the deciding moment of Peter Arnett's career

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First NBC issued a statement supporting his interview w/Iraqi TV, then they canned him. Hmmm...
Would the reaction have been the same if he had made his statements on MSNBC rather than Iraqi TV?...would they even have been aired?

Have we reached the point where no American journalist can speak out against the US administration without fear of reprisal? Or has this always been the case?

oops (Oops), Monday, 31 March 2003 14:25 (twenty-three years ago)

Oh, give it time. The grumbling will increase.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 31 March 2003 14:28 (twenty-three years ago)

I gotta think the fact that he gave the interview on Iraqi TV was where he went wrong... I also wonder if he'd have made the statement on MSNBC if he'd have got canned.

On the flip side, I'd guess that if an Iraqi journalist gave an interview to NBC saying that Iraq was loosing than he'd prolly get a bit worse than fired.

(I agree with Arnett's comments by the way... just think he was a bit naff and prolly deserves what he got.)

Aaron W (Aaron W), Monday, 31 March 2003 14:30 (twenty-three years ago)

According to a beeb hack who'd been there in '91 a 'condition' of being allowed to continue to work in iraq was to give occasional interviews to the iraqi media. If you didn't say what they wanted they misdubbed or misquoted you anyway.

Ed (dali), Monday, 31 March 2003 14:49 (twenty-three years ago)

Wow. If that's true, it kind of changes everything.

Aaron W (Aaron W), Monday, 31 March 2003 14:50 (twenty-three years ago)

knee-jerks all around, on me this time

Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Monday, 31 March 2003 14:50 (twenty-three years ago)

So would he have been fired if he went on Iraqi TV but said NOTHING negative about the US govt? If he praised the US he'd might even have been viewed as a hero, standing up to Saddam in his own turf. But let's imagine that he said nothing positive or negative about the US: would the reaction still be that he shouldn't be fraternizing with the enemy?
It leads me to the conclusion that it was the combination of what he said and where he said it that got him in trouble.

(wrote this before seeing Ed's post--take my questions hypothetically)

oops (Oops), Monday, 31 March 2003 14:53 (twenty-three years ago)

Have we reached the point where no American journalist can speak out against the US administration without fear of reprisal?

I think the problem is more that he sounded more like a pro-Iraqi op-ed column rather than being a reporter.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Monday, 31 March 2003 14:55 (twenty-three years ago)

How so? Are you equating criticizing US policy w/being pro-Iraqi?

oops (Oops), Monday, 31 March 2003 14:57 (twenty-three years ago)

He sounded more like a French Dixie Chick.

Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Monday, 31 March 2003 14:57 (twenty-three years ago)

Beeb hack did also he used to babble on about 'world peace' rather than specifics but maybe the iraqis have got wise to this.

Ed (dali), Monday, 31 March 2003 15:03 (twenty-three years ago)

How so? Are you equating criticizing US policy w/being pro-Iraqi?

Not at all, but it's not necessarily the job of a reporter, whose job it is to fairly report news and not comment upon it or be interviewed about it.

just because Fox news is an abomination, doesn't mean that two journalistic wrongs make a right.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Monday, 31 March 2003 15:10 (twenty-three years ago)

But he wasn't giving a report, he was giving an interview. I've seen other journalists do this many times.

oops (Oops), Monday, 31 March 2003 15:13 (twenty-three years ago)

BUT, I've never seen a jounalist interviewed and give his opinions while the story he's commenting on is still going on.

oops (Oops), Monday, 31 March 2003 15:16 (twenty-three years ago)

And why the about-face by NBC? Did they cave into pressure, or was their first statement hastily made and reflexive?

oops (Oops), Monday, 31 March 2003 15:18 (twenty-three years ago)

Arnett encouraged the regime to create civilian casualties and, by praising the Iraqi military resistance (which has been virtually non-existent and strategically uneffective) he discouraged the Iraqi populace from siding with the "invaders" for fear that the coalition would lose and all those "traitors" would face retribution later. He did much more damage as a western reporter working for an american media outlet than any talking puppet arab anchor could ever do.

If he was coerced, was his life threatened had he refused? Nic Robertson and his producers were thrown out of the country, but they weren't harmed.

Stuart (Stuart), Monday, 31 March 2003 15:22 (twenty-three years ago)

BUT, I've never seen a jounalist interviewed and give his opinions while the story he's commenting on is still going on.

exactly. I was very surprised about NBC's initial backing of him. Also, his remarks were so professionally self-destructive that I thought he might have been under the effects of sodium pentathol or something.

I supported his extremely challenging reporting during the first Gulf War (the bombed baby formula factory etc), but I think he really lost it doing that interview...

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Monday, 31 March 2003 15:24 (twenty-three years ago)

In what world are the iraqis putting up 'non-existant and stratgically uneffective' resistance? I don't doubt that in the end the iraqis will be defeated but the US/UK forces are paying with blood time and the loss of what little support may have been forthcoming from the iraqi people.

Ed (dali), Monday, 31 March 2003 15:26 (twenty-three years ago)

Did you even read/hear what he said, Stuart? Encouraged the regime to create civilian casualties?!? I think you need very twisted logic to turn what he said into encouraging civilian casualties.
The resistance has been virtually non-existent? Granted we aren't in danger of losing the war, but their resistance is greater than was expected, by the public and by Cheney et al.

oops (Oops), Monday, 31 March 2003 15:30 (twenty-three years ago)

Greater than expected by whom?

Stuart (Stuart), Monday, 31 March 2003 15:51 (twenty-three years ago)

read on past the comma after 'expected'

oops (Oops), Monday, 31 March 2003 15:56 (twenty-three years ago)

Arnett got whacked because some of his comments were demonstrably false and overall, were in poor judgment. If he got fired merely for disagreeing with the US propaganda machine, then the networks would be very busy letting people go.

Remember, this is a guy who fought off charges that he was overly sympathetic to Iraq in the first Gulf War. This is also a guy who narrated a story for CNN that had to be retracted because it contained false information about the use of nerve gas by Americans.

There's nothing wrong with giving interviews to Iraq TV. Other journos have done it and will continue to do so. It's great that Arnett fancies himself some sort of renegade, but at this juncture the last thing the major networks want to have is a reputation for opinionated reporting. At least the non-Fox ones, I imagine.

don weiner, Monday, 31 March 2003 16:04 (twenty-three years ago)

If the public expected no resistance, and the resistance was only virtually non-existant, then yes, I suppose the resistance exceeded the public's expectations. So?

Iraqi resistance exists, yes, but it is accomplishing nothing. Where their forces are not deserting or surrendering, they are being slaughtered. Meanwhile, coalition casualties number around 70, with another couple dozen captured or missing. How could anyone reasonably expect this war to be going any better?

Stuart (Stuart), Monday, 31 March 2003 16:06 (twenty-three years ago)

Arnett got whacked because some of his comments were demonstrably false

Which ones were those?

oops (Oops), Monday, 31 March 2003 16:07 (twenty-three years ago)

Stuart, commanders in the field and soldiers were led to believe that the vast majority of Iraqis would lay down their weapons as soon as they saw coalition forces. This has not been the case. The resistance that the Iraqi army is giving may not been significant militarily, but the effect on soldiers' morale may indeed be significant.

oops (Oops), Monday, 31 March 2003 16:11 (twenty-three years ago)

"Clearly, the American war planners misjudged the determination of the Iraqi forces."

and

"That is why now America is re-appraising the battlefield, delaying the war, maybe a week, and re-writing the war plan. The first war plan has failed because of Iraqi resistance now they are trying to write another war plan."

Are both false.

Stuart (Stuart), Monday, 31 March 2003 16:12 (twenty-three years ago)

Uh, I think the first one is definitely true and the second one may be true.

oops (Oops), Monday, 31 March 2003 16:17 (twenty-three years ago)

Of course, it's hard to surrender as soon as you see coalition forces when coalition forces are dropping precision munitions on you from way up in the sky...

Stuart (Stuart), Monday, 31 March 2003 16:18 (twenty-three years ago)

Stuart, Rumsfeld was (half jokingly I'll admit) say that the war would be over in 6 days. Basra was meant to fall with jubilant uprising. I'd be the first to admit that these were the unrealistic expectation but these were the expectations put forward by the bush junta.

Ed (dali), Monday, 31 March 2003 16:19 (twenty-three years ago)

Why do you think military planners underestimated their determination? Do you think that they underestimated their determination, but that their underestimation has had no effect on the execution of the plan? I mean it's like you're aware of a bunch of setbacks that nobody else knows about...

Stuart (Stuart), Monday, 31 March 2003 16:23 (twenty-three years ago)

The (semi) joke here today was that Arnett will be working for the CBC before the week is out.

Bryan (Bryan), Monday, 31 March 2003 16:24 (twenty-three years ago)

stuart, do you not read the news, (or do you just watch FOX and CNN). This war is not going to plan senior military figures have admitted as much on the record.

Ed (dali), Monday, 31 March 2003 16:27 (twenty-three years ago)

FYI Stuart et al: http://slate.msn.com/id/2080814/

Amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 31 March 2003 16:28 (twenty-three years ago)

Ed, please do not lump CNN, which despite some problems is pretty fair, with the truly dreadful Fox "news".

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Monday, 31 March 2003 16:47 (twenty-three years ago)

sorry

Ed (dali), Monday, 31 March 2003 16:49 (twenty-three years ago)

"This wasn't the enemy we war-gamed against" = my fave quote of the war, so far.

hstencil, Monday, 31 March 2003 16:50 (twenty-three years ago)

The fact is, as the slate link supports, that the US war planners were enamored with their own technology and strategy, regardless of the their practicality. They suffered from an affliction that has affected almost all men who wield enormous power: hubris.

oops (Oops), Monday, 31 March 2003 16:52 (twenty-three years ago)

Actually, a good number of Americans think that CNN is too far to the left (never mind what they think of the NY Times), which means that a good number of Americans are insane. I wonder what would happen if they were forced to read, gasp, the Guardian or something.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Monday, 31 March 2003 16:53 (twenty-three years ago)

That's why, until January 2001, it was known as the "Clinton News Network."

hstencil, Monday, 31 March 2003 16:58 (twenty-three years ago)

ha ha.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Monday, 31 March 2003 17:02 (twenty-three years ago)

Damn, I'm so bummed this thread petered out - I was having fun trying to figure out what planet Stuart's been on for the past 2 weeks!

chuck, Monday, 31 March 2003 19:06 (twenty-three years ago)

the Pentagon are soooooo hoping Rumsfeld goes down

James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 31 March 2003 19:10 (twenty-three years ago)

The Today Show was practically saying, "Rumsfield has been pulling rank and playing Despot For Democracy with American forces against the wishes of the people who actually know something about war-planning/troop deployment," this morning. It was like they were sitting there going, "HE'S LIKE PALPATINE! DON'T LET THE LESSONS OF EPS I AND II BE IN VAIN!!!!!!"

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 31 March 2003 19:16 (twenty-three years ago)

Arnett said: "That is why now America is re-appraising the battlefield, delaying the war, maybe a week, and re-writing the war plan. The first war plan has failed because of Iraqi resistance now they are trying to write another war plan"

There's no evidence America's war plan has been rewritten--adapted somewhat, perhaps--but that's not what Arnett's comments implied at all. There's also no evidence that the first war plan "failed" (what exactly was that first plan anyway, Peter?). In fact, the military is notorious for contingencies--the lack of Turkey as a land base being much more notable than the nebulous "determination" Arnett is enamored by, for example--and to reduce the entire US strategy down to a single wargame where several "senior officials" allege that the effect of militias were ignored is hardly a foundation to support Arnett's comments.

Also, one of the prime reasons CNN was known as the Clinton News Network had to do with the president of the network being a close friend of the sitting president.

don weiner, Monday, 31 March 2003 19:22 (twenty-three years ago)

"HE'S LIKE PALPATINE! DON'T LET THE LESSONS OF EPS I AND II BE IN VAIN!!!!!!"

So who's his little Jedi plaything, then?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 31 March 2003 19:31 (twenty-three years ago)

Bush, obv.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 31 March 2003 19:32 (twenty-three years ago)

The first plan was to sprint towards Baghdad and worry about the rest of the country later, no? The resistance encountered in Basra and Um Qasar forced the coalition to send resources to those locations and MAY have delayed an attack on Baghdad.

oops (Oops), Monday, 31 March 2003 19:32 (twenty-three years ago)

you know let's not give Peter Arnett too much credit, it's been well known he just parrots what other people (that would be the journalists) write for him, even when he does his correspondent routine (ya know NBC got him for the Gulf War I associations, not for the skills). He's Brian Williams with a combover and a dyejob, and he's gotten fired before for not remembering that.

James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 31 March 2003 19:36 (twenty-three years ago)

Bush, obv.

I wouldn't trust him to go up against a remote with the blast shield up, much less be the chosen one out killing people in the desert who insulted his family...hey!

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 31 March 2003 19:37 (twenty-three years ago)

(Isn't that scary?)

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 31 March 2003 19:41 (twenty-three years ago)

It explains that Mad magazine parody a bit more. ;-)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 31 March 2003 19:46 (twenty-three years ago)

The mirror have signed him up as a columnist for the duration.

Ed (dali), Tuesday, 1 April 2003 09:58 (twenty-three years ago)

It occurs to me that I don't know what's scarier about the Star Wars scenario -- Rumsfield's facist takeover, that this would make Bush Sr. Obi Wan, how much Bat Buchannan really does resemble Jar Jar, or just imagining Christopher Hitchens dressed as Princess Amadala.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 1 April 2003 11:40 (twenty-three years ago)

reach out with yr feelings sterl

mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 1 April 2003 11:49 (twenty-three years ago)

Chuck Eddy can't figure out what planet I'm on. Mission Accomplished.

Stuart (Stuart), Tuesday, 1 April 2003 14:20 (twenty-three years ago)

http://images.ucomics.com/comics/bo/2003/bo030331.gif

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 1 April 2003 17:30 (twenty-three years ago)

I love it when little socialist cartoon characters complain about government spending.

Stuart (Stuart), Tuesday, 1 April 2003 18:06 (twenty-three years ago)

so did everybody see Cronkite's editorial?

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 April 2003 18:07 (twenty-three years ago)

No..link?

oops (Oops), Tuesday, 1 April 2003 18:08 (twenty-three years ago)

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/01/opinion/01CRON.html

Stuart (Stuart), Tuesday, 1 April 2003 18:15 (twenty-three years ago)

Thanks, but that site requires membership...if it's not incredibly long, you could post the piece here.

oops (Oops), Tuesday, 1 April 2003 18:17 (twenty-three years ago)

Speaking With the Enemy
By WALTER CRONKITE


Under the Constitution, giving "aid and comfort" to a wartime enemy can lead to a charge of treason. So far as I know no one has yet suggested that Peter Arnett be charged with that capital offense. But it seems that Mr. Arnett hangs by a rope of his own weaving.

Mr. Arnett, of course, is the former reporter in Baghdad for NBC and National Geographic who was fired for giving an interview to state-controlled Iraqi television. In the interview he criticized the American military effort and praised the morale of the Iraqi people and the cooperation of Iraq's information ministry — this latter despite the fact that many American correspondents have been ejected from the country and, indeed, two of them are missing, last heard from in Baghdad.

There is no excuse for Mr. Arnett's lack of judgment, and he has apologized for it. However, journalists — especially those who have had to deal with foreign governments at times of extreme tension — will recognize a motivation in his acceptance of the interview. They can recognize it without excusing it.

There is an adage concerning a reporter's dealings with the secrecy that surrounds most government activities, not only here at home but to a greater extent in countries that do not share the American concept of freedom of the press. The adage is this: A reporter is only as good as his sources.

Clearly Mr. Arnett, in granting the interview, was cozying up to sources he depended on for, first, their tolerance of him in Baghdad and, second, any information he could get: about Iraq's military posture, its claims of combat successes and techniques, and the morale of its populace.

In this regard, Mr. Arnett was a valuable correspondent in the enemy's capital. As long as he pleased and even seemed to sympathize with his Baghdad sources, he was permitted to broadcast to America. It is even conceivable that his inside look was of some value to our own military.

Mr. Arnett was an honored reporter for The Associated Press in Vietnam; he won a Pulitzer Prize for his coverage. He earned respect from his colleagues for his extraordinary courage and daring and for his knowledgeable dispatches. His admired modesty suffered somewhat after he became a TV reporter and won acclaim for his bravado in staying in Baghdad in 1991 to report for CNN. He even said in his interview last weekend that if U.S. war planners had listened to his more recent broadcasts they would have known of the strength of the Iraqi Army and the devotion of the Iraqi people.

His long experience makes it all the more difficult to understand how he could have been so grossly irresponsible in granting that interview. He besmirched his reputation, offended a nation and lost his job — justifiably so — even though he will still report for The Daily Mirror in Britain.

But Mr. Arnett's firing is more than a personal setback. With him gone from the airwaves, Americans have lost an eye on Baghdad that had proved a valuable addition to our knowledge of a mysterious enemy.


Walter Cronkite was anchor of the CBS Evening News from 1962 to 1981.

Skottie, Tuesday, 1 April 2003 18:20 (twenty-three years ago)

Sounds like Cronkite wants to say something, but never quite gets around to it. He seems to think A. is a kook too.

SKottie, Tuesday, 1 April 2003 18:21 (twenty-three years ago)

Muchas gracias, Skottie

oops (Oops), Tuesday, 1 April 2003 18:23 (twenty-three years ago)

:-)

Skottie, Tuesday, 1 April 2003 18:26 (twenty-three years ago)

He sympathizes w/Arnett and sees a possible motive for the interview (ie getting closer w/the Iraqi regime), but then chastises his decision-making. Seems to contradict himself.

oops (Oops), Tuesday, 1 April 2003 18:28 (twenty-three years ago)

Not really: you can understand why someone would do something without condoning their behavior.

Nicole (Nicole), Tuesday, 1 April 2003 18:34 (twenty-three years ago)

Agreed. But it's still with an ambiguous and perplexed tone. Throwing out the treason card in the first line and then grabbing it back is a little bit of a cheat. But I think it's because Walter thinks Peter is totally wack. He may be right!

Skottie, Tuesday, 1 April 2003 18:35 (twenty-three years ago)

Good point Nicole. Guess I missed this line: They can recognize it without excusing it.

oops (Oops), Tuesday, 1 April 2003 18:36 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't know what planet any of you are on. I would really like Oops and Stuart and Ed and everybody to point me at the cracked CENTCOM server that houses the contingencies and doctrine for the entire operation that you guys have been reading. Last I checked that stuff was strictly controlled and not even the media were allowed to discuss it if they somehow found out. Hence Geraldo getting an escort out-of-country. The whole idea that press reporting and Pentagon chatter has anything to do with the actual combat plans was pretty much shot to shit in the first missile strike on Baghdad, wasn't it?

As far as I know NBC is a private company. Just as Clear Channel is allowed to stop playing the DCs for saying stuff that alienates 90% of their audience, NBC is allowed to fire journalists who say things that alienate whoever the hell it is who still watches NBC/MSNBC etc for news coverage. It's their money. Congrats on Mr. Arnett for his new job at the Mirror. I'm sure that fine publication will allow him to say whatever is on his mind without any fear of retribution whatsoever.

Millar (Millar), Tuesday, 1 April 2003 22:07 (twenty-three years ago)

As far as I know NBC is a private company.

No, no, no, M., NBC is part of the m___, i___, e___ complex....

Seriously, you're right, of course, NBC is a private, for profit company that will always play to the perceived interests of its viewers. But that's not what's interesting here, I think. What's different is that everybody knows this except journalists. They have this idea that they play by different rules, that their job is a vocation like the priesthood. Arnett appears baffling to both the networks and fellow journalists because he doesn't seem to be playing by anybody's rule book, or doctrine (got to be one of the dumbest of the military's many, many dumb terms). Therefore, what I see as the perplexed tone in the Cronkite editorial--"Why would he do this? Is it treason? Is it stupidity? I can't figure it out..." muses Walter.

Skottie, Tuesday, 1 April 2003 23:39 (twenty-three years ago)

Millar with the smackdown! Thank God he's on our side!

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 April 2003 23:47 (twenty-three years ago)

my whole point is and has always been that anyone criticizing the execution of the war by accusing the pentagon of rewriting the plan, and dismissing the astonishing progress that has been made so far in favor of painting every single casualty as a crippling setback, has no clue what they're talking about... nobody who knows how the plan has changed or if it has changed or what was anticipated versus what was not is talking about it.

Stuart (Stuart), Wednesday, 2 April 2003 00:13 (twenty-three years ago)

Maybe the plan was to piss everyone off by firing cruise missiles full of puppies at Baghdad, but then they figured that was going too far.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 2 April 2003 00:38 (twenty-three years ago)

DOGGY STYLE!

James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 2 April 2003 00:46 (twenty-three years ago)

Atomic dogs, literally (oh my unsplit sides).

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 2 April 2003 00:48 (twenty-three years ago)

Talking about how "independent" NBC is without acknowledging that NBC is a division of General Electric, a major military contractor = dud.

hstencil, Wednesday, 2 April 2003 13:04 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm not claiming to know the battle plan, but the only people who say that they are not surprised at the level of Iraqi resistance are Pentagon spokesmen--for obv reasons. I've read interviews w/injured troops who said that they were not expecting as fierce of fighting as there has been. They didn't come up w/these expectations on their own, rather it is a result of the briefing(s) they received.

oops (Oops), Wednesday, 2 April 2003 14:20 (twenty-three years ago)

News Flash: Some coalition troops were absolutely astonished by the level of resistance and determination in the Iraqi troops they completely obliterated.

Meanwhile, coalition forces have tightened the noose to within 19 miles of Bagdhad (the city, not the division - it's been destroyed).

Stuart (Stuart), Wednesday, 2 April 2003 14:34 (twenty-three years ago)

News Flash: Some coalition troops were absolutely astonished by the level of resistance and determination in the Iraqi troops they WERE INJURED BY.

oops (Oops), Wednesday, 2 April 2003 14:35 (twenty-three years ago)

Tom, quite right I can only infer the battle plan from what the pentagon say. I can only make comparisons with that Rumsfeld et al were saying before the war. They have had to scale back their expectations about the war. Other information is collected from the media. You can build up a picture from this.

Also pre-war, and even now to some extent, the pentagon was as leaky as a seive. There seem to be a lot of vested interests keen to see Rumsfeld fail not to the extent of loosing the war but just enough to stop his military reforms in their tracks.

Ed (dali), Wednesday, 2 April 2003 14:38 (twenty-three years ago)


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