transsexuals.

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I was up late watching TV last night. there was a programme on about transsexuals--specifically female ones that had had operations and pillz to be more masculine appearing. they talked about not having penises [or a penis] and almost all [/all] said it didn't bother them--they didn't think they were missing out. they all looked pretty manly but that was because they had all gotten beards or some sort of facial hair grown and were probably quite ugly/'funny' looking women before. one of them had a really high, feminine voice and a beard. and a walking stick. one of them had had three children [who are now adults] as a lady before their "transformation." [s]he looked a bit like lou reed.

very weird programme.

the lou reed-looking one said that [s]he couldn't imagine that women could imagine the sex drive that men have or, men, that women don't have. and that it was only, really, transsexuals that knew the truth. this made me think that no-one knows the truth because they don't know what it's like to be a man or a woman. in the complete sense [not just talking penises].

transsexuals?

RJG (RJG), Friday, 24 January 2003 12:34 (twenty-three years ago)

'talking penises'

alix (alix), Friday, 24 January 2003 12:39 (twenty-three years ago)

does anyone know how to be human?... maybe make it a wee bit simpler.. can anyone be a small furry mammal with a big heart?

Gordon (Gordon), Friday, 24 January 2003 12:43 (twenty-three years ago)

Viewpoint 1: only transsexuals know what it feels like to be a man and a woman.

Viewpoint 2: transsexuals don't know what it feels like to be either a man or a woman.

I tend to side with the second one myself, even though it looks a bit pessimistic and depressing when stated like that. However, that doesn't apply to libido; from what I've read, libido changes are one of the most noticeable results (to the patient, at least) of hormone therapy.

Daft pseudo-philosophical aside to the above viewpoints: do *any* of us know what it's like to be a {man,woman}, or do we only know what it's like to be ourselves?

caitlin (caitlin), Friday, 24 January 2003 12:49 (twenty-three years ago)

i have no idea what it's like to be 'a man'.

electric sound of jim (electricsound), Friday, 24 January 2003 13:13 (twenty-three years ago)

wear CK underwear, then you'll know.

(i almost typed CKY underwear...)

g-kit (g-kit), Friday, 24 January 2003 14:46 (twenty-three years ago)

I wouldn't trade my lady-parts for *anything*.

Lara (Lara), Friday, 24 January 2003 15:11 (twenty-three years ago)

What about a really big cookie?

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 24 January 2003 16:24 (twenty-three years ago)

Or a 50% wage increase?

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 24 January 2003 16:29 (twenty-three years ago)

or to be on TV?

RJG (RJG), Friday, 24 January 2003 16:43 (twenty-three years ago)

It seems to me that there's a significant portion of transsexuals (mostly male->female) who do the whole thing based on a weird sense of gender rigidity: I read the memoirs of one such person recently, and she seemed to think that having physically become a near-woman opened up the door to all sorts of "feminine" behavior that's honestly not so unnatural for a male. (E.g. I swear to God "now I can do things like decorate my desk on Valentine's Day" or "I like doing dishes.")

nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 24 January 2003 17:21 (twenty-three years ago)

(In other words the switch of sex is sometimes used to legitimize a switch in gender.)

nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 24 January 2003 17:21 (twenty-three years ago)

You are referring to gender roles and gender norms, Nabisco?

I've a close friend who's a post-op F2M - he says now that he's "a man" he's coming to terms with emotional issues he couldn't address when he was seen as being female.

I'm Passing Open Windows (Ms Laura), Friday, 24 January 2003 17:28 (twenty-three years ago)

No! No! No!

My lady-parts are *really* nice.

Lara (Lara), Friday, 24 January 2003 17:29 (twenty-three years ago)

Jim is OTM.

No one can ever know what it's like to be "a man" or "a woman". There's more going on than how much testosterone is flooding your system. Certainly if one is socialized as female all his life, his experience of being "a man" would be different than that of someone treated as male from birth.

M, Friday, 24 January 2003 18:16 (twenty-three years ago)

We can only know how it feels to be ourselves, so I'm not persuaded by any of that.

From the conversations I've had with one M2F transsexual in particular, what Nabisco mentions, plus those who feel a kind of erotic attraction to the idea of being the other sex, are not uncommon. The one transsexual I've got to know well clearly wasn't in those categories at all, but was someone who was desperately uncomfortable and unhappy with the male aspects of their body as long as she can remember, i.e. from a very young age, and especially since the onset of puberty. She absolutely knew it was all wrong, and very horrible, and had always felt that she needed a different body.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Friday, 24 January 2003 19:50 (twenty-three years ago)

tiriesias to thread!!

mark s (mark s), Friday, 24 January 2003 23:05 (twenty-three years ago)

EWW!!!

nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 24 January 2003 23:16 (twenty-three years ago)

> EWW!!!

?

I'm Passing Open Windows (Ms Laura), Friday, 24 January 2003 23:29 (twenty-three years ago)

perhaps we can't know what it's like to be "a woman" or "a man", but we can definitely know what its like to be treated by what other people assume about our genders.

di smith (lucylurex), Saturday, 25 January 2003 03:31 (twenty-three years ago)

I saw this documentary once about these boy twins, and after birth one of them had a botched circumcision that cut his penis off. The doctor had the bright idea to give the baby a sex change and have the parents bring it up as a girl. The girl was very disturbed emotionally and became a drug addict. She eventually got a sex change back to being a man many years later, and was destroyed when he discovered that he was actually born a male. I don't know if you can say any even can *ruin* a person's life, but this story was deeply sad; I can't imagine going through what he did.

The follow-up was the doctor was trying to make this some big case for himself, to prove his theories, etc., and it turned out he was totally wrong. I think the mother ended up committing suicide, too.

Sean (Sean), Saturday, 25 January 2003 03:41 (twenty-three years ago)

Actually it was one of the most depressing films I've ever seen, I wish I hadn't remembered it.

Sean (Sean), Saturday, 25 January 2003 03:50 (twenty-three years ago)

the one on the one I saw was depressing...she had three kids before she decided she was sure she was transsexual and those kids...they lost their mum...but she didn't die...now they have this guy called michael...which is fine...but no mum...and two of them have accepted it but hurt a little and the other refused to be photographed for the programme and was very bitter about it.

the michael also said that [s]he went to one of h[er/is] daughters' plays at college and walked up to her father [her "other dad"] in the queue and chatted away to him and the dude didn't recognise michael and asked the daughter later "who was that guy??" and he had been married to h[er/im] for seven years and michael was recounting it and laughing with tears of more than one kind, it seemed.

RJG (RJG), Saturday, 25 January 2003 03:55 (twenty-three years ago)

I've an aunt (by marriage) who used to be my uncle - hard for my cousin to go through, but she wrote about about the experience (er, my cousin, that is) and is making money and coming to terms with things. I've several friends who are transsexual, both pre- and post-op - some of the strongest, most wonderful people that I know. And they've had to make some of the most difficult decisions that can be made - I've great respect for them.

I'm Passing Open Windows (Ms Laura), Saturday, 25 January 2003 04:50 (twenty-three years ago)

My ex-boyfriend's father's accountant is a transsexual.

She (born 'he') does a great line in floral shirt-waisters.

Lara (Lara), Saturday, 25 January 2003 18:38 (twenty-three years ago)

seven years pass...

"There are visible bits of evidence that 2010 will be remembered as the year of the transsexual. "

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/09/fashion/09TRANS.html?hp

buzza, Wednesday, 8 December 2010 23:27 (fifteen years ago)

whoa Franco!

Stop Non-Erotic Cabaret (Abbbottt), Wednesday, 8 December 2010 23:53 (fifteen years ago)

I know several trans-people. They tend to be either really cool or like super weird. Just like anyone really

Tilda Swinton Wreck Up A Dread Dub (admrl), Wednesday, 8 December 2010 23:56 (fifteen years ago)

ten months pass...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/10/california-transgender-laws_n_1004109.html

Big ups.

turfin' bird (The Reverend), Tuesday, 11 October 2011 23:55 (fourteen years ago)


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