WOMEN: Do you go for men who'll look after you?

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Or would you rather have a man who needs looking after?

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 20:48 (twenty-three years ago)

So much for reciprocity.

― Amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 20:49 (twenty-three years ago)

nick, did you just take a cosmo survey?

― jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 20:50 (twenty-three years ago)

Better yet, could you please design a cosmo-esque survey for us to take so we can find out if that's what we're into or not? I mean, how else would I know?

― Sarah McLusky (coco), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 20:52 (twenty-three years ago)

Will you please answer my question in the correct binary fashion.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 20:53 (twenty-three years ago)

(100111 spoiler)

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 20:54 (twenty-three years ago)

I used to design the Cosmo survey for cosmomag.com. It was grate because it would total it all up for you. They changed their site though, it sucks now.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 20:55 (twenty-three years ago)

Ok, if You won't do it, then I guess I'll have to start it out.

1. You are going on a date tonight with a REALLY hot guy. Do you wear:
a - Your hot sexy thang red dress with heels
b - A Sunday church dress
c - Your sweats...?

― Sarah mcLusky (coco), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 20:58 (twenty-three years ago)

how about a man who'll leave me alone? (....happy single people shouldn't answer this thread i guess)

― Maria (Maria), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 21:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I like to be looked after in some respects. My bf cooks me dinner and gives me massages, but he doesn't support me financially or anything. We take turns paying for meals out and utility bills and what-not. I think everyone feels that need to be taken care of sometimes, especially on a particularly low day or when feeling v. sick. Tuck me in with soup and meds!

― Sarah McLUsky (coco), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 21:36 (twenty-three years ago)

IMPORTANT CLARIFICATION OF QUESTION:

I guess I really meant which impression is likely to attract you most in a prospective new partner:

Confident, strong (not necessarily physically) man

or,

Man who maybe seems a bit lost or difficult

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 21:41 (twenty-three years ago)

the first, i'd feel less likely to lose myself.

― Maria (Maria), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 21:42 (twenty-three years ago)

number 1 for sure. I like men who can fix my car when it breaks.

― That Girl (thatgirl), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 21:44 (twenty-three years ago)

Sounds like Nick is looking for a date.

― oops (Oops), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 21:44 (twenty-three years ago)

I am not!

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 21:45 (twenty-three years ago)

such a quick and decisive denial...you know what that means

― oops (Oops), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 21:47 (twenty-three years ago)

Yes, all fuck me now.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 21:47 (twenty-three years ago)

(obv if I was the former type I'd say 'I'll fuck you all now', though I guess there's a fine line between being confident and strong and being a rapist with multiple bionic penises)

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 21:49 (twenty-three years ago)

N., Are you hoping someone will say, "Bring on the difficult ones!"?

― Sarah McLUsky (coco), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 21:49 (twenty-three years ago)

Anyway, this thread really has nothing to do with me. It's for WOMEN (see title).

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 21:50 (twenty-three years ago)

nick, you contradict yourself

― jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 21:51 (twenty-three years ago)

Yes yes.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 21:58 (twenty-three years ago)

aw shoot...I was just teasin' ya, little fella

― oops (Oops), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 22:02 (twenty-three years ago)

Yes, I'm very upset. ANYWAY on with the answers to the question.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 22:06 (twenty-three years ago)

Stop picking on Nick, this is an excellent question.

― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 22:09 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't really think it's that excellent, but I think it's far to say that it's a good way of dividing women. (a possibly better way is bigamy)

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 22:12 (twenty-three years ago)

(and yes I guess that most women would go for option 1, though possibly among the indie crowd the difference might not be so great or it might even be reversed). I'm also interested in whether mentally unstable women are more likely to go for the latter.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 22:15 (twenty-three years ago)

Confident, strong (not necessarily physically) man
Man who maybe seems a bit lost or difficult

Do I have to choose? I think I prefer people who aren't 100% self-actualized. They're just more interesting.

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 22:15 (twenty-three years ago)

As I said, I was talking about first impressions, initial 'this-guy-might-have-potential' thoughts. Broad brush strokes, I know.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 22:16 (twenty-three years ago)

I just fear that the results of this survey will necessitate a costly personality reversal.

― Amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 22:16 (twenty-three years ago)

ps. what does self-actualized mean?

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 22:17 (twenty-three years ago)

it's the 4th or 5th stage on Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs

(or I dunno)

― jel -- (jel), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 22:18 (twenty-three years ago)

do you have to be a woman to answer this thread?

― RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 22:19 (twenty-three years ago)

No, you're allowed too.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 22:19 (twenty-three years ago)

no you can also be gay RJG.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 22:19 (twenty-three years ago)

thank you.

― RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 22:20 (twenty-three years ago)

I too think it's a good question, I just don't think you'll get any meaningful responses here.
I don't think women have some conscious list of things they look for in a guy. (If they do, they probaly are anal retentive freaks a la Kameelah from Real World).
I don't think someone is gonna say "yeah, I love fucked up guys" because they probaly don't know these guys are fucked up or doing so would show that they are probaly fucked up too.
It's like asking "Do you like things suck?" Even if they indeed do, they either can't or won't admit it.

― oops (Oops), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 22:20 (twenty-three years ago)

For what it's worth, I am more attracted to confident, strong women.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 22:21 (twenty-three years ago)

I didn't say 'fucked up guys', oops. That's too strong. I just said 'a bit lost or difficult'.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 22:22 (twenty-three years ago)

I always end up with the men who are a little bit lost and very difficult. I don't know if I'm necessarily *attracted* to them, or seek them out, but they always seem to find me. Does that make *ME* mentally unstable?

I don't think I've ever been with a man who looked after me. OK, I did once, and it didn't last very long. Maybe this is my problem with relationships, I should let men look after me more, they seem to like being the white knight. What is frightening is, that as "mad" as ILE perceives me to be, in my few long-term relationships, I've ultimately been the "sane" and "normal" one.

― kate, Wednesday, 26 February 2003 22:23 (twenty-three years ago)

Did I mention that I watch the Real World? Well, it was only while I was with my girlfriend...while getting a BJ...and reading the sports page.

Whew, worked my way outta that one. Heh heh.

― oops (Oops), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 22:23 (twenty-three years ago)

Self actualization = "A musician must make music, an artist must paint, and a poet must write." and a lazy git must be lazy.

― jel -- (jel), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 22:23 (twenty-three years ago)

"self-actualized" = overtly confident and fulfilled and wealthy and able to arrange all areas of their lives into wonderful soundbitey little compartments (NB: I AM NOT SAYING THIS TO INSULT ANYONE WHOSE LIFE EVEN VAGUELY RESEMBLES THIS. I JUST GET ALONG BETTER WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE STILL SEARCHING FOR SOMETHING THAN WITH THOSE WHO'VE ALREADY FOUND THAT BIG COOKIE.)

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 22:24 (twenty-three years ago)

Also, I was pleased to see Amateurist's post.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 22:24 (twenty-three years ago)

Thanks, Kate. That is interesting.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 22:24 (twenty-three years ago)

''Does that make *ME* mentally unstable?''

now you don't want to encourage mark do you?

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 22:25 (twenty-three years ago)

It's not that anyone necessarily says or thinks these things -- but I do know plenty of girls who do, by and large, tend to work better with less (confident / dominant / whatever) guys, whose model of a likeable man runs more toward pleasant, self-effacing, maybe cutely ineffectual guys. I think I know plenty of girls like this because I am often that type of guy. It's just a slight switch in one of the traditional gender roles of relationships.

(It tends to work much better for guys who are deeply interested in and good at some pursuit -- usually an artistic one -- which sort of takes the heat off for not being a mammoth-slayer in conventional senses.)

I am with Nick on being attracted to strong / confident women, or anyway ones that are strong and confident in the ways that I'm not, which I tend to have lots of admiration for. The thing is, there are lots of types of confidence. It's a great and very complementary kind of confidence to have a woman like this tease you and chuckle in self-deprecating agreement and know that she finds you adorable / fascinating / worth looking after when necessary.

Nick, stop being me.

― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 22:35 (twenty-three years ago)

By the way, formerly-Nory here on ILE claims that the love lives of "lost / difficult" men have been immeasurably assisted by the work of one Woody Allen. I always say "Lloyd Dobler, too," but she's like "no, way more Woody Allen."

― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 22:37 (twenty-three years ago)

ineffectual, guilty as charged. But I do have moments of meglomania.

― jel -- (jel), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 22:39 (twenty-three years ago)

nabisco, stop being me.

― oops (Oops), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 22:42 (twenty-three years ago)

I guess what Nabisco says is kinda true. I am attracted to the type of guy who can write symphonies in his sleep but can't actually tie his own shoelaces. It's a different kind of confidence. I like men with total artistic confidence, almost arrogance (but those kind of men almost always kind of let the rest of their lives go to pot).

― kate, Wednesday, 26 February 2003 22:44 (twenty-three years ago)

What about men with no confidence whatsoever? Sexxxy huh?

― Amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 22:46 (twenty-three years ago)

There are so many areas in which a person can be confident/capable or not. My b/f is very emotionally capable; one of the first things he showed me (by his actions) is that you don't have to take things so fucking seriously! (We were 18 when we met and I was very much the gloom-n-doom political punk.) I quite literally had to teach him how to boil water; I'm the capable one for knowing how things in the real world work. But especially in the early years, he was the only one of us who knew how my emotions worked. This has been a splendid matchup; we're still together 10 yrs down the road.

― teeny (teeny), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 22:46 (twenty-three years ago)

'Broad brush strokes'.

Are you advocating sex with Karl Howman, N.?

― Ally C (Ally C), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 22:52 (twenty-three years ago)

because of you.

― RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 22:56 (twenty-three years ago)

I can't really imagine advocating sex with anyone. That would be a very peculiar practice.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 22:59 (twenty-three years ago)

Yes, but anything for Karl. He's pretty Flash. Ho.

― Ally C (Ally C), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 23:05 (twenty-three years ago)

the type of guy who can write symphonies in his sleep but can't actually tie his own shoelaces

Colm O'Ciosoig, apparently

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 23:13 (twenty-three years ago)

What about men with no confidence whatsoever? Sexxxy huh?
Some people may say yes. Not everybody wants the same thing(s)..

― brg30 (brg30), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 23:16 (twenty-three years ago)

i don't need a guy to be my dad, i have a dad and he likes fixing my car. i don't like it when guys try to make me into their mother, if you can't wash your own dirty sox then SHOVE THEM UP YR ASS you dickwad (that was aimed at no-one here). what do i go for? social ineptitude, affection and good hair.

― di smith (lucylurex), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 23:28 (twenty-three years ago)

Colm had great hair.

― kate, Wednesday, 26 February 2003 23:29 (twenty-three years ago)

di, I'm not good at these kinds of interactions, but I have a deep unwavering fondness for you and would like to cuddle the day away. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to run out and grab some more shampoo and conditioner.

― oops (Oops), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 23:37 (twenty-three years ago)

Har har har, I just found out why the shoelace-Colm comment was made.

Aw, sigh. I don't want to know these things. Next you'll be telling me that Horton is a freak who can't tie his own shoelaces. Oh wait...

― kate, Wednesday, 26 February 2003 23:39 (twenty-three years ago)

go di.

― Maria (Maria), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 23:41 (twenty-three years ago)

http://www.ladies-of-the-heart.com/img/you-go-girl.jpg

― oops (Oops), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 23:44 (twenty-three years ago)

meep!

― di smith (lucylurex), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 23:46 (twenty-three years ago)

I know this is reversing the intent of this thread, but I tend to be attracted to girls who have a meek, retiring quality (exhibited in posture, tone of voice, etc.). Or at least these are the girls I find myself most likely to go up and talk to. I'm not sure if this is wise target marketing or self-defeating. Either way it kind of creeps me out.

― Amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 23:48 (twenty-three years ago)

Di, kicking ass and taking names. Again! :-)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 26 February 2003 23:54 (twenty-three years ago)

lost / difficult / cutely ineffectual.....sums up most of the men i've known / been with until recently (but then i guess i fall into the indie / confident gal bracket - who makes up these categories?)

then last year i met a confident , tcb kind of fellow, and guess what folks, i'm marrying him!!

haha, i've no idea if this all signifies some primal feminine need of mine to be "taken care of"; i doubt it. maybe i just met my match?

as for "mentally unstable women"? whaaaa??...or, heheh, i dunno what you mean ; )

― jeanne picot (jeanne picot), Thursday, 27 February 2003 00:31 (twenty-three years ago)

I like people who are intelligent, centered, and comfortable with themselves. They don't have to be macho (in fact I prefer less macho) but they do have to know who they are, where they're going, and what they're doing. I don't mind if they're a little needy, as we're all that way in some cases - but I don't want someone who needs to be in control of the relationship.

― I'm Passing Open Windows (Ms Laura), Thursday, 27 February 2003 00:33 (twenty-three years ago)

Di, you are so right-on.

Like I always say, "DONE! Now get up - Get out - and don't even think about bringing you laundry over here!"

― BurmaKitty (BurmaKitty), Thursday, 27 February 2003 00:37 (twenty-three years ago)

i need to go out with someone who shares di's attitude. i can't fix a car but i can sure as hell wash my own smalls.

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Thursday, 27 February 2003 00:39 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm very attracted to strong, powerful, confident men. Paradoxically, I'm married to a gentle, unassuming man who leaves most decision making up to me. But I've found in the last couple of years, it's really beginning to piss me off. I'm losing respect for him and even though I feel like a proper bitch for saying or thinking it, I'm sometimes disgusted by what I now perceive as his weakness. It's not easy to say this stuff, but it's what I feel. I'm a strong, confident, extrovert woman and saying these things, makes me feel shallow and cruel. But I can't deny my feelings, I'm becoming increasingly attracted to men who are the opposite to my S.O.

― Tatyana, Thursday, 27 February 2003 00:45 (twenty-three years ago)

i tend to avoid guys who act too much like they need to be taken care of. it's mostly because i associate guys like this with the psychos i've gone out with. it was extremely stressful trying to meet their emotional needs all the fucking time. i mean, total helplessness like that is such a turn off. i don't know if these guys were emotionally needy, or if they were just playing the emotional blackmail game, but either way the message was along the lines of "Take care of me and save me NOW or i will DIE and it will be ALL YOUR FAULT". it wasn't the most fun thing.

my boyfreind is pretty much what i ideally want: someone who's somewhere in between the 2 options. a boy who's a little bit lost, but is still comfortable with himself and a bit cocky. willing to look after me but lets me look after him too. oh and also CUTE!

― sand.y, Thursday, 27 February 2003 01:04 (twenty-three years ago)

Blimey, that's me.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 27 February 2003 01:08 (twenty-three years ago)

i hope you mean the second paragraph and not the first!

(or maybe you mean are Tatyana's husband?)

― sand.y, Thursday, 27 February 2003 01:18 (twenty-three years ago)

Err, yeah - the second. I was overwhelmed by how accurate a description it was before I got to the 'AND CUTE' bit, btw. Anyway, it's probably like one of those horoscope debunking descriptions that everyone thinks was written just for them, so don't worry I'm not suggesting a date.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 27 February 2003 01:21 (twenty-three years ago)

so don't worry I'm not suggesting a date

Oh, you totally are. You just want someone to protect you from the Cobra Kai.

― Nicole (Nicole), Thursday, 27 February 2003 01:26 (twenty-three years ago)

haha, N. i get the impression from lots of my friends that this is also their ideal type of boy. i can hook you up if you want ;)

the cute thing might be a problem though.

― sand.y, Thursday, 27 February 2003 01:31 (twenty-three years ago)

Nicole, where did you pop up from, what is the Cobra Kai, and are you going to contribute in any useful way to this thread?

Sand.y I'm not saying I'm not cute.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 27 February 2003 01:32 (twenty-three years ago)

N. i wasn't saying you were saying you're not cute.

― sand.y, Thursday, 27 February 2003 01:36 (twenty-three years ago)

What did you mean about it being a problem? You mean they would all be fighting over me?

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 27 February 2003 01:37 (twenty-three years ago)

i wasn't being totally serious. but yes, they would be fighting because these types of boys are hard to find around here. in fact, my freinds and i were discussing this the other day and i can say with confidence that they would definitely be fighting over a guy who fits that description.

― sand.y, Thursday, 27 February 2003 01:42 (twenty-three years ago)

i don't know if these guys were emotionally needy, or if they were just playing the emotional blackmail game, but either way the message was along the lines of "Take care of me and save me NOW or i will DIE and it will be ALL YOUR FAULT".

That's really scary, sand.y - it's like you've been reading my diary or something. I really really need to get out of this pattern. I respond to it, it's very effective, but it's freaking killing me and destroying my love-life.

― kate, Thursday, 27 February 2003 10:46 (twenty-three years ago)

"write this article or else my band will break up and then I'll kill myself" is as effective an emotional blackmail as "If you leave me, I'm swallowing all the paracetemols in the medicine cabinet" - I need to get my head around this and stop being manipulated. :-(

― kate, Thursday, 27 February 2003 10:55 (twenty-three years ago)

a boy who's a little bit lost, but is still comfortable with himself and a bit cocky.

Blimey, that's me.

Isn’t that they way most men would describe themselves?

For the record, I find 'lost' men to be initially endearing but ultimately quite irritating. We're all a little lost sometimes but I think we should accept that as par for the course and get on with things. I just don't find heavily introspective people very appealing. I’m much more likely to be impressed by a confidant man – but a quiet confidence.

(We all have insecurities and issues but I want someone who is emotionally strong enough to sustain a relationship and doesn’t live with his head in the clouds. The most unattractive traits that I have seen in a partner were detachment and insensitivity to how he dealt with people. He didn’t really feel things – he didn’t become depressed because disappointment is what he expected and he could only cry if he could find a song to fit the mood. It has been some time since we were together but sadly, he and his imagination are still living a very unhappy and unfulfilled life together. I worry about him sometimes but he was so uncomfortable in himself, lazy and, as a result, cold that I just can’t bring myself to care.)

I certainly look for, in a partner, what I would like to see in myself so: quiet confidence, self-assurance, a good awareness of the people around me, gentleness and a nice tight bum.
.

― Lara (Lara), Thursday, 27 February 2003 11:28 (twenty-three years ago)

I didn't answer the initial question at all! I'd forgotten what it was by the time I'd reached the last post. I imagine that we've got to look after each other. I realise that my previous post might make me sound hard or uncaring but I'm not. *promise* I want my boyf to be able to take care of me in some ways and take control sometimes when I’m feeling small. However, it's really important that I trust him to do it right (and not be a headless idiot) and that he will let me look after him when he needs it.

― Lara (Lara), Thursday, 27 February 2003 11:36 (twenty-three years ago)

"quiet confidence" sounds like the strong silent type to me, a type which i cannot abide. cannot and will not.

― di smith (lucylurex), Thursday, 27 February 2003 11:37 (twenty-three years ago)

That was not my intention (or interpretation). I just meant confidant without being over-bearing. Quietly was used in a figurative sense.

― Lara (Lara), Thursday, 27 February 2003 12:19 (twenty-three years ago)

okay. i see.

― di smith (lucylurex), Thursday, 27 February 2003 12:23 (twenty-three years ago)

But I would rather a bag of Starmix to a man most days.

― Lara (Lara), Thursday, 27 February 2003 12:24 (twenty-three years ago)

what is the Cobra Kai

You were reminding me of the kid from The Final Sacrifice.

and are you going to contribute in any useful way to this thread?

I initially didn't answer this because I thought the answer was a bit obvious. Isn't a combination of the two best? I don't think anyone wants an overbearing type that wants to take care of them all of the time, and I don't think most people want someone who needs taking care of all of the time. Of course, I could be wrong.

― Nicole (Nicole), Thursday, 27 February 2003 13:07 (twenty-three years ago)

You were reminding me of the kid from The Final Sacrifice.

ARGH. Sorry, I just recently rewatched that. "Rowsdower!"

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 27 February 2003 14:21 (twenty-three years ago)

I think Anthony might be Rowsdower.

― Nicole (Nicole), Thursday, 27 February 2003 14:57 (twenty-three years ago)

Absolutely not! I have full faith and trust in the fact that Anthony would at least not wear his hair that way.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 27 February 2003 15:31 (twenty-three years ago)

But he's Canadian and probably likes a good ale or two?

― Nicole (Nicole), Thursday, 27 February 2003 15:37 (twenty-three years ago)

Well, yes, but would we damn all Canadians to a live of Rowsdowerism?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 27 February 2003 15:38 (twenty-three years ago)

Dave Q would enjoy it, for sure.

― Nicole (Nicole), Thursday, 27 February 2003 15:39 (twenty-three years ago)

No, he would deliver an impassioned tirade about the go-nowhere do-nothingness of Rowsdower's life as a metaphor for Canadian small town life in general, concluding with an equation of that attitude with the losers in the flat above him and the Billy Squier remix 12" singles from 1982. And it would make perfect sense!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 27 February 2003 15:40 (twenty-three years ago)

There should be a remake with Dastoor and Dave Q. Don't know who would play the eevil villain though.

― Nicole (Nicole), Thursday, 27 February 2003 15:42 (twenty-three years ago)

Hm, who to play Canadian villian Garth Vader, hmmm...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 27 February 2003 15:45 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm dating a guy whose profession is to rescue people, so I'll leave that there. On the other hand, he's adorably inept in the kitchen, so I get to cook for him. His kitchen is always amusing- lots of microwave popcorn boxes, since that's about all he can cook without messing it up.

― lyra (lyra), Friday, 28 February 2003 05:10 (twenty-three years ago)

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