I'm bored, someone explain theoretical physics to me...

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No, really. With all these mathematicians and engineers and science types floating around ILX, you've got to have some tales to share.

I don't need complex explanations, I just need those sort of things that professors tell their freshman classes to blow their minds and make them think science or maths or whatever is COOL. Black holes and superstrings and molecular biology and how the bumblebee's flight is theoretically impossible and those sorts of aphorisms.

Extra points for any linked pictures from Astronomy Picture Of The Day (Or the scientific equivalent of kittens)

Go on, then...

kate, Wednesday, 26 February 2003 08:25 (twenty-three years ago)

cool hardcore research papers from the MIT center for theoretical physics:

warning: it will break yr brane

"time from the beginning" is interesting even if the math is a bit hard to work out

geeta (geeta), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 08:39 (twenty-three years ago)

Oh, yay, I'm off to have my brane broken now! Woo!

kate, Wednesday, 26 February 2003 09:03 (twenty-three years ago)

Just picked up 'The Edge Of Physics' special edition of Scientific American. All wormholes and frozen light and antimatter and unification theory. Haven't read yet but the pictures and graphs are. so. cool.

Andy, Wednesday, 26 February 2003 09:04 (twenty-three years ago)

Reason for asking is I fell asleep last night reading a Haruki Marakumi (sp?) novel last night which has this whole subtext about neuroscience and left brain-right brain separation and crazy science/biotechnology in it, and WOW! I need to brake my brane more often cause it sure gives me neat dreams.

kate, Wednesday, 26 February 2003 09:11 (twenty-three years ago)

It's this thing, you know. Where some things are a bit like other things.

Ed (dali), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 09:11 (twenty-three years ago)

Sorry. RickyT to thread.

Ed (dali), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 09:12 (twenty-three years ago)

(that's the best murakami novel imho.)

ppl keep dropping stuff into conversations round here like "if you integrate round the boundary of string theory then you get quantum field theory". i can never remember the precise statements though.

some notes by a friend of mine that are supposed to be pretty good:

http://math.berkeley.edu/~barnard/tex/getpdf.cgi?qft

if you get past the integral signs on page 4 there's some nice historical stuff, anyway.

toby (tsg20), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 09:26 (twenty-three years ago)

Long complicated theses are great, but, erm, I'm at work here! I need 30 second soundbites to make me go "wow!"

kate, Wednesday, 26 February 2003 10:06 (twenty-three years ago)

''Reason for asking is I fell asleep last night reading a Haruki Marakumi (sp?) novel last night which has this whole subtext about neuroscience and left brain-right brain separation and crazy science/biotechnology in it, and WOW! I need to brake my brane more often cause it sure gives me neat dreams.''

what's the name of it?

sounds quite similar to PKD's 'A scanner darkly'

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 10:28 (twenty-three years ago)

hard boiled wonderland and the end of the world, i think. and it whips a scanner darkly, which i thought was pretty rub (actually i don't like the murakami that much either).

toby (tsg20), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 10:32 (twenty-three years ago)

A scanner darkly is absolutely wonderful really. One of his finest books. I've only read murakami's 'Wind-up bird' and that was OK.

why didn't you like it?

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 10:39 (twenty-three years ago)

SSSHHHHH!!! Don't tell me any more! I don't want to know! I've only just figured out what The End Of The World is and I don't want it ruined for me!

Who wrote Scanner Darkly? Is that William Gibson? Don't think I like Gibson, for some reason, never seem able to get more than 4 pages into any of his books, though I've not tried lately.

Hard Boiled Wonderland is AMAZING so far. Wish I could do that accounting thing where he separates the two hemispheres of his brain so he can tabulate more quickly, that would be REALLY useful around here!

kate, Wednesday, 26 February 2003 10:45 (twenty-three years ago)

philip K dick. its a grebt novel.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 10:46 (twenty-three years ago)

Ricky T is certainly the man for this job. If he hasn't got onto it by Thursday night (I'm out tonight) I'll have a crack at a few things. No time now.

I'm going to a lecture here at UCL tomorrow on one theory of the way the brain works, known as Functionalism, so I will try to remember to report back if it's interesting. Yesterday's on Oh No! Giant Tsunamis! Oh No!* was drier than I'd expected - it had no artist's impressions or animations of NYC being overwhelmed by 500 foot tidal waves or anything, which seemed like a major lost opportunity.

* possibly not its actual title

The bumblebee thing is my second favourite scientist-proving-flight-impossible tale. One scientist 'proved' that manned flight was impossible, and the ink was barely dry on the paper when he was proved wrong. When challenged he was flustered for a moment, but rallied with "Well okay - but they'll never do it with a passenger."

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 13:16 (twenty-three years ago)

Functionalism roxor u r all gay.

(not naive functionalism obv, tho it is generally ace)

Alan (Alan), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 13:20 (twenty-three years ago)

martin did the tsunami lecture include footage of the New Year Wave?!?

(possibly the spookiest bit of film i have seen in a documentary for years)

In a very real sense we are no more than New Year Waves in the quantum foam of life....

mark s (mark s), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 13:22 (twenty-three years ago)

I prefer the theory of "Malfunctionalism"

Proof: voila ilx qed

mark s (mark s), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 13:23 (twenty-three years ago)

kate,

i read "hard-boiled..." it's grebt! I'm reading "Wind-up Bird Chronicles " right now and I love it equally. There should be a Haruki Murakami thread if there isn't one.

On to physics:

Einstein's relativity in words of four letters or less

I think the most interesting stuff going on today is complex systems theory.

here

cybernetics

cprek (cprek), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 13:54 (twenty-three years ago)

That is a great deal more than four words. Phew!

kate, Wednesday, 26 February 2003 14:14 (twenty-three years ago)

words with four letters!

cprek (cprek), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 14:15 (twenty-three years ago)

Kate, you already know about super massive fuck off black holes and how when drunk you slide into the fourth deminsion, what else is there to know?

http://www.mathmistakes.com/ may be fun and fulfill your desire.

Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 14:52 (twenty-three years ago)

oh, i just remembered a really good site for this kind of stuff.

http://www.edge.org

cprek (cprek), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 15:18 (twenty-three years ago)

Brian Greene's book on string theory is supposed to be very good.

A Cosmic Microwave Background image of the atmosphere:
http://nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov/anon_dir/cobe/images/dmr/CMB_FLUCTUATIONS_SML.JPG

Pretty Pics from the Hubble Space Telescope

Ned Wright's Cosmology Tutorial

JuliaA (j_bdules), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 15:21 (twenty-three years ago)

The following link is about the "Stadium Wave" or "Mexican Wave" seen at sporting events and other large gatherings:

Mexican Wave Theory

I'm Passing Open Windows (Ms Laura), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 22:13 (twenty-three years ago)

Mark, there were no films at all. It was extremely dull presentation, despite the spectacular subject.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 23:58 (twenty-three years ago)

So, when's all this going to pay off? worthwhile space-travel, anti-gravity, time-travel, hot midget action etc?

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 27 February 2003 00:01 (twenty-three years ago)

one year passes...
Help me understand general relativity! (If that's what I have a problem with)

Okay - I understand that in the attempt to understand gravity, Einstein had us imagine the universe in four dimensions, as a flat plane, with dense objects sinking into it. Am I okay so far? Right, now, it seems fine now to imagine that objects like the earth would roll around the sun, much like a coin put into one of those swirly charity things. But isn't this just gravity again? Hasn't he just used gravity as a metaphor for gravity? I mean, I know why things roll into dips, and around the edge of such things...gravity, surely? So, what am I missing?

Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Monday, 15 November 2004 10:38 (twenty-one years ago)

When did I start this thread? Do you know, I actually have UTTERLY NO MEMORY of starting this thread. How bizarre. Was I drunk?

It's an interesting thread, sure, but still. I'm worried about the holes I have in my memory.

The Grain of Sand in Lambeth That Satan Cannot Find (kate), Monday, 15 November 2004 10:42 (twenty-one years ago)

That's quite a screen name you got there, Kate. What's it from?

Every country has their stupid (AaronHz), Monday, 15 November 2004 11:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Kate, perhaps the holes in your memory are wormholes, transporting you into a universe where certain dodgy boybands are viewed as lustworthy ;)

Kevin, what do you mean gravity again? Einstein is demonstrating how gravity works, in an understandable, simplified, quasi-2D way - he's not saying *why* it works. Gravity is, as far as I can tell, the most difficult of the fundamental forces to explain - there was a lot of interest in the odds of a gravity particle being discovered in the next few years - the original odds of 500-1 were reduced to single figures when the bookies started taking a lot of bets on it. But we're not even close to discovering the Graviton, even if such a particle does exist.*

*I don't know very much at all about the subject so please forgive glaring inaccuracies

Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 15 November 2004 11:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, okay - I thought he was trying to explain gravity. It bugs me a lot, how do objects communicate this attraction? I dunno. Thanks Mark.

Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Monday, 15 November 2004 11:33 (twenty-one years ago)

I think it bugs legions of scientists too - it's a hole in their knowledge as much as it is in yours.

Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 15 November 2004 11:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, the nice thing about GR is that it explains gravity in terms of massive objects deforming space, with then affects other objects. So, considering GR by itself, you don't really need any communication via particles or what have you. However, this means that gravity behaves entirely differently to all the other forces in the universe, which is weird, and hence bugs yr legions of scientists.

RickyT (RickyT), Monday, 15 November 2004 11:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Don't worry, I'll figure it out, then I'll let them know. I have another problem, but now I don't think it's a problem at all - does the speed of light present any problems to the idea of a uniformly exanding universe? Like, how different points know what other points are up to? THis has bugged me for a while, but now I'm thinking it's not even remotely a problem - none of the points needs to know anything about what the others are doing. Odd, I'm sure there was a problem there somewhere. Anyway...

Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Monday, 15 November 2004 11:43 (twenty-one years ago)

The fact that time is different in parts of the universe bugs me - if a galaxy is travelling at 90% of the speed of light, then time is travelling 90% slower. So how does that affect relationships between different objects?

Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 15 November 2004 11:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Kevin, yr right tho, that metaphor of the "swirly charity things" as you so rightly put it does explain gravity in terms of gravity - it's not really a very good metaphor when you think about that example too much. but even without gravity, the curved thing works if you think in terms of "what is a straight line" on that curved surface. I'm not really on top of GR (who is?) but I think i'm right in saying that the basic idea is that the warping of space fiddles with the notion of moving in a straight line/simplest path.

Jaunty Alan (Alan), Monday, 15 November 2004 11:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Alan = OTM.

Mark, one of the main things about SR is that *nothing* can travel faster than the speed of light in any given inertial frame. This means objects can only 'communicate' at the speed of light, so any action in one that may affect a second can only be known about by the other second after an interval equivalent to the period of time required for light to reach it from the first.

RickyT (RickyT), Monday, 15 November 2004 12:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Hmm. Thanks. So will a fast-moving object have a shorter real life-span than a slower one, assumign that the universe ends at some point?

Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 15 November 2004 12:50 (twenty-one years ago)

the odd thing about SR and intertial frames is that there is no such thing as a fast-moving object. from the PoV of the objec,t i i's stationary and YOU are fast-moving.

Jaunty Alan (Alan), Monday, 15 November 2004 13:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, I guess you're right. That clears that one up spookily well!

Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 15 November 2004 13:36 (twenty-one years ago)

will a fast-moving object have a shorter real life-span than a slower one, assumign that the universe ends at some point?

Because a fast-moving object is fast only in relation to a slower one from the pov of a third object, there's no such thing as a shorter life-span either. The universe doesn't end at some point - the universe has no boundary because it is the sum of everything.

It is expanding, though. Imagine that the universe could be plotted on the skin of a balloon (and in the 3D space enclosed by the balloon). Inflate the balloon a bit and everything gets further away from each other. But the distances between points can only be expressed as the relationship between the points.

Is that analogous?

beanz (beanz), Monday, 15 November 2004 14:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, the universe may end at some point in time (I take it that that's the kind of point Mark was meaning, not a point in space) - we don't know yet, and how such an end happened would affect how that 'point in time' phrase that I slipped in there could or couldn't work. Mark, the fundamental problem is with your 'real life-span' - that assumes some objective baseline from which such a thing could be measured. Yes, if something is travelling at a different speed from some observer, the two time frames are moving at different paces, and there is a difference, but it's a relative difference - neither is an objective baseline against which the other can be compared.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 13:22 (twenty-one years ago)

That's quite a screen name you got there, Kate. What's it from?

Nevermind, just found it in Blake on a hunch.

Every country has their stupid (AaronHz), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 13:25 (twenty-one years ago)

seven months pass...
Yay. What a great thread this was. I just searched "bored at work" and this cheered me right up.

MIS Information (kate), Monday, 27 June 2005 08:08 (twenty years ago)

My god, even ILX is boring me today. I suppose I have no choice but to go and find some work to do. Maybe I'll pester the IT guys to see when I'm going to get mine own laptop and email and stuff. And the latest versions of Crystal Reports and the like. Sigh.

MIS Information (kate), Monday, 27 June 2005 08:15 (twenty years ago)

Crystal Reports is the work of Satan. And not in a good way.

Tech Support Droid, Monday, 27 June 2005 08:22 (twenty years ago)

Well, compared to the inbuilt reporting tools of loads of the lamer databases I've been using, it's heaven in SQL code. But still.

MIS Information (kate), Monday, 27 June 2005 08:24 (twenty years ago)

anyone still curious should read "relativity simply explained" by martin gardner. i'm reading the brian greene books right now, and he doesn't do as good of a job of explaining relativity as gardner does. so i'm worried about my understanding of string theory, which is entirely up to greene at this point.

fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Monday, 27 June 2005 08:39 (twenty years ago)

Well, yes, but it's hell to support. For example: on *one* machine I have to look after, switching from an NT4 domain to a Windows 2003 domain completely broke *everything* that used Crystal.* None of the other machines on the network had the problem, though, just one of them. On another machine that's playing up at the moment, one application that uses Crystal for reporting refuses to run any reports, because Crystal complains that it can't open the database of a *completely unrelated* app.** Aaargh!

* which is a lot of things, because most of the applications we have that are front-ends to databases use Crystal for their built-in reporting. And this particular machine was in the accounts department, so had a copy of every single one of these apps in order to run their accounting reports.

** yes, I know that this is an installation thing, and if we'd wiped the machine from scratch and reinstalled it on a blank disk then it would work. Hopefully.

Tech Support Droid, Monday, 27 June 2005 08:39 (twenty years ago)

Oh no, is the joy that awaits me? Fortunately, I'm MI not IT so I don't have to go digging around through anyone's PCs, I just ring C1tr1x and they have to sort it out.

Brian Greene? As in the Elegant Universe? A lovely book, I just finished it last week. Is there another one? Someone told me there was.

I'm fine with relativity, it's got to the point where it's become second nature to me. (Funny, the first time I read Hawking it went straight over my head, but 5 years later, it seemed almost obvious.) I'm one of those dummies who can't think about Quantum Theory without getting dizzy, though.

String theory just makes me happy because of the idea of extra curled up dimensions. It seems either better explained or easier to get my head around than Quantum Theory.

Quantum Mechanics is one of those things where it seems almost like I have to take my brain out of my head and wrap it physically around the idea, like trying to stretch a condom around a basketball, I can just about hold it in my head if I try really hard, but then it just slips away from me the moment I stop concentrating.

Ah yes, The Fabric of the Cosmos: Space, Time, and the Texture of Reality I need to read that now.

MIS Information (kate), Monday, 27 June 2005 08:54 (twenty years ago)

douglas hofstadter has a good essay about the uncertainty principle in "metamagical themas" that helped me understand quantum mechanics better. but even brian greene says nobody intuitively understands it.

fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Monday, 27 June 2005 16:38 (twenty years ago)

Theoretical physics says you actually can wrap your mind around the universe.

Aimless (Aimless), Monday, 27 June 2005 17:04 (twenty years ago)

Yes, but I can only wrap my mind around the universe bit composed of 9th dimensions Calabai-Yau spaces!

MIS Information (kate), Tuesday, 28 June 2005 06:36 (twenty years ago)

The thing about QM is that the maths makes it easier to understand. Trying to think about it in a concrete fashion is hard until you have developed some sort of intuition about it, and the only way to do that is to grind through a lot of maths.

RickyT (RickyT), Tuesday, 28 June 2005 09:51 (twenty years ago)

Sometimes I think that the maths actually generates the theory. Like with this "nine space dimensions and one time dimension is the only way that superstring theory will work!!!" theory - I want to say "but how do you know that that isn't an artefact of your maths all being in decimal, and if you did the calculations in base 16 or something, there would "fifteen space dimensions and one time dimension!!!".

But I know that they are cleverer than me and have probably already thought through that. :-(

(Can you tell I'm just frustrated cause they haven't let me at the hyper-dimensional data cubes yet?)

MIS Information (kate), Tuesday, 28 June 2005 09:58 (twenty years ago)

sadly the underlying patterns of arithmetic to not alter when you change the number base

it is one of the tragedies of my our existence

mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 28 June 2005 10:01 (twenty years ago)

OK, so maybe it's not because you have changed the underlying number base... but the only reason we use decimal is because we have ten fingers. What if the First Mathematicians were chimpanzees and could count on their toes as well? Would chimp maths be in the Base 20? And then for chimps there would be NINETEEN SPACE DIMENSIONS!!! N-N-N-N-NINETEEN! NINETEEN!!!

MIS Information (kate), Tuesday, 28 June 2005 10:07 (twenty years ago)

19 in base 20 = 29 in base 10!!

FUCK YOU EINSTEIN!!

mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 28 June 2005 10:14 (twenty years ago)

Hey, please leave me with my delusions that chimps have better maths. It's less confusing than the mens' fashion thread.

MIS Information (kate), Tuesday, 28 June 2005 10:17 (twenty years ago)

http://www.digitales.com.au/i/Ace%20Monkey

MIS Information (kate), Tuesday, 28 June 2005 10:19 (twenty years ago)


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