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Geoff Hoon will announce today that he will let the US use the Fylingdales Radar installation as part of the US National Missile Defence Scheme. Parliament, the representatives of the british people, has not been consulted even though 200 MPs have expressed reservations about such a scheme. Why does the british system of government allow for such an abuse of the power ceded from the british people to parliament?

― Ed (dali), Wednesday, 15 January 2003 10:44 (twenty-three years ago)

Because not enough people care?

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 15 January 2003 13:32 (twenty-three years ago)

Not enough people know.

― Ed (dali), Wednesday, 15 January 2003 13:34 (twenty-three years ago)

Because they would rather listen to Virgin Radio and read about Girls Aloud? Do you really think that if you told everyone in the country about it who hadn't heard that something would change?

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 15 January 2003 13:36 (twenty-three years ago)

No, but it pisses me off me that all those people who get angry about ceding sovereignty to europe don't appear to worry about creeping loss of sovereignty to the US

― Ed (dali), Wednesday, 15 January 2003 13:43 (twenty-three years ago)

i was thinking exactly that, ed

but unfortunately the anti-war left seems to have a massive historical squeamishness about pointing out how internationalist and idealist issues have actual materialist impact on voters locally, as if appealing (in part) to the voter's self-interests were some kind of massive moral betrayal (of course when it has been done, it's often been done in a unconscionably chauvinistic way, so the abreaction against it has a certain justification)

― mark s (mark s), Wednesday, 15 January 2003 13:51 (twenty-three years ago)

(points off for all words of just one syllable, sorry)

― mark s (mark s), Wednesday, 15 January 2003 13:52 (twenty-three years ago)

There is a distinction Ed. Ceding sovereignty to the EU is about constitutional change. We are not ceding sovereignty to the USA (except for in the little pockets of US bases's land) - we're just agreeing to let them implement part of the their defence programme on our shores. We are allowed to change our mind if we want.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 15 January 2003 13:57 (twenty-three years ago)

which is why the left is less successful than it should be, people are not naturally idealistic but they care that there house is still standing when they get home.

(I had to look up abreaction, what's wrong with catharsis?)

― Ed (dali), Wednesday, 15 January 2003 13:58 (twenty-three years ago)

N. but with this land comes and acceptance that we agree with what the US is doing re missile defence, without explicitly saying so. we hook ourselves to the US military wagon with no discernible benefit to the UK.

― Ed (dali), Wednesday, 15 January 2003 14:00 (twenty-three years ago)

i always say abreaction when i just mean reaction = i am mr pretentious

― mark s (mark s), Wednesday, 15 January 2003 14:00 (twenty-three years ago)

abreaction n : (psychoanalysis) purging of emotional tensions [syn: {catharsis}, {katharsis}]

― Ed (dali), Wednesday, 15 January 2003 14:01 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't understand the first sentence. As for the discernible benefit, well how about 'you scratch my back I'll scratch yours' realpolitik? The USA are a quite powerful friend to have. Yes, I totally agree that cosying up to them too much makes us a target for the people they shit on too. I guess it's a balance. And I wish we didn't have those bases. And Star Wars II is moronic.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 15 January 2003 14:05 (twenty-three years ago)

i mean something stronger than the word "reaction" seems to say (like "coming out in a life-threatening rash" is a reaction to eating a peanut, but so is "going mmm")

― mark s (mark s), Wednesday, 15 January 2003 14:07 (twenty-three years ago)

Star Wars 2 if anything weakens the US by lulling it into a false sense of security so even the powerful friend argument doesn't really work. Part of friendship is the ability to save ones friends from making stupid mistakes. So far Tony Blair has been able to influence bush on bugger all.

― Ed (dali), Wednesday, 15 January 2003 14:11 (twenty-three years ago)

Why is US domination worse than EU domination tho?

― dave q, Wednesday, 15 January 2003 14:13 (twenty-three years ago)

Its not, but hopefully the EU will become more democratic and we the people will have more of a say in its future. We have very little say in the US democratic process.

― Ed (dali), Wednesday, 15 January 2003 14:15 (twenty-three years ago)

So far Tony Blair has been able to influence bush on bugger all.

But how do you know such a thing? Many people say Blair has been a doveish Colin Powellesque influence on Bush's plans. Why should I believe you and not them?

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 15 January 2003 14:21 (twenty-three years ago)

but i dont want blair to be an influence on bush. i trust Blair less than Bush

― gareth (gareth), Wednesday, 15 January 2003 14:22 (twenty-three years ago)

yes gareth but do you trust blair less than dick cheney?

the sunday doc on milosovizc wz interesting, abt how much aggressive national-interest horsetrading does go on behind the scenes: also tony talking i tht surprisingly openly abt how he felt they were losing the public argument after various nato blunders in kosovo (surprising bcz it absolutely gave encouragement to protestors today, by admitting that active angry protest is taken more seriously than it certainly seemed to be at the time)

― mark s (mark s), Wednesday, 15 January 2003 14:28 (twenty-three years ago)

fair point mark, i'm not sure

― gareth (gareth), Wednesday, 15 January 2003 14:48 (twenty-three years ago)

but im not sure what positive influence blair is supposed to be bringing

― gareth (gareth), Wednesday, 15 January 2003 14:49 (twenty-three years ago)

Whatever you think of the current stance, the war hasn't actually started yet.

("Yes yes George, we will go to war with you, we just have to wait for the Un a bit. No I don't trust them but its a British thing. But yeah, after Christmas whatever. Maybe things will change.")

― Pete (Pete), Wednesday, 15 January 2003 14:55 (twenty-three years ago)

We like using your radar machines. We would also like to own Carnaby Street. We will send The Gap. Can we also use Big Ben? We have no huge clocks.

― Mike Hanle y (mike), Wednesday, 15 January 2003 15:34 (twenty-three years ago)

fifteen years pass...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZMZRvYMHm4

― Britain's Sexiest Cow (jed_), Thursday, 5 July 2018 22:10 (seven years ago)

― Britain's Sexiest Crow

― Britain's Sexiest Cow (jed_), Thursday, 5 July 2018 22:51 (seven years ago)

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