Asking for a raise and how to do it?

For 'nice' read 'essential.'

Not good with this since my job's reclassification policies are Byzantine (and as it is I haven't taken on any extra work...yet). I would say you definitely want to show a breakdown of what you are doing and how you've assumed these responsibilities as well as continuing your current ones -- if your VP is just always expecting you'll be there, you probably want to make it clear that you might consider leaving as well. Is there a separate HR department at your job or not?

Be nice, but firm: "As you know... added responsibilities... I've prepared this material..., etc." also offer a plan of what you could do for the firm.

If you receive a decisive No, you'll at least be armed with what the market pays for your position and will be in a better position to look for another firm.

My advice would be not to dwell too much on 'extra responsibilities' in general - instead focus on VERY SPECIFIC achievements that you have contributed in the time that you've been reporting to him. Get him to agree that they have been important.

Make an appointment with him and hand him the document a short time before - maybe a day or so. Don't e-mail it to him. Make sure you tell him face to face what you want to talk about. Control the meeting and keep it on the subject at hand. Most importantly - don't think you're doing anything wrong here - keep your nerve and be firm about getting what you're entitled to.

I would not be too heavy about quitting unless you really mean to- instead make it plain that you know the going rate, you know people in other, similar companies and generally give the impression that you're well connected and that you *might* leave.

Oh yes - the achievements that I suggested that you base your case on - ONLY pick examples that are things that your boss would have previously done. If possible show how you have improved on the way that they were done before. Make it clear that you are DOING THAT JOB, also that you think you're doing it well.

Do you have a contract or job description which clearly states your new responsibilities. You should insist on one - if necessary draw one up yourself and get your VP to agree and sign it, and possibly someone from HR if appropriate. This might be useful in the future.

I was regraded last year and I DID submit a detailed list of duties like the one you've done, and it helped my case, so if your workplace is more flexible with pay scales than mine then I'd say go for it!

REVIVE!!!!

As has been detailed on several boards recently, I just passed the bar exam. While not yet a fully licensed attorney, I have done all that I am supposed to have done to become one. I am simply waiting on the California Bar Association to get its ass in gear and shuffle papers correctly.

I succesfully negotiated a 10% cost of living raise about a month and a half ago, and it was announced with the following statement from my boss:

"This raise is without prejudice to our right to elevate [B.L.A.M's] compensation yet again when he soon passes the bar."

Which I did.

And yet, in the first paycheck since I passed almost two weeks ago - the paycheck was two days late, btw - I see no raise.

Please advise as to how to proceed, because I feel like putting my fucking office chair through the wall right now.

payroll is outsourced to some place that doesn't know or care that you passed the bar? did somebody actually tell you "now that you have passed the bar, your pay will be increased again from X to XX?"

Nope. SMALL office - boss' wife does payroll.

And yes, I was told that once I pass the bar, my salary would increase "significantly."

Its really a slap in the face. After how long it took for me to pass the fucking thing, to get no added comp.

just ask them. it's possible it was just an oversight.

I would assume you will get more $$ but maybe not exactly on the first paycheck after passing. I mean right now since you're not yet licensed I assume the cashflow hasn't changed e.g. you aren't yet billing hours at a rate to provide yourself a new salary?

i wouldn't expect to get a bigger paycheck until i got something in writing saying my salary would increase or has increased. have you gotten anything like that? what you were told (by whom?) about a salary increase seems different from what your boss said about a right to increase your salary. was the increase explicitly tied to your bar passage or your subsequent admission? or an increase simply may not have kicked in yet, administratively - for instance, is the pay period covered by the check inclusive of time during which you had not yet passed?

Please advise as to how to proceed, because I feel like putting my fucking office chair through the wall right now.

El WRONGO attitude to have when thinking about how to ask for a raise.

Right attitude: When you are certified, yr earning potential will increase dramatically, regardless of who you may or may not work for.

"It's time to start thinking about my career."

is the pay period covered by the check inclusive of time during which you had not yet passed?

I passed one week into the period that this paycheck covers, so there should be...in my mind...at least some increase.

Its really the principle of the matter. I have done nothing but try my hardest and consistently get compliments and positive feedback about my work and my growth as an employee, but was told that passing the bar was the biggest point of demarcation.

Coupled with an entirely unexplained, unacknowledged delay in getting my paycheck to me...this has made for a shithead of a Wednesday.

they should punish you for your logic here

or maybe you just need to eat lunch

So did your boss come by and tell you congratulations and walk away, or has it been mentioned since your last (small) raise? I'd just bring it up, it's possible they're waiting for the paperwork to go through, or maybe they just need a gentle reminder or monetary circumstances have changed around the office since then.

poll the rest of your class, maybe its time for a lawsuit

I passed one week into the period that this paycheck covers, so there should be...in my mind...at least some increase.

I would give it at least another pay period. That seems entirely too quick for a salary adjustment to be processed. If it doesn't happen soon, just kindly remind your boss of his promise.

If it was really just overlooked, you can always negotiate for them to make it retroactive afterward.

Screw the raise, OK. Time to find a new job.

the right attitude here is to cheerfully inquire when the salary change will kick in, not to assume that you are being shafted because of one check, when you passed only halfway through the period and have not been admitted and your billing rate (always a key factor) may not have changed. what's right in your mind means nothing if it hasn't been discussed and hammered down with your boss. talking about other options is probably not the right approach in this kind of market. if you want to look elsewhere, do so quietly.

The paycheck delay would be more worrisome to me. Has there ever been any other sign that the firm has cash flow problems?

How you ask the boss about the raise will be your biggest test at the firm. You gotta smile and be casual or they will be able to say "suddenly it was like it was a different BLAM working there...I hardly knew the guy..."

(gabbneb otm)

Gabb, you make good points, and I would be wise to follow the advice they provide.

And yeah, the cashflow around here is really kind of ridiculous. I'm constantly told about how succesful this place was, and my boss is always at his beach house, etc., etc.

Pay me, motherfucker. I don't work for clients. I work for you.

Its a slap in the face - Unacknowledged, two day delay combined with no mention of (a) when increase will occur or (b) what the increase will be.

Am I supposed to intuit when I will begin getting paid as an attorney and not as a "law clerk" any more?

And the billing rates really don't matter - we're Plaintiff's side, and most is on contingency. Not that I've ever seen any extra due to a large award or anything. If they can't afford to pay me what I'm worth, they should let me know so I can start looking for another job.

I should really just go home. I'm too pissed to do any more work today.

two day delay = how many days off did everyone get last week

No, no. These arguments do not make any difference.

I am to be paid on the 1st and 16th of every month. If there is a delay, I expect to be told AHEAD of schedule. I don't think this is unreasonable in any way.

Here, I was not told ANYTHING. I just didn't get paid until today, the 3rd.

relax dude, you are probably overpaid as it is

Did you ask why there was a delay?

I am to be paid on the 1st and 16th of every month. If there is a delay, I expect to be told AHEAD of schedule. I don't think this is unreasonable in any way.

Then quit.

Am I supposed to intuit when I will begin getting paid as an attorney and not as a "law clerk" any more?

i don't know if you're still a law clerk, but you're not yet an attorney. and maybe they expect you to ask for a number, or at least initiate the discussion. maybe that even accounts for the delay. either way, i think you're taking this too seriously/personally.

relax dude, you are probably overpaid as it is

hey jeff, what do you do and how much are you paid for it?

TOMBOTM.

the entire world just got laid off, but good luck with your raise

B.L.A.M. - earlier today
http://www.coverbrowser.com/image/time/4191-1.jpg

Bummer about not getting the raise but at least you got on the cover of time magazine

do banks even honor miniature paychecks? i think they're messing with you man.

They have to honor them it's the law

You could even write a check on your dick and they'd have to honor it, not a lot of people know that

Does it have to have your current address pre-printed?

No but if it doesn't they look at you a little funny.

BLAM it seems to me like this raise issue is standing in for a whole host of other problems you have with this place.. i.e. if you really liked working there this wouldn't feel like such a chair-throwingly urgent personal affront but more like the dumb clunky turnings of small-office bureaucracy that it almost certainly is?

I suspect gambling debts and knee caps are involved.

Don't just NOT pay me and expect me to be all "Well, I guess I should continue to work into the next pay period without being paid for the previous one." That ain't me, babe.

it is you, because you apparently did it, without saying anything to them, or just ASKING them about your raise. you said it yourself in the very beginning: it took a long time and a lot of effort to pass the bar, they might've forgotten or it's an oversight. i sincerely hope you've ASKED them by now because quite frankly missing the first paycheck after you passed the bar mid-pay-period is really not an "I AM QUITTING OVER THIS HORRIBLE SLAP IN THE FACE" type of oversight.

ya ive only had a real job for like a couple months but its weird to me that youd just sort of expect a raise without saying anything at all to ur boss

I've said something, and I've been told...repeatedly...that I would get a raise once I pass the bar exam.
So, we'll see.

Thanks for all the reminders of how untenable my position is, though. You guys are AWESOME.

duder u passed the bar, that should count for like at least a month of unfuckwitable good feelings, stop letting msg board posters get to you

duder u passed the bar, that should count for like at least a month of unfuckwitable good feelings, stop letting msg board posters get to you

I have been smiling for two weeks, and expect that to continue for at least about another year or so.

Jeff and the Schef getting me down? Nah. Not today.

http://i33.tinypic.com/2gwsz9c.gif

I was given more duties yesterday and when asked if I had any questions I said "only the obvious one... money?"

can't you argue like ... consideration or promissory estoppel? That's about all I know, I've only had 4 weeks of contracts.

can't you argue like ... consideration or promissory estoppel? That's about all I know, I've only had 4 weeks of contracts.

You are getting into the right frame of mind, Burt. Keep it up, man. You'll do well on finals.

So, update:

My paycheck came a few days late, and wasn't up to the level that I expected, blah, blah, blah...

Come to find out this morning that the check BOUNCED. So, I incurred over $250 in overdraft charges, and my rent check bounced. It had been 10 days since I got paid, and I had heard nothing except a inquiry as to whether or not "everything was okay with my bank." Assuming that everything was, I didn't say anything.

I sent an email to the powers that be (boss and his wife who handles billing, but is out of town), and heard nothing about it. So, I called my bank to find out exactly what the story was, and was told about the charges listed above.

So, I call my boss and ask him about it, and he gets apologetic, and when I say "Checks are late, checks bounce...I can't do this anymore," he comes right back with "Well, I accept your resignation."

And I get a lecture from the secretary saying I shouldn't have talked to him about this, and that I just "ruined his day."

Am I ENTIRELY unreasonable here in thinking that this is ridiculous?

that is totally insane!

ok NOW is the time where you feel like throwing a chair through the window

What? WHAT??W{(*@()*()$@

No, no. It was a chair through the WALL. Windows would be too easy.

That's utter shit. Get the hell out of there asap and don't look back.

yeah, now is the actual freak out time.

you should actually consider legal action.

yeah, now is the actual freak out time.

This sounds familiar...when this happened at my workplace in 2000-2001, the owner was draining the company of cash assets, and defrauding other businesses to get loans then swiping that cash too. He's still got a few years of prison time to go.

sounds like they're having financial trouble, and either a) you're the least of their worries, or b) what they pay you is part of figuring out larger questions

you probably want to go somewhere else, but you probably want to have a job while you look - you can say you were just at this place until you passed the bar, and want to go somewhere better now that you're all hooked up

sounds like they're having financial trouble

Obv.

I'm really over this whole place. Everything is either unadressed or is a hair-on-fire emergency. I understand that a law firm of any size is going to have these stressors. I get that. But it has to be able to be handled better than this.

You did tell him you weren't really resigning, right?

in most states if your employer just stops paying you, you can qualify for unemployment, even if you quit or storm out or whathaveyou (ie not paying you is a tacit understanding that you have been let go, basically) so you should also look into that.

You did tell him you weren't really resigning, right?

Yes.

you probably want to go somewhere else, but you probably want to have a job while you look - you can say you were just at this place until you passed the bar, and want to go somewhere better now that you're all hooked up

Gabb, you are wise.

I hope that everyone who was trying to tell me I was being unreasonable earlier on this thread has gotten more of a feel for what passes for a work environment over here. Wow. So glad its Friday.

...

If you haven't already, you should document all of this to the best of your memory, minus the emotional reactions. Treat all future conversations with everybody at the firm as adversarial courtroom situations; transcribe afterwards. Saying "I can't do this anymore" was a bit of a mistake, but at least it got the boss to tip his hand. Good luck.

Saying "I can't do this anymore" was a bit of a mistake, but at least it got the boss to tip his hand. Good luck.

A calculated gambit, to be entirely honest. He has GOT to know that this type of shit, plus his seeming inability to give me a raise, could cause me to look elsewhere.

And now I know its on his mind.

lets move on and see what else happens.

Clearly this place is utter bullshit and getting the hell out is the best possible outcome!

I worked at a place with this kind of pay situation but it was a freaking donut shop and I was making freaking donuts. What I am saying is: one, I feel you and two: wtf why is a law office being run stupider than a freaking donut shop called 'Glazed Over' run by freaking drug runners?

Every time something fucks up, you can say, "What am I? Working at freaking GLAZED OVER? I passed the LAWYER bar exam, not the MAPLE bar exam!" if it makes you feel better.

No, when you have taken as much schooling as I have in the fine art of spinning bullshit, you have to come up with something really creative, like the following:

"What the fuck?"

"Yeah, so...the paychecks bounced. I need to get paid. Not as soon as possible. Not at your earliest convenience. Not when you can. Now. In fact, I would like to be paid now for the check that I'm due on the 16th, that will inevitably be late."

"This type of situation really does not build my confidence in your promises of a raise."

Somehow (and against all odds w.r.t. current chaos with the other progammers) I managed to unexpectedly negotiate a 6% raise. Currently feeling half "go me!" and half "WTFOMG"

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/8/26/896386/-Want-a-raise-Wash-your-vagina

I got a raise! =O

Despite having worked in various jobs for, like, most of the last 15 years, I've only experienced getting an actual-official-without-leaving-jobs-raise a handful of times, it is rilly cool

Have only had one (admittedly fairly generous but only brought me up to a fair salary) rise in the 3.5 years Ive been here. Did a performace review for the FIRST TIME this year (ppl be distracted in this company) and mentioned that I expected somew kind of pay reassesment, even if just CPI.

Nothing's been mentioned since. I know I could be earning $20k a year in similar work elsewhere, but it involves jumping into a fairly new company (NBNCo if anyone knows what that's about) who may collapse in 2 years as theyre kind of at the whim of whichever govt gets in at the next election.

I wanna use "hey they headhunted me" as a bluff. I like working here! I just want more bloody money. I know ppl who do frontline 1st level support who earn almost what I do :(

Oh and we never get end of year or xmas bonuses either, which my last big job handed out heaps of (never got raises there, but got loads of bonuses).

Small companies can suck :(

My wife just got regraded at work, which is effectively a 25% raise. She now earns the same as me, stoked.