Computer Realists vs. Computer Enthusiasts (Mac related, but applicable to any technology, really)...

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In a recent discussion about OS 10.2 (Jaguar), I asked fellow Mac enthusiasts if "Jaguar is still sluggish". I briefly explained my experience with earlier OSX as one that "truly sucked".

I found it amusing the amount of vitriol I got in response. How dare I accuse their favorite OS of sucking?...Even as they admit it is slower than OS 9.

Do you find this easy access to anger a wonderful life-enhancing quality? When people's faces turn red over computers, I have to laugh.

Scaredy Cat, Tuesday, 21 January 2003 20:37 (twenty-three years ago)

Since I'm about to bid on eBay on a new(er) PowerBook; *is it* really sluggish? Is it slower than OS 9 (which I think is fine)?

Sean (Sean), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 03:53 (twenty-three years ago)

My operating system serves much the same purpose as my city: its a place to communicate, to work, to etc. However much I moan about what a lousy place I live, I hate to hear other people griping about the same. Likewise for my choice of OS.

I can't say I enjoy hearing people going back and forth over how much the other folks OS 'truly sucks', but I can sort of understand why they do it.

Since I'm about to bid on eBay on a new(er) PowerBook; *is it* really sluggish? Is it slower than OS 9 (which I think is fine)?

I think the interface for single tasking feels much slower, but OS X shines when I'm jumping between a dozen applications. Gobs of memory on that Powerbook will make your experience more pleasant.

Jaacob, Wednesday, 22 January 2003 06:14 (twenty-three years ago)

Macs suck.

toraneko (toraneko), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 07:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Hmf.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 07:03 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm a hardcore unix bigot, but I'll admit there are things it sucks at. Refusing criticism of something you like is not the road to progress. (Queue the nationalism versus patriotism debate.)

Dave Fischer, Wednesday, 22 January 2003 07:47 (twenty-three years ago)

PC hardware is currently equal to or better than Mac hardware. This is undeniable, especially at even price lines.

Lots of people seem to think that Mac software is generally better than PC software. On the other hand there's a much bigger pile of PC software.

The PC community is much much bigger whereas the Mac community is - uh - more rabid.

In the end I've never liked the way a Mac does anything except for that pulsing power LED thing it does when it's sleeping.

Stuart, Wednesday, 22 January 2003 15:49 (twenty-three years ago)

WOW! I did some research about the best way to go about running OS X and in the process realized I already have 2 programs carbonized for both OS 9 and 10.

So, I found this brilliant post saying to back everything up, partition your hard drive into 5 bits: OS X, OS 9, FONTS, SCRATCH and STORAGE. 10 Gig, 3 Gig, 2 Gig, 1 Gig and whatever's left for storage.

Brilliant idea. Loading both operating systems and all the updates went very quickly since my HD was completely wiped by the partitioning.

OS X is a romping healthy puppy. Now I feel foolish for partitioning the OS 9 bit a little higher (I set it for 6 Gigs, rather than 3) because it is obvious that it will be a waste of space. I really only need 9 for one program I'm currently interested in and all I need for X is the Photoshop update.

If anyone's been holding off on Jaguar simply out of worry, try it this way. This thing is awesome now!

Oh yeah, Adobe InDesign really is the Quark Killer. After playing with it for only a few minutes I realized how much easier it really is. And I'd grown very fond of my Quark speed, too.

Scaredy Cat, Wednesday, 22 January 2003 16:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Indesign is grebt but it is no quark killer. more's the pity. jaguar is v good, the previously sluggish "finder" is v fast. i have no complaints about OS X any more. i have plenty about Quark including, why the FUCK didn't they carbonise it for 5. fuxors

Alan (Alan), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 16:03 (twenty-three years ago)

Scaredy Cat, I think their problem was you making the jump from a bit "sluggish" to "truly sucking". Why?

Graham (graham), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 16:27 (twenty-three years ago)

It was a truly sucking experience. A year ago when I used 10.1 with much less RAM (and not partitioned at all, just the way Apple delivered it w/ both systems on one big drive) it was the worst experience I've ever had with a computer ever. It took me days of trying to figure it out while crashing ("HEY! It's not supposed to crash!," I thought) and the UI was sluggish, but running 9 over 10 was impossible.

The experience I'm having now with 5 partitians and 1.25 Gigs of RAM... well, it's the exact opposite of a truly sucking experience. It's quite amazing, in fact. I can't believe how much shit I can have open at the same time and I can't make it crash.

Scaredy Cat, Wednesday, 22 January 2003 17:11 (twenty-three years ago)

jaguar runs just fine on my G3 500 with 640Mb Ram. I've just banished OS 9 from my machine as I never use it (I'm also trying to banish M$ software from my computer KDE Office is pretty good really)


HOwever, back to the question. I am a definite enthusiast but to the extent of wanting my primary tool in life (my computer) to be as elegant as possible and to work with me rather than frustrate me. I really dislike people who fail to learn how to use their computers properly and effectively.

Ed (dali), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 21:51 (twenty-three years ago)

Macs are cool, but too expensive. That's about it.

Andrew (enneff), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 22:13 (twenty-three years ago)

InDesign may be great but it's not good if your sevice bureau won't take InDesign files. I've never had a moment's problem with Quark, although at work I do use it on a (windows pc).

I want so badly to buy a new (or newish) PowerBook so I can use an iPod and feel all gee-whiz that I'm almost at the point of physical pain. Never having any actual cash money and always having credit card debt is stopping me. For now.

Sean (Sean), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 23:09 (twenty-three years ago)

speaking of overpriced, how about the ipod? it may be a lovely bit of gear, but how much do you really need to spend $500 for a walkman?

fields of salmon (fieldsofsalmon), Thursday, 23 January 2003 05:31 (twenty-three years ago)

Don't they start at $300? And it *is* a lovely piece of gear.

Sean (Sean), Thursday, 23 January 2003 06:26 (twenty-three years ago)

I really dislike people who fail to learn how to use their computers properly and effectively.

Ed neatly summed up my opinion of the entire Mac community in one sentence - but of course, it's not their faults, they just need proper and effective computers.

toraneko (toraneko), Thursday, 23 January 2003 12:52 (twenty-three years ago)

Quark is here to stay. As much as working with Quark annoys me with it's backward nature, it is popular because it is relatively solid and the entire print world is geered up for it's little quirks.

On the occasions that I've used InDesign I've been hugely impressed with the ease I am able to create flashy and tidy looking documents compared to the tedious runarounds I have to use in Quark, but we still have people where I work who haven't got used to the change between Quark 3 and Quark 4 yet!

This is not to mention the fact that almost every workflow is geered up for Quark EPSs (Or possibly Quark EPSs converted to PDFs) and any change to InDesign will involve a huge investment in these areas, not to mention upgrading workstations to handle the increased processing and memory resources InDesign demands. So, as much as I want to see it happen, it won't be for a number of years (if at all.)

As regards OSX, I'm using OSX on my girlfriends laptop at the moment and it's nice, but I'd rather be on my PC running XP. I find mine smoother, more flexible, and more importantly any PC is going to cost less and run faster than any Mac until they manage to sort out a new type of system architecture.

Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Thursday, 23 January 2003 15:36 (twenty-three years ago)

toreneko, that wasn't what I meant at all. Just as many mac users as pc users completely fail to grasp how their computer works. It doesn't really matter what OS, processor or whatever you use its how you use them and loads of people never bother to learn. They fail to grasp what their computers can and can't do and how to get best use from it.

Ed (dali), Thursday, 23 January 2003 15:43 (twenty-three years ago)

scaredy cat, can you point me out some docs on this partitioning malarky.

Ed (dali), Thursday, 23 January 2003 15:44 (twenty-three years ago)

Don't they start at $300? And it *is* a lovely piece of gear.

not in canadian dollars, anyway ;-)

fields of salmon (fieldsofsalmon), Thursday, 23 January 2003 15:47 (twenty-three years ago)

Sure, thing, Ed here it is... Someone submitted it to k10k.net (which is a pretty neat little site for designers)...

Hope it helps you.

As for me, I'm all set, but back to OS9 again. There isn't a proper font utility yet for OS X and 300 or so of my favorite kickass fonts won't work at all. OS X only will tolerate the most boring standards from Adobe or some foundry that's putting out 100 year old typefaces.

OSX is awesome, though. And fast. As soon as that type gets settled, I'm on it.

Scaredy Cat, Friday, 24 January 2003 00:35 (twenty-three years ago)

5GB iPod should be starting at $199 as soon as the new models roll out. 60GB is a possibility (my whole collection in me pocket Holy Fucking For-Reals duuuuuuuuude).

Also, my 3-yr old iBook has been subjected to thrills, chills, copious cigarette ash and I even poured most of a pint of beer on it once (not on purpose) while it was running. I am going to run this mother into the ground (or I'm finally going to give in to Escape Velocity on OS X and buy a new computer for the purpose).

With this in mind, it may be easier to understand why some Mac users are fanatic about some things.

Millar (Millar), Friday, 24 January 2003 00:58 (twenty-three years ago)

I just bought an 8 month old PowerBook on eBay, btw. Those titanium chassis are the sexiest things ever. Sure I'll be able to run all my apps on gee-whiz OSX, which is nice. But the look and feel of that industrial design makes me go absolutley nuts.

And oh yeah; now I can use an iPod!!!

Sean (Sean), Friday, 24 January 2003 01:18 (twenty-three years ago)

congrats sean! dare i ask how much it cost? what are the stats?

fields of salmon (fieldsofsalmon), Friday, 24 January 2003 02:59 (twenty-three years ago)

Uh. let's see, 550 Mhz, 512 Mb RAM, other stuff, Combo Drive. Plus (and this is a plus for someone without a fast internet connection or helpful Mac buddies, know what I mean), it's *loaded* with software. I can't wait.

Sean (Sean), Friday, 24 January 2003 03:16 (twenty-three years ago)

dare i ask $$$?

fields of salmon (fieldsofsalmon), Friday, 24 January 2003 03:17 (twenty-three years ago)


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