The group is its own worst enemy

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I came across this article earlier today, which contains some interesting insights into the evolution of online groups and the stages they must inevitably go through in order to survive.

It can be found at: www.shirky.com/writings/group_enemy.html

I thought this was an interesting read, and perhaps relevant to the board here. It's interesting to note that several concepts in it do seem to be reflected in the history of ILX (notably the "core group", the importance of reputation, the necessity for the group to defend itself against attack from within etc)

It's heavily slanted toward software but for those of you interested in the way in which message boards are repeating a social pattern that has occurred over and over on the 'Net, it's fascinating reading.

― C J (C J), Tuesday, 15 July 2003 12:53 (twenty-two years ago)

dr peter collett to thread!!

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 15 July 2003 13:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Hm. I think his three points, that of the sex talk, the vilification of some common enemy, and the religious worship of some one thing, don't really apply to ILX. Ok, there's sex talk. But who do we commonly vilify? Pitchfork? Not really. And religion? Forget it. We have no sacred cows here, not as I can tell.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Tuesday, 15 July 2003 13:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Calum?

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Tuesday, 15 July 2003 14:02 (twenty-two years ago)

I can see that using a Tolkien chat room is not a very good example, as obviously that would be a very topic-specific message board, unlike ILE which has such a wide range opf discussions. But perhaps ILE itself is the 'religion' - although being very welcoming to newcomers (I have always found), don't you think that anyone who rocks the boat too much or who is disrespectful to the community is eventually turned on (DaDa, perhaps?)

― C J (C J), Tuesday, 15 July 2003 14:10 (twenty-two years ago)

even calum has his defenders

― anthony easton (anthony), Tuesday, 15 July 2003 14:10 (twenty-two years ago)

I dunno CJ, it seems to me that people are turned by individuals if they piss the individual off, I've never really seen anyone totally vilified on here, as Anthony says - even calum has his defenders.

― smee (smee), Tuesday, 15 July 2003 14:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Ally brings all three of those!

The second and the third are just opposite sides of each other. One of the strengths of ILX is that there's no core ideology other than the idea that discussing things is worthwhile.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Tuesday, 15 July 2003 14:16 (twenty-two years ago)

"Prior to the Internet, the last technology that had any real effect on the way people sat down and talked together was the table." Haha. Discuss?

― Archel (Archel), Tuesday, 15 July 2003 14:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Don't you think there is a central 'core' of posters, though?

― C J (C J), Tuesday, 15 July 2003 14:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Of course. Has anyone ever had to say, "Ned to thread"?

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Tuesday, 15 July 2003 14:18 (twenty-two years ago)

What about sitting round the telly shouting at it?

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 15 July 2003 14:18 (twenty-two years ago)

CJ - well yeah, but that's just maths isn't it?

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 15 July 2003 14:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Who do we commonly vilify? Um, let's see: rockists, fun-haters, trolls, the bourgeoisise, common denominator culture, Smokers, anti-smokers, carnivores, Americans, non-Americans, people who like Nush in BB, Doomie... the list goes on.

― Mark C (Mark C), Tuesday, 15 July 2003 14:19 (twenty-two years ago)

I usually vilify Mark C.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 15 July 2003 14:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Doom Patrol/Doomie was for a period universally hated.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Tuesday, 15 July 2003 14:20 (twenty-two years ago)

nush must go!!

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 15 July 2003 14:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Today is not the day to be riling me, N., I'm in a foul mood. If there was any fun here I'd be hating it. And liking Hitler < /memes >

― Mark C (Mark C), Tuesday, 15 July 2003 14:23 (twenty-two years ago)

I blame HStencil.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 15 July 2003 14:24 (twenty-two years ago)

I never hated doomie as such. I never hate anyone though.

Dismissed by core group: anyone who uses the "it's commerical, manufactured soulless opium for the masses" line.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 15 July 2003 14:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Incidentally, almost 2 years ago me referring to ILX and its need for self-awareness on a community level got treated with scorn and contempt by people who now, hoepfully, know better.

― Mark C (Mark C), Tuesday, 15 July 2003 14:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Calum's only defended on principle, isn't he? I was meaning more Calum/whoever or whatever's causing ILX trouble that month, really. Also I'm not even sure it works, just trying to think of something that could fill that position.

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Tuesday, 15 July 2003 14:27 (twenty-two years ago)

What on earth are you on about now, Mark? What are we supposed to be doing?

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 15 July 2003 14:29 (twenty-two years ago)

I got bored and wandered off in the middle of the article because there wasn't anyone to flirt with.

― kate (kate), Tuesday, 15 July 2003 14:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Huh?

― Mark C (Mark C), Tuesday, 15 July 2003 14:34 (twenty-two years ago)

When I brought up the fact that ILXors had to be aware of what might happen to the board if it wasn't nurtured, protected and policed to a certain degree I got abused, Nick. Since then there have been many discussions on this theme. That's all.

― Mark C (Mark C), Tuesday, 15 July 2003 14:38 (twenty-two years ago)

I got bored and wandered off in the middle of the article because there wasn't anyone to flirt with.

That, and it's a boring article.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Tuesday, 15 July 2003 14:46 (twenty-two years ago)

I never hated Doomie.

― toraneko (toraneko), Tuesday, 15 July 2003 15:14 (twenty-two years ago)

my hate turned out to be a mask for love!!

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 15 July 2003 15:20 (twenty-two years ago)

I just hate everyone, it is easier that way.

― Lars (Nicole), Tuesday, 15 July 2003 15:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Man, did I ever hate Doomie! But he did behave pretty bizarrely. And he has since apologised. And half the "bizarre" crap turned out to not be him at all.

But I still stand by my assertions that a little bit of trollery is fundamentally good for a community, as it makes the community realise that it IS a community, and makes non-trolling members realise that they have some kind of responsibility to behave as if it was a community i.e. protect that community.

― kate (kate), Tuesday, 15 July 2003 15:27 (twenty-two years ago)

ILX has always been moderated Mark, and has dealt with trouble when it has found it. I am sorry if you ever got abused.

My mum used to be involved in the Rye Lane West Community Association. ILE doesn't seem to have very much in common with that. It didn't have any trolls as such but there was a man who was very loud.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 15 July 2003 15:29 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm on the committee of a group which used to have a real-life troll: he turned up to every AGM and made an everlasting whiney fuss about how the group was constitutionally unsound and the committee was a self-serving clique, but he never came to any other meeting or gathering, or made the slightest attempt to offer to take on any of the (unpaid and v.tiresome) responsibilities himself

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 15 July 2003 15:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Are you sure that wasn't Doomie?

― Lars (Nicole), Tuesday, 15 July 2003 15:45 (twenty-two years ago)

I am a rogue agent!

― jel -- (jel), Tuesday, 15 July 2003 16:47 (twenty-two years ago)

You are a rouge agent!

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 15 July 2003 16:53 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.x-traspecialcreations.com/monique/China%20doll.jpg

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 15 July 2003 16:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Man, did I ever hate Doomie! But he did behave pretty bizarrely. And he has since apologised. And half the "bizarre" crap turned out to not be him at all.

Pah. I never did.

I hate you all except Mark S. And maybe Suzy ; - ) (sorry Suzy, no email in ages and now it feels awkward) I know unconditionally love both of them because of our meetings.

― doom-e (register), Thursday, 24 July 2003 19:01 (twenty-two years ago)

I hold conditional love for Ally for her Showgirls impersonations, Jim for his love of indie and Dr C for the impersonations thread which made me laugh all morning, one day.

― doom-e (register), Thursday, 24 July 2003 19:08 (twenty-two years ago)

yay doomie. hey do you still want that CD with the Majic song on?

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Friday, 25 July 2003 03:37 (twenty-two years ago)

yes, oh jesus, yes!!!

i owe you the tasha lee cd, jim. at my new job it's easier for me to use the big ole anon post room (before i was always bopping around and what not...). i'm buying blank cds this weekend.

and tim i owe you a cd. i just have had no time or love for the post office.

― doom-e (register), Friday, 25 July 2003 04:45 (twenty-two years ago)

it's not that i hate, hate you all. i find you all sort of ridiculous. i mean, i would cross the street if any of you were in a car accident, but only if it was a particularly gruesome, car accident. so, you are all strangers, obviously.

― doom-e (register), Friday, 25 July 2003 04:58 (twenty-two years ago)

(norman, you are my friend as well!)

― doom-e (register), Friday, 25 July 2003 05:11 (twenty-two years ago)

the p0ptones website will soon be called "norman and sonny's music writing website (plus some record label or other)"

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Friday, 25 July 2003 05:15 (twenty-two years ago)

ha! norman, if you are reading this, you should do something else ... jim, do you want to write something for it? i have the tyde interview that i did (i have now officially quit careless talk, hooray) and an aidan smith thing ....

yeah, you should definitely write something for it jim - send it through when you are done!

― doom-e (register), Friday, 25 July 2003 05:22 (twenty-two years ago)

i got mad love to give

― gareth (gareth), Friday, 25 July 2003 07:53 (twenty-two years ago)

question: bank holiday weekend. would you go to stockholm, lisbon, helsinki or rekjavik?

― gareth (gareth), Friday, 25 July 2003 07:56 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm going to be in vienna, but go for rekjavik, i'll be there in september with boho american friends.

― doom-e, Friday, 25 July 2003 07:58 (twenty-two years ago)

baltimore

― Mary (Mary), Friday, 25 July 2003 08:09 (twenty-two years ago)

i was thinking pittsburgh but is expensive in august

― gareth (gareth), Friday, 25 July 2003 08:09 (twenty-two years ago)

perhaps i should go to toulouse. i should have gone to see my friend play a gig their earlier this year, but i was in LA:(

― gareth (gareth), Friday, 25 July 2003 08:10 (twenty-two years ago)

saratoga

― Mary (Mary), Friday, 25 July 2003 08:13 (twenty-two years ago)

whalley range?

― gareth (gareth), Friday, 25 July 2003 08:16 (twenty-two years ago)

you might find richmond (va's) west end more to your liking

― Mary (Mary), Friday, 25 July 2003 08:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Pittsburgh is crap!

― Ally (mlescaut), Friday, 25 July 2003 12:54 (twenty-two years ago)

nooooooooo

― gareth (gareth), Friday, 25 July 2003 12:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Si si senor. If I was in your position, I'd go to Lisbon but really Baltimore is more key THIS weekend, Gareth.

― Ally (mlescaut), Friday, 25 July 2003 12:59 (twenty-two years ago)

(er, next weekend?)

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 25 July 2003 13:37 (twenty-two years ago)

gareth and i discussed Pittsburgh - he's stolen my idea

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 25 July 2003 13:44 (twenty-two years ago)

No, no, Andrew, that was me trying to AVOID Gareth, you see...err. OK fine I just misspoke in my excitement, I'm sorry.

― Ally (mlescaut), Friday, 25 July 2003 14:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Back to Saratoga, then. Go to the Travers Stakes, you know you want to (and visit 163 Caroline while you're at it to see where I existed between 1982 and 1985).

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 25 July 2003 14:51 (twenty-two years ago)

It didn't have any trolls as such but there was a man who was very loud.

I love that.

― Matt (Matt), Saturday, 26 July 2003 01:58 (twenty-two years ago)

i was thinking pittsburgh but is expensive in august
Why in the world PITTSBURGH??? I don't get it-- is it actually an interesting city for one month?

― lyra (lyra), Saturday, 26 July 2003 03:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Pittsburgh is a charming and beautiful place, with rolling hills and sunswept locals. I believe G would stay no longer than an hour or so though.

― Mary (Mary), Saturday, 26 July 2003 04:55 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm up for wherever doomie isn't, until I get my own 4-in-1 grill tool

― Millar (Millar), Saturday, 26 July 2003 05:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Gareth + Millar is an occurrence that must be modulated.

― Mary (Mary), Saturday, 26 July 2003 05:04 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.djvibe.com/news/images/mod.oaky_photo.gif

― Dada, Saturday, 26 July 2003 05:10 (twenty-two years ago)

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