them a little. I find the longer I am alone, the easier it gets.

There were some friends who I puzzled over why they wanted my company (not in a self-deprecating way) and I'm not surprised they drifted away but I am still a tad annoyed that I made so much effort to keep up with them and most of them made so little for me. I wish they had told me that they had other priorities now (understandable) and saved me the bother. But I know they liked me enough that maybe they were worried about hurting my feelings.

I think any really meaningful friendships I'm ever going to have will come from working at my art, which takes for-goddamned-ever. My best online friend came through that.

Sweet thread. Funny to see a couple of ..

At my high school leavers dance one of the more popular guys came up to me and asked why I acted like I was above it all and better than everyone and it was a revelation because it was absolutely not how I had experienced it

I remember getting this from one of the younger teachers but like put in a positive way. It was still weird to hear. All I can think is that when you're shit on constantly, just being able to walk around appears defiant to people who don't experience that. It's funny. What else can you do, cower in a corner until graduation?

Heaven forfend you should think yourself better than people you already implicitly understand will peak in high school.

couldn't really grasp that then, lol

high school the ideal time to peak imo

young dumb and full of cum

the truth is, i wish i could have peaked in high school, but that would have required that high school be replaced with the anvil

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/nrX-GZCnYxU/maxresdefault.jpg

I'm still waiting to hit any kind of peak tbh

ime, and genuinely not to discount experience itt or elsewhere, talk of peaks in that way is a road to toxic thoughts

All I can think is that when you're shit on constantly, just being able to walk around appears defiant to people who don't experience that. It's funny. What else can you do, cower in a corner until graduation?

Yeah cf also the people who said, "I wish I could be like you, you don't care what anyone says," knowing a) what it was costing me privately, and also b) if someone wants to hurt you WHY TF WOULD YOU SHOW THEM IT'S WORKING? Duh.

Man we have a lot of hurt to work through. I'm glad we all turned out to be such well balanced high-functioning people who found each other on the internet!! Truly.

xp otm

Was all this bullying their misguided way of trying to make friends? Or did they just gradually realize they wanted your company?

family issues aside, i never really put too much weight on the fact that i hang out or spend time with various groups, some of which would probably not hang out with each other.

i do have a small tight-knit circle of friends i've known for twenty years or so now. they're probably the people i can relax with the most and be more honest with. but we're also, for the most part, more "like-minded," which sounds hippy-dippy, but it's true!

having said all that, it's all pushed me to compartmentalize my thoughts and life more than i'd want. so when another circle of acquaintances finds out something about me that seems left of centre for that group, they become intrigued. but given the context, it's hard to really gauge whether this is something that i should share more of, because some human interaction is just plain difficult and some people are just hard to read. i'd rather keep it to what brings us together when in these circles.

xp I think it's more for a lot of people they didn't realise how impactful their words etc had been and didn't like the idea of someone harbouring bitterness towards them.

1. I grew up in an evangelical christian church that thought the end times were nigh and the world was corrupt. This drove strong feelings of division: belonging within the church and isolation from the outside world. The sense of community was amazing but also like a cult.

2. My father was culturally jewish and despite #1, we also went to synagogue on high holidays, kept kosher at passover, etc. There were not that many jews where I grew up, so this heightened the sense of isolation from the general community and even from others in our church.

― perhaps I myself was the object of my search (PBKR), Friday, March 5, 2021 7:29 AM (two days ago) bookmarkflaglink

I am absolutely serious when I say you could sell a book proposal about this in about half a second.