Teenage Female Body Image...

I'm all in favour of athletic role models for women, though. I've been pointing out for years that the bodies of male athletes are generally not far from the ideal for men, but that is far from the truth for women, so if the Williams sisters popularise anderoticise strength and fitness, this can only be good. I say that not so much wishing for a replacement paradigm, but hoping for an expansion of the accepted range.

Another obvious point, but one worth making: a woman a stone overweight gets a far harder time because of it than a man who is three times as overweight.

I think this gets inculcated in grammar and high school, where we associate certain traits with athletes and others with bookish types. Although I'm aware it's never too late to change my activities and attitudes, I often wonder (with considerable anger) why I decided certain activities weren't "for me" and I can trace it quite clearly to a particular time in my life between the ages of 10 and 16 or so.

this is fucking ridiculous. its just fucking ridiculous. and i find this article quite hard to believe, as it was only about 7 years ago that me and almost every other girl at high school were seriously restricting our food intake. and i think the "athletic" ideal of femininity can be just as harmful as heroin chic. sure, it's healthier, but that doesn't mean it ain't psychologically damaging.

they are there, there is resistance. we don't all have the same attitudes towards body image.

but why the psychological issues?

you answered those questions yourself in your post, "I understand that concepts of the ideal female form are thrown at us more often than those of the male", and "I understand that to a certain extent the feminine qualities our society teaches young girls emphasize personal image moreso than with males".

I also fume at the government guidelines about appropriate weight based on height and age. Accodring to them, my ideal weight is about 154 lbs. When I weighed that (in a starvation attempt to make an unsympathetic physician happy) I looked like walking death. When I say I am full-figured, I mean that I've broad shoulders, semi-broad hips, a waist, and full and strong legs and arms. I am content with my weight and appearance, now, and to hell with the government charts - I've low cholesterol, am in no danger of diabetes, have low blood pressure, and am quite fit. According to the charts I should loose 35 lbs. My doctor advises against that, say I am at an excellent weight and fitness level just where I am. He also says that if I somehow achieved this perfect weight, he'd be treating me for malnutrition, being underweight, and so forth.

I am curious to know just how the government determines these appropriate weights and what facts are used and what are disregarded.

I am all for a mental image away from "weight" and toward being fit and healthy and happy. In fact, when I see someone slended, my immediate desire is to take them hom, tuck them into bed, and feed and nurture them until they are healthy, heavier, and not looking like walking death.

P.S. fuck those people.

if this point had come up on the Shania Twain thread there've been fireworks

And there is a strong societal equavalence of "thin" = "desirable/beautiful". Look at all of those list of "beautiful people" that show-up in tabeloid mags - how many of the females look to be at a healthy weight? How many look like they starve themselves? And then look at the men - some are slender, true, but there is much more acceptance about different body shapes for males than there is for females. (Of course, I could go off on a tirade about men being allowed to age and women being told they must stay young, but I shan't.)

I am so proud of these young women who are comfortable with themselves. I do hope that they learn to equate positive body image with being healthy (exercise and eating right), but I think that is something that comes with age and an awareness of mortality.

I got a kick out of the quote from the article about "These girls no longer see their bodies as tools for wooing men." I mean, does this mean that these girls think that men might be attracted to them for something other than their size? Or that the've no concern about attracting men at all, prefering the company of women? Does this mean that men will have to start wooing? (And why wasn't I told that I was supposed to use my body to woo men? I always used the brain thing, instead.) But, does this quote represent an advancement toward the balancing of things between the genders?

And girls definitely see their bodies as tools for wooing men. At least the ones I know. It's just that they think they can "woo men" by showing their chests and stomachs and legs, not by hiding the non-bony bits.

Ill never fall for such a foolish trick again

Nah. We just wait around and let you come to us like always.

Im not being a prick just want to know why people can look and discuss issues while ignoring half the debate, or are these questions not relevant? Men like curvy women so the real skinny thing I just dont get, women seem to be their own worst eneimes at times- re womens magazines. Help Im confused.

>Nah. We just wait around and let you come to us like always.

*choking* So that's why men are always complaining about not gettting laid enough? Thanks for helping me finally understand the phenomenon *grin*

because rigid theories of gender difference don't account for the multitude of ways women can be women, or the multitude of ways men can be men. theories of gender difference too often lend themselves to essentialism, where women "are" or "must be" feminine, etc, which real people often find it hard to relate to.

I prefer women (and men) who are meatier rather than slenderer (sorry, but the word works here) for sexual partners - that's a personal preference. But what I think of as being attractive and/or beautiful is much broader than that base - I might find someone skinny to be beautiful as a friend without feeling sexual desire for them.

What I meant when I typed the stuff about gender balancing (and trust me, I thought for some time about how to phrase such an issue), was that I was happy to hear that some of these young women have finally broken through that stereotype that men are only interested in women who have enticing bodies...instead of men being interested in women for other reasons (intelligence, common interests, etc.)

Of course, there is also the point that, realistically, 99% of women (I'm making that statistic up, but I think it's relevant) would not have difficulty finding a sexual partner at any time - whereas men frequently say that it's difficult to find a sexual partner (this statement is based on conversations with men, and many not be completely representative, likewise, I'd like to emphasize the "sexual partner" as opposed to someone to fall in love with, raise children with, etc.)

Also, I do wonder if the arguments that men are visually stimulated whereas females are stimulated by other things might have something to do with all of this (though, as a female, I am voyeuristic, so maybe that's just an old wives tale).

But I am getting off topic here - basically, I was trying to say that these women are more interested in being comfortable with themselves as opposed to looking toward how other's think of them (but the fact that these clothing lines are just larger sizes of what is considered "trendy" does show that they seem to want to fit-in in that arena).

You said that men like curvy women - I'd disagree with this generalization, because we all have our different taste. And what might be originally considered to be eye-catching (skiny, curvey, whatever) might not remain stimulating once you get to know the person (while I might be turned-on by some muscular stud, ultimately, I am going to be aroused longer and deeper by someone who can stimulate my mind, regardless of their appearance).

Also, I do not disagree that women seem to be their own worst enemies, sometimes - the example of fashion magazines being one example of this (though I've heard it argued that women's fashions are mostly determined by gay men who are looking to create female versions of the lithe, slender young male - I don't know how accurate that is).

Ultimately, I am glad to hear that these young women are making their own rules and finding a new way to self-identity and happiness, regardless of the societal opinions.

It sounds like total bunk, but entertaining bunk...Suzy, your reckoning please?

They're not really that bad though. Yeah the women in them are skinny but I don't know anyone who wants to look like a fashion model, or thinks it's very possible, or thinks it's some kind of standart. Maybe they think it but say otherwise.

I think that, like it or not, comfortable with it or not, women of a certain age are affected by the so-called ideals professed in women's mags., schlock romances, and so forth. (When was the last time you read a romance where the heroine was described as having anything less than pert breasts, a narrow waist, and no sweat glands?) (Of course, the heroes also have idealized bodies, too, but I don't see women holding men to that ideal, and nor do I see men holding themselves to that image - maybe they are unaware of it, or maybe they just don't give a damn, or maybe they do give a damn but won't admit to it.)

A related argument I've heard is that most designers (not just gay males) tend to mostly associate with models (who of course have the model build as a job requirement) and fashionistas (who more often than not have or are striving to attain model-like figures), and therefore their idea of what women are like is severely limited.

-- electric sound of jim (electricsoun...), January 25th, 2003.

being thin does not automatically mean 'frail and loony and in need of mothering.'

http://www.nymag.com/daily/fashion/2012/03/mom-reacts-vogues-fat-7-year-old-girl-story.html?imw=

“I stopped letting her enjoy Pizza Fridays when she admitted to adding a corn salad as a side dish one week. I dressed down a Starbucks barista when he professed ignorance of the nutrition content of the kids’ hot chocolate whose calories are listed as “120–210” on the menu board: Well, which is it? When he couldn’t provide an answer, I dramatically grabbed the drink out of my daughter’s hands, poured it into the garbage, and stormed out.”

'i mean, she still ate pizza on fridays. but she stopped enjoying it. i made sure of that.'