brondesbury and kensal green (and the shifting of hip areas)

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will the locus of 'cool' ever shift in this way. or will things stick to the east? for long time people been saying next area to hoxtonize will be bermondsey, but this hasnt really happened yet has it? will it? when? others say stratford? but i see that as more a new stoke newington rather than a new hoxton/shoreditch.

will the trend continue east/south? or will there be a reversal at some point?

gareth (gareth), Friday, 13 June 2003 11:50 (twenty-two years ago)

it will be south of the river, i think. so many poeple have an odd prejudice about it, it seems entirely natural that a bunch of fools will make the obvious connection and try to make out they're being original by pissing off another bucnh of innocent locals.

matthew james (matthew james), Friday, 13 June 2003 11:57 (twenty-two years ago)

If the government is serious about this whole Thames Gateway/Olympics/Crossrail thing, then I can see the gentrification of London stretching East for at least the next 20 years. Ditto with the equivalent bit South of the river - Deptford, Woolwich, that whole area around the Dome etc. That'll be unrecognisable a few years down the line.

Obviously this will mean that a lot of the artists etc won't be able to afford to live there (Hoxton's big advantage is its proximity to the City and West End while once relative cheapness). Kensall Green is a little further out (I don't know, I've never been).

The next area of cool is more likely to be Peckham/Elephant and Castle or possibly Tottenham.

Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 13 June 2003 12:21 (twenty-two years ago)

is there an index of mutual accessiblity, of areas of "cool" one from another?

(peckham for example is quite complicated to get to from hackney and vice versa — except by car, which i think post-dates potential gentrification)

mark s (mark s), Friday, 13 June 2003 12:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Kensal is a hole, really nasty, I always found a pretty bad atmosphere around there.

Good call on E&C though Matt, you could be right there.

Borough market is rapidly becoming tourist hell, which pains me no end, I couldn't shop properly there last weekend for people walking round gawping at the food and eating burgers and not buying owt.

chris (chris), Friday, 13 June 2003 12:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Elephant and Castle and Tottenham are *my* ideas - clear off.

N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 13 June 2003 12:30 (twenty-two years ago)

what would you know? You're a weegie!

chris (chris), Friday, 13 June 2003 12:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Kensal/Bermondsey is only a stone's throw from Maida Vale area and Little Italy which has quietly 'enjoyed' a somewhat trendy rep for many years now (probably more so in the past tho) - it always seems like there was more of a buzz around this part of West London (and other parts like Hammersmith) around 15 years ago (just thinking of certain musical scenes including sound systems set up by people living off Harrow Road...Big Audio Dynamite actually did a track called Harrow Road tho i've never heard it).

stevem (blueski), Friday, 13 June 2003 12:36 (twenty-two years ago)

fuck i said Bermondsey (bleurgh) when i met Brondesbury obviously

stevem (blueski), Friday, 13 June 2003 12:36 (twenty-two years ago)

yes, the west is very 15 years ago

all the areas suggested above are east/south, as i suspected

gareth (gareth), Friday, 13 June 2003 12:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Brondesbury = not a lot there other than houses? Or are we really talking about Queens Park?

chris (chris), Friday, 13 June 2003 12:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Whether or not Kensall is a shithole is irrelevent, surely? I mean, Hoxton was fucking grim 10-15 years ago (and actually much of it still is).

Mark S's mutual accessbility thing is interesting (although Peckham much harder to get to than Brixton, which is obviously trendy as hell, tube line notwithstanding?)

I think Southwark and parts of Lambeth are where it's at. The current plan (Oh no! Work talk! Oh no!) is to basically demolish a lot of Elephant and Castle including one or two of the nasty estates, extend the Walworth Road straight through it and turn that big roundabout into a public square. So that whole stretch from Elephant to Camberwell (which is already full of art students) is up for a big change of image.

Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 13 June 2003 12:55 (twenty-two years ago)

"central" peckham/camberwell is harder to get to than brixton, yes, despite being closer

(three buses vs two = harder to get to)

mark s (mark s), Friday, 13 June 2003 12:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Bus routes can be altered very easily though.

Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 13 June 2003 13:02 (twenty-two years ago)

is there a situation here where young professionals and creatives move to these seedy rundown areas attracted by the cheapness and the 'ghetto chic' but this inadvertedly means prices going up and the area transforming upmarket as a result of the imported 'higher class' clientele?

stevem (blueski), Friday, 13 June 2003 13:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Rubbish rail connections is a differnet kettle of fish entirely, although this is also a problem with Hackney.

Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 13 June 2003 13:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Irrelevant yes, to an extent I think, plus there's not much there, just street after street of terraces with the odd pub (including the ok-ish Paradise) and lots of kebab houses, there's not so many opportunities for public spaces etc which are kind of essential for these sort of places.

Steve,, I think this may have happened round Kensal/Queens park, it's grotty , but it's near Notting Hill/Ladbroke Grove, so the people wanting ghetto chic love it.

chris (chris), Friday, 13 June 2003 13:04 (twenty-two years ago)

15 years ago, you may have been regarded as crazy to WANT to move to Brixton for example (i base this on nothing other than reputations back then).

stevem (blueski), Friday, 13 June 2003 13:04 (twenty-two years ago)

yes but not by me* matt!! unless it wz me that just burnt down that row of shops and flats near hackney central station (which it wasn't)

*or more to the point, not by prospective movers-into-a-new-area: the changes are made as responses to demand, surely, not as social engineering projects

anyway i said this bcz as it happens i have several very good friends in peckham but would not consider moving there bcz i associate it with the trek to get there

mark s (mark s), Friday, 13 June 2003 13:07 (twenty-two years ago)

the changes are made as responses to demand, surely, not as social engineering projects

I'm not really sure this is the case... reading some of the things said about that nothern bit of Southwark (none of which I have to hand at the moment, annoyingly) is that they specifically WANT to attract lots of trendy people in order to turn it into a nice place for all the tourists who are going to the Globe, Tate Modern, War Museum, Waterloo etc, so that they'll stay there and spend lots of money in bars and restaurants.

Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 13 June 2003 13:12 (twenty-two years ago)

well i guess the southwark line is an attempt to do that, also, yes (= a much easier route for me to "north" peckham which i only realised quite recently)

(but eg the docks line shuts at 3 on sundays so it's still a lottery)

mark s (mark s), Friday, 13 June 2003 13:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Also there's a bloody big multiphallic attempt at social engineering going on in Tower Hamlets - the biggest, in fact.

Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 13 June 2003 13:31 (twenty-two years ago)

the shifting of hip areas

I wanted that to be something rude like groin-thrusting.

ailsa (ailsa), Friday, 13 June 2003 17:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Me to thread.

Momus (Momus), Friday, 13 June 2003 18:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Slough.

jel -- (jel), Friday, 13 June 2003 21:16 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean, I dunno, how do you know if an area is cool? I have no idea, so it might as well be Slough, it's got a chocolate factory.

jel -- (jel), Friday, 13 June 2003 21:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Come friendly bombs and fall on Slough!

fields of salmon (fieldsofsalmon), Friday, 13 June 2003 21:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Slough as a word just SOUNDS horrible so that can't help

i suppose they could trendify Acton a bit more, its got peaks (Acton Park eh jel? ;) and troughs (north is ugly) and a heady mix of industry, residential, suburban tendencies, cosmopolitan populous including long established Afro-Caribbean and East Asian communities, that all essential 'ghetto chic'. so come to Acton, its a town on the move!

stevem (blueski), Friday, 13 June 2003 21:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Acton's a bit too big and amorphous for trendification though. It's so big that it's in zone 2 and yet manages to have no less than 7 stations in it.

RickyT (RickyT), Friday, 13 June 2003 21:54 (twenty-two years ago)

is there a situation here where young professionals and creatives move to these seedy rundown areas attracted by the cheapness and the 'ghetto chic' but this inadvertedly means prices going up and the area transforming upmarket as a result of the imported 'higher class' clientele?

Well, duh!

N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 13 June 2003 23:26 (twenty-two years ago)

The bit behind King's Cross east of Pancras Road and also all around the station (the Camden part, mostly) is being totally redeveloped. Let's put it this way: the neighbourhood isn't going to ever get worse, and it's central. Bagley's complex in Goods Yard to become the new Truman Brewery. Clubs like Egg opening up on York Way. Clubs within walking distance of one another replacing Flying Scotsman-type boozers. Canals! There have always been galleries and tunnel parties there - if you knew where to look. Ethiopian food starting to crawl along the bottom of Caledonian Road - Horn of Africa immigrant communities don't live here in large amounts, but they do eat here. Residual Italian shops and some really splendid architecture, including warehouses, tenement-style council flats, flat-fronted terraces with big windows and weird newbuilds like the straw-bale house built by experimental architects Jeremy Pell and Sarah Wigglesworth. Or tiny Keystone Crescent, with its Britpop drug house and Disney-set qualities. The restoration of the hotel above St Pancras station - it's a spooky place to go now, but they hold launch parties there occasionally. And yeah, the British Library isn't to be sniffed at either.

Like Hoxton, King's Cross is just on the border of the congestion charge and right by a BIG station. There used to be a splendid café, Gattopardo, opposite the Scala, but remember in '94 there was only the one place to get a decent cuppa in Hoxton, rongWrong.

suzy (suzy), Saturday, 14 June 2003 11:48 (twenty-two years ago)

But isn't Kings Cross already too expensive for starving artists?

N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 14 June 2003 12:04 (twenty-two years ago)

haha yes perhaps one day

"oh yah well I just bought a flat in Dagenham, it's this year's Ilford don't you know"

yeah well a bull ran amok in a china shop not so long ago so anything's possible

DG (D_To_The_G), Saturday, 14 June 2003 14:20 (twenty-two years ago)

i read that story, i can't believe it actually happened.

stevem (blueski), Saturday, 14 June 2003 15:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Apparently they want to build a Jurassic Park-esque theme park with BIG MECHANISED DINOSUARS as part of the leisure development behind King's Cross.

I have no idea whether this will happen, but if so, it will automatically make it the coolest place in London.

(Actually, I think King's Cross in general will become too dominated by offices and luxury flats to be the next Hoxton, but that will take a fair while. If anything, it's probably the next Angel.)

Matt DC (Matt DC), Sunday, 15 June 2003 20:31 (twenty-two years ago)

YAAOC, Peckham's already cool.

If the scale models I saw in the Elephant the other day (part of the consultation process) are to be believed, then that area is going to be a contstruction site for a long time.

Tim (Tim), Monday, 16 June 2003 08:10 (twenty-two years ago)

two months pass...
will you help me rehabilitate kensal green? together we can do it, i'm sure

gareth (gareth), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 12:17 (twenty-two years ago)

What's KG's postcode?

Tim (Tim), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 12:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Kensal Green Necropolis is pretty cool.
The Paradise down there always seemed to be full of meeja gargoyles.

Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 12:26 (twenty-two years ago)

nw6 and nw10, i think its kind of in both, i know very little about this area

gareth (gareth), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 13:09 (twenty-two years ago)

there's a bit of w10 in there too

the paradise is but seconds from my yard

Chip Morningstar (bob), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 13:19 (twenty-two years ago)

but dont ask me for the secrets of kensal, i get my corny psychogeography tourist fix in the east end like everyone else

Chip Morningstar (bob), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 13:22 (twenty-two years ago)

we can have the NW FAP in Kensal Green. i am a media gargoyle.

stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 13:22 (twenty-two years ago)

stevem who actually wants this to happen. not even i

Chip Morningstar (bob), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 13:36 (twenty-two years ago)

hey the other day I discovered the sushi place in Kensal Rise/green/whatevah has re-opened. possibly with a new name. i don't recall.

Alan (Alan), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 13:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Isn't Kensal Green Necropolis a bit Blue Oyster? I've never been back to Paradise since I hit my hand on that sculptural doofus in the middle of the pub after Michael Owen equalised against Romania in France '98.

Mikey G (Mikey G), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 13:46 (twenty-two years ago)


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