"They Have No People Skills Whatsoever"

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I hear people dsescribing others in this way more and more. Do you think that it is a lazy catch-all to describe a multitude of different negative traits, which used to be described separately (and more helpfully)?

― MarkH (MarkH), Wednesday, 29 January 2003 08:16 (twenty-three years ago)

have pity on the socially inept. its not easy.

― di smith (lucylurex), Wednesday, 29 January 2003 09:45 (twenty-three years ago)

(that isn't directed at you markH)

― di smith (lucylurex), Wednesday, 29 January 2003 09:46 (twenty-three years ago)

I think there are actually more ppl around now who fit this description, which is usually a euphimism for passive-aggressive disorder, whether or not it's a sane response to an increasingly difficult world I don't know but IME it seems to do with the ballooning percentage of ppl who have been brought up solely by their mothers. OK flame on

― dave q, Wednesday, 29 January 2003 10:05 (twenty-three years ago)

I thought this was going to be another thread about ILM

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Wednesday, 29 January 2003 10:10 (twenty-three years ago)

this description? that's just it Dave Q, there isn't a consensus on what *this* is. I'm not even sure that "passive-aggressive disorder" is a neat category that you unarbitrarily package ppl in and say without doubt that person x has the disorder whilst person y does not.

But I find your argument intriguing and I'm open to the possibility that I'm wrong. First off, let's have a detailed description of the symptoms of passive-aggressive disorder please.

― MarkH (MarkH), Wednesday, 29 January 2003 10:19 (twenty-three years ago)

I do say this sometimes. I use it about people who maybe don't communicate at all, or do so in non sequiturs and mutters, or who behave inappropriately in social situations, who are tactless or perhaps just obsessed with themselves so can't talk with others constructively. Quite a few of the people I've said it about later turned out to have Aspergers or at least to be creeping up the autistic spectrum. It SEEMS to me less offensive to say 'no people skills' than 'rude' or 'embarassing' or whatever, but maybe that's wrong.

I don't know anything about passive-aggressive disorder.

― Archel (Archel), Wednesday, 29 January 2003 10:21 (twenty-three years ago)

I think there's a real need to identify what we can be objective about and what we can't. What's considered rude and embarrassing is to some extent governed by cultural context. Aspergers is presumably a medical condition that can be treated (or can be potentially treated) and as such can't be governed by cultural context - to be medical it must exist regardless of where ppl find themselves. That's why I think it's so important that we don't use expressions like "no people skills". I think we can all agree there's a difference between teaching ppl manners and pointing out "that's not how we do things round here" and realising that they have a medical problem that should be treated and that we should make allowances for how they are until (and indeed while) we offer that treatment.

― MarkH (MarkH), Wednesday, 29 January 2003 10:29 (twenty-three years ago)

i don't got any, yo.

it may not be dirty, but it's still a euphemism. i'd rather be called anti-social, straight up.

― g-kit (g-kit), Wednesday, 29 January 2003 10:30 (twenty-three years ago)

'Non sequiturs, mutters, tactless, self-obsessed' - yeah that sums it up, plus other things. Ppl who talk about what's going on in their own head ("This morning I was feeling kind of...like I was on Saturday, except not so intense...better than I usually do this time of day tho...ever get that?" aaargh) exclusively

'Passive-aggressive', those ppl who always fuck u up by being late or sick or incapable or forgetful, and they really didn't mean to fuck u up, honest, they're just "bad with [names/dates/DIY/money/EVERYTHING! I REALLY hate chronic self-deprecators, the worst recently was somebody who 'forgot' how long they've owed me money because, get this - "Man, I'm so shit with 'months', I keep forgetting what order they're in"!!!] Apparently at the root of this disorder is a chronic fear of any overt confrontation, so when you ask somebody to do something instead of saying 'fuck off' or something they'll go 'yeah OK' and just not do it. I have called ppl on this, and not being as brutal IRL as here I get some answers, sometimes. "Well I really wasn't into doing it, but I thought you'd get angry" is a big one. [Actually it isn't so much dislike of confrontation as dislike of being seen to instigate one, they like to drag ass until you explode and then they congratulate themselves that once more they're being picked on, you're the villain etc)

As for the nurture thing - purely anecdotal but in the cases of the most wretched examples of these I have often been told by the person themself that they were raised by their mother, all confrontation discouraged or else linked in their minds w/ domestic violence so VERBOTEN, not to mention being told that all men are bastards all through their childhoods, etc. (This doesn't apply to everyone from single-mom households of course - girls usually do alright wherever they come from for some weird reason) So I suppose these guys figure that ostensibly 'masculine' traits [eg having plans and forethought in life, ability to see past your own goddam nose occasionally and saying what you actually mean to convey (conversely, accepting other ppl's words at face value at times,not to the extent of being a gullible fool but not reading convoluted psychological plots into every fucking thing everybody says)] should be shunned along with drunken wife-beating etc.

― dave q, Wednesday, 29 January 2003 10:45 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm like way OT aren't I? 'No social skills' = Asperger ppl who might be a bit difficult at first but usually worth the while, whereas passive-aggressive types have all the social skills in the world - for the first week or so you know them, after that you just wish they'd be blown up in a nuclear accident

― dave q, Wednesday, 29 January 2003 10:47 (twenty-three years ago)

oh, but isn't "person X has no people skills whatsoever" really another way of saying that "person X has no people skills whatsoever around the people with whom he/she must interact"? or, more to the point -- that maybe person X ain't so personable because he/she is stuck being around a bunch of annoying and/or malignant assholes with whom one doesn't really want to interact? in which case the problem isn't with person X -- it's with the people with whom person X doesn't want to be around.

... or maybe that's just a reflection of some of the people with whom i've had to work (classic Freudian projection) ...

― Tad (llamasfur), Wednesday, 29 January 2003 11:01 (twenty-three years ago)

more in this vein -- i'm fascinated by the fact that some people believe that they and their lives are so fascinating that anyone who isn't fascinated by, say, their hangnails or their bratty kids or where they went to school or what arcane tasks they can do or what their sexual kinks are must have a "problem." or that the "problem" isn't that such beings as fascinating as they are, are really just tiresome bores and some people aren't as tactful in brushing them off as others are.

i mean, such a belief that one is "fascinating" might get some people through life. but that doesn't mean that random acquaintances should give a rat's ass.

― Tad (llamasfur), Wednesday, 29 January 2003 11:24 (twenty-three years ago)

(last post here i promise! [at least till someone else pipes up])

none of the foregoing should be construed as an attack on any ILXor, or particular poster on this thread. i wouldn't spend so much time hereabouts if i thought ILXors were tiresome bores!

― Tad (llamasfur), Wednesday, 29 January 2003 11:27 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't think "being boring" can really be included on account of its extreme subjectivity. One person can regard hearing about something they know nothing about as a learning experience which will prepare them for situations in the future when they might be required to display a knowledge of the subject whereas another might think "I did all my learning at school ta very much" and be completely unwilling to listen to anyone who is talking about things which they do not actually consider interesting.

No, being boring shouldn't be included, but recognising the visual and verbal cues that indicate that the listener is bored certainly should be! I think anyone who can't recognise these cues may well be described as having no people skills, tho their real prolem would of course remain undiagnosed.

― MarkH (MarkH), Wednesday, 29 January 2003 11:32 (twenty-three years ago)

Yes, recognising cues and understanding unspoken things is key. I think there are people who aren't very good at doing this who are not in any way autistic though, and what do we name it if not 'poor people skills'? However, saying someone has no people skills is obviously much more of a value judgement that saying they have no 'maths skills' or 'verbal skills', precisely because its something that can't be taught and yet is considered so important in most life situations.

― Archel (Archel), Wednesday, 29 January 2003 11:42 (twenty-three years ago)

I think 'people skills' can be taught, but mostly by example.

― suzy (suzy), Wednesday, 29 January 2003 11:44 (twenty-three years ago)

I think that some people with Autistic Spectrum Disorders could be said to have no people skills, in that they have very little understanding of the social skills that come naturally and instinctively to most people. The way of reading body langauge, knowing when people are bored, upset, and all that, has to be learnt by someone with ASD.

But, I do think that there are some people without ASD who just are pretty crap around others. Working in a shop, I am often on the receiving end of boring people who tell boring tales that bore me so desperately I want to chew my arm off. Not every person who does this can have ASD, surely? I think that perhaps these people know they're boring, but they don't care. They're selfish, or self-centred, in that they just want to have their say. I think ASD people are selfish, but in a pure way. They literally cannot put themself in another's place. Boring, rude people can, but they just can't be bothered to. I just thought about this now, so I am fully prepared for it to be all wrong.

My brother has Asperger's Syndrome, and we have taught him 'people skills', for example, when he bangs on about some band I've never heard of I have to say "Imagine if I was telling you about an interest of mine that you found dull, how would you feel?" It's odd teaching people things that are instinctive to others.

― Madeleine (Madeleine), Wednesday, 29 January 2003 11:53 (twenty-three years ago)

it works the other way, incidentally, in that sometimes ppl have such a fear that others might find them boring that they never talk at length about anything, which makes them very quiet. In being quiet, they appear rude. In appearing rude, they become subject to accusations of having no people skills! Which comes back to my original point - it must be a pretty nebulous term if it can be applied to people who are polar opposites.

― MarkH (MarkH), Wednesday, 29 January 2003 12:01 (twenty-three years ago)

I think 'people skills' can be taught, but mostly by example.

Right, anything can be learned by paying attention. For example that there is no such thing as "normal behaviour" - a simple fact that people who are proud of their people skills tend to forget.

― jot eff pe, Wednesday, 29 January 2003 12:29 (twenty-three years ago)

one year passes...

Train snatcher's loco, says shrink

BY SCOTT SHIFREL
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER

Serial subway impostor Darius McCollum says he's no criminal - just crazy for trains.

After 20 arrests for commandeering trains in the subways and other transit-related offenses, a psychiatrist backs McCollum's claims that he cannot control his bizarre trains-gressions.

"Mr. McCollum has no understanding of the consequences of his actions and has no perception of his behaviors being wrong," says a psychiatric report obtained by the Daily News. "He [has] no insight into the cause of his behaviors and does not have a concept of guilt for his behavior."

McCollum's lawyer hopes the report, which says McCollum has Asperger's Syndrome, prompts prosecutors to drop charges at a hearing slated for Queens Supreme Court today.

Asperger's, a disorder similar to autism, has symptoms that include impaired social interaction and "restricted and repetitive patterns of behavior."

In other words, McCollum contends, he cannot stop himself from taking trains.

"This is a psychological explanation for his conduct," defense lawyer Stephen Jackson said. "He did not know right from wrong."

McCollum, 39, faces 15 years for allegedly trying to steal a 60-ton locomotive from the Long Island Rail Road's Hoban Yards in June. The Queens native's extensive knowledge of the city's transit system has enabled him to fool passengers and rail workers for years. He told cops after his latest arrest he was trying to learn how to drive a Bombardier M-7 engine.

In 2001, a Manhattan judge dismissed similar claims and sentenced McCollum to two years in prison. His lawyer hopes the new report will help Queens prosecutors reach a different conclusion this time.

"Darius won't get any better until he gets professional help," said his mom, Elizabeth. "Prison won't help. He's got to be somewhere where he can learn what he does is wrong."

― You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Thursday, 9 September 2004 11:02 (twenty-one years ago)

TRAINS-gressions???? good grief...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Thursday, 9 September 2004 11:06 (twenty-one years ago)

"Darius won't get any better until he gets professional help"

Mrs Danesh is SO harsh.

― B.A.R.M.S. (Barima), Thursday, 9 September 2004 11:23 (twenty-one years ago)

TRAINS-gressions???? good grief...

Indeed. I audibly groaned when I read that...

― Andrew (enneff), Thursday, 9 September 2004 11:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Tracer, you and I are starting a band called the Trains-Gressions.

― TOMBOT, Thursday, 9 September 2004 12:31 (twenty-one years ago)

we can play traince

― You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Thursday, 9 September 2004 12:42 (twenty-one years ago)

In other words, McCollum contends, he cannot stop himself from taking trains.

Can't they just hire the guy?

― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Thursday, 9 September 2004 22:11 (twenty-one years ago)

He be jumping someone elses train.

― Trayce (trayce), Thursday, 9 September 2004 22:15 (twenty-one years ago)

40 Trains

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 9 September 2004 22:29 (twenty-one years ago)

He wouldn't need any training.

― Trouble Hand, Thursday, 9 September 2004 22:35 (twenty-one years ago)

What worries me sometimes is the people that presume to have 'people skills' - shades of David Brent in The Office.

― Bob Six (bobbysix), Friday, 10 September 2004 07:55 (twenty-one years ago)

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