When I was 18 I learned that the 't' in 'often' is silent

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

Of course, with all these things, it reaches a point where dictionaries decide the wrong pronunciation or usage is an acceptable alternative. I'm not talking about regional variation - with words like 'often' and 'dour', it's just happened 'cause people have extrapolated a new pronounciation from the spelling.

― N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 19 July 2003 11:53 (twenty-two years ago)

And the 't' in 18 should be seen and not heard.

― The Real Halo James, Saturday, 19 July 2003 12:13 (twenty-two years ago)

i still pronounce the 't'

― stevem (blueski), Saturday, 19 July 2003 12:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh yeah, millions of people do. And if those that don't were pressed, many of them would probably say that those who do are being more correct and less lazy. Though when I found out, I told my mum and she said "Yes of course it should be silent!" and ripped the piss out of my dad, who is usually such a stickler for such things but for whom it was news.

― N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 19 July 2003 12:22 (twenty-two years ago)

I pronounce the 't' frequenly, but not always, depending on how busy I am.

― The Real Halo James, Saturday, 19 July 2003 12:31 (twenty-two years ago)

And the 't' in 18 should be seen and not heard.

Aiyeen!

― Scaredy Cat, Saturday, 19 July 2003 13:37 (twenty-two years ago)

I do not pronounce the "dastoo" in dastoor

― Mike Hanle y (mike), Saturday, 19 July 2003 13:45 (twenty-two years ago)

just say oft instead

― Chip Morningstar (bob), Saturday, 19 July 2003 15:12 (twenty-two years ago)

I was 18 - I learnt, not learned

― Saall Hu, Saturday, 19 July 2003 16:21 (twenty-two years ago)

this is a UK/US thing and is gonna end in tears and guns if we're not careful...

"when i was seven-een, i drank some very good beer"

I thought "provident" was pronounced "prodivident" til I was 13. And I thought "probably" was spelt "proverbly" as in, "proverbs would have it that...". Jeez.

― CharlieNo4 (Charlie), Saturday, 19 July 2003 16:36 (twenty-two years ago)

had learnt is past perfick.

― Darling Buds of Halo James, Saturday, 19 July 2003 16:39 (twenty-two years ago)

I think I was nineteen when I learned "subtle" wasn't pronounced SUB-tull.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 19 July 2003 16:53 (twenty-two years ago)

One of the locals down the village pub always says 'prezakkerly' instead of 'exactly', and he's not trying to be funny.

― C J (C J), Saturday, 19 July 2003 17:02 (twenty-two years ago)

There is an interesting book from the late 80s/early 90s that accommpanied a PBS series called _The Story of English_. In it they talk about things like "often//offen" and how they resulted from people migrating to the US from areas of England, Scotland, and Ireland that had different regional accents.

Interestingly, because of these regional differences and subsequent language development in the UK, U.S. Southern English is closer to Elizabethan English in its word usage and grammar than is modern Queen's English.

The book has the same title as the series, and worth the read.

― Orbit (Orbit), Saturday, 19 July 2003 17:19 (twenty-two years ago)

I've just started reading Bill Bryson's Mother Tongue and he has lots on variations of English and their origins. I think N is somewhat inaccurate when he says that the t in often is not regional. In my experience it tends to be precisely that - offen in the south and oftten in the north. Northern English tends to stick closer to the anglo-saxon roots, while the south has moved further away, as a general rule. As for 18, many people have a tendency to pronounce the t of eight followed by the t of teen; the first t being glottalised, rather than fully exploded, of course.

― Daniel (dancity), Saturday, 19 July 2003 17:33 (twenty-two years ago)

That's a really good example of glottalization that hadn't occurred to me before (I used to have a glottal stop in my name before I stopped trying to explain what a glottal stop was). Thanks, Daniel :)

― Tep (ktepi), Saturday, 19 July 2003 17:44 (twenty-two years ago)

You mean you finish Tep with a glottal stop, rather than a lovely, British aspirated P?

― Daniel (dancity), Saturday, 19 July 2003 17:47 (twenty-two years ago)

There's actually ... well, originally there was a glottal stop between the e and the p, cause there's an apostrophe there in the expanded version. I sort of consider the glottal stop the deleted scene in the director's cut of me.

― Tep (ktepi), Saturday, 19 July 2003 17:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Go on then - give us the unexpurgated version

― Daniel (dancity), Saturday, 19 July 2003 17:51 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm google-protecting myself! I'll use a 1 for the i and a ! for the apostrophe, though: Kte!p1 (kuh TEHP ee is how I do it now, but it used to be kuh TEH-glottal pee. See, Tep comes from the TEHP bit there.)

Changed my name when I was 15, and now you know the secret origin of Tep!

― Tep (ktepi), Saturday, 19 July 2003 17:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Best way of describing the glottal stop for most people is mentioning the second 't' in 'potato'. Loads of people glottalize that.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 19 July 2003 18:01 (twenty-two years ago)

For a lot (most?) of Americans, though, that's a d ("poh-tay-doh" or "puh-tay-doh," where the "puh" is the schwa sound that I don't feel like looking up the key combo for) -- see why British accents come off as posh?

― Tep (ktepi), Saturday, 19 July 2003 18:08 (twenty-two years ago)

You don't sound posh with a glottal stop in there!

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 19 July 2003 18:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Martin, I presume you're talking about the way the British 'drop' their T's.

― Daniel (dancity), Saturday, 19 July 2003 18:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Not quite, no, but ... hmm, I've been sort of musing on accent connotation in my head lately, but things have been busy. I think that to the American ear, glottalization -- because of its "sharpness," so to speak -- often sounds like more careful and deliberate enunciation, in contrast to our turning t's into d's and widespread elision and so on -- and more deliberately enunciated implies refined which implies the sort of thing I think of when I think "posh."

(But I'm not married to any of that, which is why I hadn't commented on the appropriate thread.)

(Whoops, crosspost, the "not quite" is re: the poshness.)

― Tep (ktepi), Saturday, 19 July 2003 18:22 (twenty-two years ago)

It depends on the word, though, and what's near the glottal. I really would need to think about this more before saying anything useful, and I haven't lived on the west coast, so I couldn't say anything about language perception there.

― Tep (ktepi), Saturday, 19 July 2003 18:24 (twenty-two years ago)

What about German? The Germans put glottal stops before every word and every syllable beginning with a vowel. So the word Verein is pronounced fair-[stop]-ine. So German can sound somewhat formal and over-careful to the British ear.

― Daniel (dancity), Saturday, 19 July 2003 18:29 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't know enough German -- "cigaretten, bitte," is the extent, if that's even spelled right -- but that would be great support for my idea, then :)

... God, that's a hell of a lot of glottalization.

― Tep (ktepi), Saturday, 19 July 2003 18:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Daniel, are you just guessing that a hard 't' in often is closer to the Anglo Saxon root of the word? Becuase I got the whole thing from a book on the history of English. I know that generally the Northern pronounciation of words is truer to the past (eg. the glass / glarss thing) but I'm not sure that it is in this case. I have to say I hadn't noticed a regional variation with 'often'/'offen' myself but maybe you're right.

I love all this stuff but am v.ignorant about it. I sometimes wish I had studied English Language at university. That woman who used to come in and talk about it on London Live was the best thing on the Robert Elms show.

― N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 19 July 2003 18:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh yeah, and I only learned quite recently that the learned/learnt thing was a UK/US difference.

― N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 19 July 2003 18:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, N. It's pure guesswork.

Tep, what Martin means is that when the British drop their Ts (and Hs for that matter) it doesn't sound smart or refined at all! Tony Blair occasionally does it to sound a bit more 'in with the people'.

― Daniel (dancity), Saturday, 19 July 2003 18:49 (twenty-two years ago)

But my mum has a fairly strong Stockport accent and she wouldn't be seen dead dropping the t in often!

― Daniel (dancity), Saturday, 19 July 2003 18:50 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't want to be seen dissing your mum.

― N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 19 July 2003 18:55 (twenty-two years ago)

btw - should it be 'dis' or 'diss'. Most people seem to spell it the latter way, but seeing as it's short for 'disrespect' (or so they taught me in 'How To Speak Hip' classes), just 'dis' would make more sense.

― N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 19 July 2003 18:57 (twenty-two years ago)

And talking of spelling - how did I manage to get 'pronunciation' right and wrong in my question? I have a block about that word.

― N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 19 July 2003 19:05 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd be inclined to spell diss with two Ss, so as to distinguish it from dis, as in Beat Dis!!

― Daniel (dancity), Saturday, 19 July 2003 19:09 (twenty-two years ago)

i spell it with three: it sounds more venomous

― mark s (mark s), Saturday, 19 July 2003 19:12 (twenty-two years ago)

The other week my current boss asked why there were silent letters in English and I said, quick as a flash, like, 'didn't they used to be pronounced?' so thank you, Nick, for providing the proof I was looking for. Some other show-off went on about some silent letters having been introduced in the 18th century to show the latino roots, e.g. debt.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Saturday, 19 July 2003 21:00 (twenty-two years ago)

The Germans put glottal stops before every word and every syllable beginning with a vowel.

Again, that comes down to regional accents too.

North Germans glottalisify (neologist, I?) far less frequently than their southern counterparts, since north German (esp Hamburg & Hannover) accents are generally softer than, say, Bavarian - the latter is the stereotypical German people always think of though, so the more lilting and (to these ears at least) beautiful Nordddeutsch accent doesn't get the props it deserves.

― CharlieNo4 (Charlie), Saturday, 19 July 2003 21:13 (twenty-two years ago)

thank you, Nick, for providing the proof I was looking for

b-but, I didn't.

― N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 19 July 2003 21:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Sometimes I think that the only people who can speak English properly are the Germans. I love to hear their wonderfully precise pronunciation. Come to think of it, English with any accent but an English one is always a delight.

Is it true that peoples' first impression of English is that it sounds all "ish-mish-pish-tish"?

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Saturday, 19 July 2003 21:25 (twenty-two years ago)

It's more "nee-nee-mun-pish"

― N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 19 July 2003 21:30 (twenty-two years ago)

This is an interesting subject - 'your language sounds like X'. Apparently, to Japanese speakers English sounds like pero pero pero pero. Or maybe it's pera pera pera pera. One of them is the Japanese onomatapoeia for the sound of licking. Confusing.

― Daniel (dancity), Saturday, 19 July 2003 22:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Sometimes, when I am having trouble eavesdropping on a conversation (esp. if they have strong regional accents) I try to turn off the higher-level language processing functions of my brain and hear it as a foreign language. It's interesting. It's like staring in the mirror and trying to see my face as a stranger's.

― N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 19 July 2003 22:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Whenever I read the word "misled" I thought it was pronounced "my-uld".
I had the piss ripped out of me for ages for pronouncing "polo", "pole-o" not "po-lo", althugh i don't see why it can't be.
I found out that "premise" is not pronounced "pre-mize" last year.

man i'm dumb

― dog latin (dog latin), Sunday, 20 July 2003 15:04 (twenty-two years ago)

dog latin did you mention the "pole-o vs po-lo" thing before? it seems both baffling — er how are they not the same? — and totally familiar...

― mark s (mark s), Sunday, 20 July 2003 15:16 (twenty-two years ago)

So dog latin do you pronounce J-Lo 'jail-oh'?

― Daniel (dancity), Sunday, 20 July 2003 16:18 (twenty-two years ago)

The Barbarians got their name from the Romans thinking their language sounded like "bar, bar, bar...," or so I heard. My favorite dropped "t" is Mark E Smith harangue of the audience member with "Yeah, well don't make a career ou' of it!"

― nickn (nickn), Sunday, 20 July 2003 22:05 (twenty-two years ago)

why did he drop the "t' on "out" and not on "don't"? my guess = pissed

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Sunday, 20 July 2003 22:08 (twenty-two years ago)

"dog latin did you mention the "pole-o vs po-lo" thing before? it seems both baffling — er how are they not the same? — and totally familiar... "

possibly, i thought people were making a little too big a deal out of it at the time but they all found it especially funny. Can't say much for my friends then can I. The difference may not be too obvious in an American accent but if you're posh british it's pronounced

"po" as in "pope"
"lo" ad in "j-lo"

but i said it
"po" as in the o in "mole" or something. just do it in a toffy english accent like me and my hi-falutin chums, i'm sure you'll find it rivettingly tittlesome.

― dog latin (dog latin), Monday, 21 July 2003 00:51 (twenty-two years ago)

I think that the 't' is not silent in 'often'.

― Ally (mlescaut), Monday, 21 July 2003 00:52 (twenty-two years ago)

You think what you like.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 21 July 2003 07:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Going out on a limb here - I'm pretty sure that a sounded t in often isn't a regionalism, but is just wrong. Who pronounces the t in "soften"?

― Sam (chirombo), Monday, 21 July 2003 07:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Hmm... I agree with your conclusion but not your reasoning, Sam. Since when it English ever consistent?

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 21 July 2003 07:23 (twenty-two years ago)

btw I am kind of bewildered as to the difference between dog latin's two polo variants. The 'o' in 'pope' and 'mole' is surely the same?

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 21 July 2003 07:26 (twenty-two years ago)

not the 'o' in 'pope' is produced further forward in the mouth, because its between two bilabial plosives - the tongue is already far forward. in 'mole' the tongues is getting ready for the 'l', which is further back....couldnt try and hazard a guess as to the correct IPa symbols but theyre definately different. try sticking yr hand in yr mouth and seeing where your tongue is when you say the two words - do this in private obv. otherwise people think you are a freak (bear in mind i had to do this in front of a class of 20 people, however)

― ambrose (ambrose), Monday, 21 July 2003 08:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, I kind of did this and realised my tongue moved differently in preparation for the next syllable, but it still sounds practically the same to me, especially when the two are transposed to 'po-lo' or err.. 'pole-o'. Oh god, maybe it doesn't. This is making my head spin and I am now leaving ILE for a while.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 21 July 2003 08:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Who pronounces the t in "soften"?

(removes hand from mouth, raises it)

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 21 July 2003 09:33 (twenty-two years ago)

If I drop the "t", "often" sounds like "Affen" (=monkeys). So I guess I'll just keep saying "off-tn" to avoid confusion.

― Sommermute (Wintermute), Monday, 21 July 2003 10:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Ambrose, why not check for yourself:
http://www.arts.gla.ac.uk/IPA/fullchart.html

I haven't entirely followed the polo/pol-o/mole thing, but I hope this helps.

― Daniel (dancity), Monday, 21 July 2003 10:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Sam, often and soften are not the same case. Your conclusion that it's simply wrong is more than a little harsh, given the large swaths of the population that pronounce it that way. Incidentally, a quick look in the Oxford dictionary shows that either pron is acceptable. I res' my case. Oh and soften is pronounced sofn and that's it. As N says English is a long way from being a logical language.

― Daniel (dancity), Monday, 21 July 2003 10:25 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah the problem is i never got my head around all the vowel sounds wrt the IPA in the first place.

also, the OED is not a reference work people! nothing suggested in the OED is 'acceptable'! with these views you are really upsetting 150 yrs of OED philosphy, ambassador!

― ambrose (ambrose), Monday, 21 July 2003 10:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Incidentally, a quick look in the Oxford dictionary shows that either pron is acceptable.

I made the point in my initial post that the dictionary gives both. But if enough people start saying something some way, they have to eventually give it as an alternative. But maybe I'm wrong and it's always been there. I'm off to look for an old edition.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 21 July 2003 10:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, that didn't take long. As late as 1986 the Oxford Dictionary was only giving one pronuncation and guess what - the 't' is silent.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 21 July 2003 10:48 (twenty-two years ago)

The OED is not a reference work, but it is usually a reasonable guide to how people pronounce things

― Daniel (dancity), Monday, 21 July 2003 11:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Sorry, but to be clear, you're saying it should be 'offen'? That's mentalism.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 21 July 2003 11:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Sorry Andrew. Life is a vale of mentalism.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 21 July 2003 11:11 (twenty-two years ago)

This thread seems like one big "I know something you don't" from N., who then flounders as other people prove they know stuff too. But then I'm just bitter cos I pronounce the t.

"Out of it" = a'ahvi' in Londonish, no?

― Mark C (Mark C), Monday, 21 July 2003 11:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Well I didn't mean to come across as quite such a reactionary. And yes descriptive/prescriptive blah and written/spoken feedback blah, so maybe it's impossible to untangle. But surely there's a useful distinction to be made between "pronunciation which has become more common as people followed the spelling" and "pronunciation which illiterate people perhaps used back in the day which follow 'natural' verbal English rhythms".

Calling one "right" and the other "wrong" isn't that harsh is it?

― Sam (chirombo), Monday, 21 July 2003 12:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Mark don't be mean to me. Wouldn't it be crueller to withhold my exciting information and just laugh quietly at all the people pronouncing the 't'. Anyway, where am I floundering?

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 21 July 2003 12:08 (twenty-two years ago)

i dont think i would ever use the OED as a guide as to pronounce things. the only way to me to check how a word is pronounced is to ask as many speakers of that language how they pronounce it.
or just ask one. or ask yourself.

the pronunciation guide in the OED is pretty troublesome. they dont really seem to have much clear policy over it, not like actual inclusion of words (must be in print etc.). so, its kinda analogue. they just sort of use their judgement. which isnt always bad, but the OED is by definition always out of date.

re: 'right' and 'wrong'. try 'standard' and 'non-standard'...

― ambrose (ambrose), Monday, 21 July 2003 12:11 (twenty-two years ago)

As in '"3" is a non-standard solution to "What does 1 plus 1 equal?"'.

― Sam (chirombo), Monday, 21 July 2003 12:14 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, why not?

sounds good to me....

― ambrose (ambrose), Monday, 21 July 2003 12:40 (twenty-two years ago)

As a teacher of English as a foreign language I have to deal with different levels of (what you might call) acceptability all the time. Some 'mistakes' are more like linguistic bad habits that have become commonplace and widely used and eventually accepted. There are others that, for the purposes of my classes, are simply no go. In my line of work I can't just have a completely laissez-faire attitude to rules of language - my clients would end up talking absolute rubbish!!

One example that's on the borderline and illustrates my dilemma is INNIT. Innit is incorrect as far as my language classes are concerned. Especially so when it is used instead of wouldn't he / didn't you / hasn't she etc. I'm prepared to explain to my students that it exists in some forms of English, but they (the student) would end up looking a bit foolish if they tried to use it.

Maybe you would explain it differently, but this is just an example of the issues I'm talking about.

The problem is, ambrose, that you don't always have a random selection of people to ask when resolving pron difficulties. Looking up a word in the OED is for the most part a pretty reliable guide.

Sam, your distinction between the language spoken by illiterate people and that picked up over time makes more sense than the right and wrong you spoke of earlier. I still believe - based on experience - that the often thing is indeed regional, for whatever reason.

― Daniel (dancity), Monday, 21 July 2003 15:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Am I the only one who is now reading 'pron' as 'pr0n'?

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 21 July 2003 15:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Haha, no, I am too.

Anyway, "Oh god, maybe it doesn't. This is making my head spin and I am now leaving ILE for a while." You did ask.

My better half mocks me for pronouncing fifth "fith" & sixth "sikth". I never even noticed I did. Where on the Dasto0r scale of linguistic wrongness does that come?

― Mark C (Mark C), Monday, 21 July 2003 15:09 (twenty-two years ago)

I really, really dislike obvious mispronounciation and is accent ever an excuse unless I use it sometime?

vunrable? manafacturing? fith and sikth, ugh, ugh.

― RJG (RJG), Monday, 21 July 2003 15:12 (twenty-two years ago)

That's just laziness. RJG gets at me for similar things (ha crosspost - here he is!)

Oh - that's me floundering, I see. Yeah, well I am still wanting to hear a tape of dog latin saying 'polo' the way that makes people mock him. The head spinning was from me mouthing it over and over at my desk and, as ambrose predicted, feeling like a freak.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 21 July 2003 15:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Okay, new Fowleresque theory: ofTen is a genteelism and thus unnatural. "Fith" on the other hand, is the natural way to say the word, so is fine. It's the OVER-carefulness of ofTen I don't like.

― Sam (chirombo), Monday, 21 July 2003 15:15 (twenty-two years ago)

sikth was my first lesson in pronunciation relativism: I always used to laugh at how they let someone on the Norn Iron news that would get such a common word wrong, until I realised that everyone on the British news got it wrong all the time, and maybe I was wrong.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 21 July 2003 15:17 (twenty-two years ago)

(People who sound the tea put the milk in first.)

― Sam (chirombo), Monday, 21 July 2003 15:17 (twenty-two years ago)

yes yes but is the E silent?

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 21 July 2003 15:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Saying 'sixth' and 'fifth' 'properly' 'is' a bit of a mouthful. I'm all in favour of pronunciation that evolved to make mouth and tongue movements more natural.

Though I draw the line at 'pacific' for 'specific'.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 22 July 2003 08:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Sam, I know what you mean about over-carefulness (if such a word exists). I don't have a problem with the t in often, but I can't stand it when people pronounce the t in Watford or football. Or the the d in Wood Green, or the n in Green Park (as opposed to a bilabial in readiness for the p of Park) etc etc.

― Daniel (dancity), Tuesday, 22 July 2003 09:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Unnaturalness is the big enemy here, I feel.

― Daniel (dancity), Tuesday, 22 July 2003 09:50 (twenty-two years ago)

I fear Daniel has queered Sam's pitch.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 22 July 2003 10:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Can you explain this expression please N?

― Daniel (dancity), Tuesday, 22 July 2003 10:29 (twenty-two years ago)

queer sb's pitch British & Australian
to spoil someone's chances of doing something

'doing something' in this case = convincing people that dropping of phonemes in certain words is a positive development.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 22 July 2003 10:39 (twenty-two years ago)

i'll try and revise. I'd have a go at writing phonetics but i have no way of putting the symbols on ILE.

The way I pronounce it is more cockney, with the first "o" sounding a bit like the o in "owl". Therefore it comes out a bit like "paulo" / "pah-oh-lo" or something. My posh friends think this is hilarious as they pronounce it closer to something like "puh-oh-lo". Do you see? No.

― dog latin (dog latin), Tuesday, 22 July 2003 11:37 (twenty-two years ago)

"pronunciation that evolved to make mouth and tongue movements more natural"

er this is kinda all pronunciation. insofar as that language moves towards two goals (that admittedly be opposed) - ease of articulation and ease of communication...

― ambrose (ambrose), Tuesday, 22 July 2003 11:41 (twenty-two years ago)

i actually have a pronunciation problem with my boy...his name is some zany scottish spelling and sounds a little different with every person that says it. and it ends with a 'd' that sounds like a 't' most of the time, but sometimes is softer than that and sometimes it actually sounds like a 'd'. i have problems with this, considering that i'm an american and it is always pointed out to me that i pronounce everything wrong anyway. now i can't even say my boyfriend's name right!

maybe i should look for someone named 'bob' or something

― colette (a2lette), Tuesday, 22 July 2003 11:42 (twenty-two years ago)

No, you'd probably pronounce it 'barb'.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 22 July 2003 11:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, go for someone called N instead.

― Sam (chirombo), Tuesday, 22 July 2003 12:00 (twenty-two years ago)

"Bahb", surely?

― Mark C (Mark C), Tuesday, 22 July 2003 12:01 (twenty-two years ago)

As in bobbed wire?

― Daniel (dancity), Tuesday, 22 July 2003 12:34 (twenty-two years ago)

What about the g in sing or bring? (I think that is on a similar level to the t in often.) It's certainly not RP, but many people explode both Gs in 'singing'.

― Daniel (dancity), Friday, 25 July 2003 06:49 (twenty-two years ago)

pronouncing the "g" in words like "bring" or "sing" makes you sound like Boris and Natasha/moose-and-squirrel.

― Tad (llamasfur), Friday, 25 July 2003 06:51 (twenty-two years ago)

or like someone from the west midlands

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Friday, 25 July 2003 08:30 (twenty-two years ago)

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.