Grant Morrison Leaves New X-Men

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Sigh.

David R. (popshots75`), Saturday, 19 July 2003 13:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Sidebar: what the hell do the words "TOO COSMIC" have to do w/ turning down a no-doubt would-be successful mini-series from one of The Guys in the field?

David R. (popshots75`), Saturday, 19 July 2003 13:40 (twenty-two years ago)

They've done that a ton of times before with high-profile writers, though. That's just Marvel's policy -- they don't have as much money to risk as DC and there's so little in the market to prove them wrong. People don't buy "cosmic" series (... says the policy, I mean, and the market).

It's a shame he won't be on X-Men, but the DC deal sounds good to me -- I loved his JLA stuff (not to mention Animal Man).

Tep (ktepi), Saturday, 19 July 2003 13:58 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd be just as happy to see him back on JLA as I am with him on X-Men. I'd like it if he did at least some big-guns stuff, maybe Superman for a while or something like that. Supes has been mega-dull for ages.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 19 July 2003 14:29 (twenty-two years ago)

I see yr point, Tep, but then I look @ his New X-Men run & all the wacky Shi'ar stuff going down (never mind a character who has a sun in his brain), and I fail to see how that's not "too cosmic". "Too cosmic" in comics = "too many notes" in classical music (that is, it might be a valid criticism sometimes, but it sounds like a cop-out).

I know Morrison leaving was inevitable, & it's the way of the world (cf. Marvel recently firing Mark Waid from the Fantastic Four to "change direction" - that is, to possibly groom the title into the family comedy type thing the movie is supposedly going to be) (&, you know, just about every other hero title), but it's disappointing, given what he's done w/ the title (making the mutants more mutant-like, making the "boring" characters interesting, shaking up the status quo in a GOOD way, etc etc). I'm gonna miss that, & I fear Marvel is going to switch to a caretaker type of writer (cf. those couple of months where Chuck Austen wrote about 15 titles).

But, yeah, Morrison monkeying around in DC's sandbox again sounds like fun. There seems to be lots of interesting stuff going down over there - Jeff Smith working on Captain Marvel (the red/yellow one), Kyle Baker on Plastic Man, the Azarello / Risso Batman arc, and stuff and stuff.

David R. (popshots75`), Saturday, 19 July 2003 14:56 (twenty-two years ago)

I think "cosmic" is as much a "what you think it is before you've read it" thing as anything else, if that makes sense ... like, it's one thing for the X-Men to go up against the Shi'ar, but when it's Silver Surfer, forget it (and how great would a Morrison Silver Surfer series be? I mean damn...) It's how they can market it ... I think. I don't really understand the thinking, but it's come up with people asking about Silver Surfer and Dr Strange series, and Peter David's Captain Marvel series.

The whole cosmic thing -- everything from Galactus to Dark Phoenix to the hoary hosts of Hoggoth to Dormammu -- man, that's one of the comics' and the Marvel Universe's strong points. Where else do you find anything remotely like any of that?

... Jeff Smith is working on Captain Marvel?

Tep (ktepi), Saturday, 19 July 2003 15:05 (twenty-two years ago)

SHAZAM!

Also, looky here.

David R. (popshots75`), Saturday, 19 July 2003 15:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh man that's cool! This is what I get for not reading much DC anymore (well, other than some Vertigo titles). That is so going on my pull list.

Tep (ktepi), Saturday, 19 July 2003 15:41 (twenty-two years ago)

I stopped reading comics after Sandman ended (it was kinda expensive) but I've kept a wee bit of tabs on my fave writers (Grant's run on DOOM PATROL is what got me REAL excited about comics in the first place) and I've been slackjawed at how successful he's been since I stopped reading his stuff (haven't read any since the 20somethingish issue of Invisibles). What would people recommend of him recently? I assume the early JLA stuff will be suggested.

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 19 July 2003 17:24 (twenty-two years ago)

All his JLAs are, for me, among the best superhero stories ever. The climactic storyline is hilariously over the top andgreat, but you have to have read what goes before too.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 19 July 2003 17:31 (twenty-two years ago)

JLA, and it isn't recent but I think it's been reissued in TPB -- if you haven't read his Animal Man, well, do so. I think JLA is what gave him his current Huge Mainstream Success; it was one of those rare times when someone came along to a hoary well-trod title and managed to do things with it which were both obvious and yet new. It isn't all gold, but it's a good run.

(And this isn't Morrison, but there's a new Gaiman-written Endless Nights anthology very soon, in case you weren't aware. For that matter, you might like Mike Carey's Lucifer.)

Tep (ktepi), Saturday, 19 July 2003 17:31 (twenty-two years ago)

I had a couple issues of Animal Man. Too much of it was Captain Planet for me (instead of just discussing realworld pollution issues we watch a guy in tights fight the Smogmaster).

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 19 July 2003 17:33 (twenty-two years ago)

It gets much better -- I know what you mean, and I think later writers were much worse about that but "Vertigo-ized," but the last arc is great (and Morrison admits in it that he'd been having trouble keeping his personal ethics out of the book).

Tep (ktepi), Saturday, 19 July 2003 17:38 (twenty-two years ago)

I actually had that last arc, which while an improvement, still left me a bit cold (plus I don't dig the artist).

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 19 July 2003 18:32 (twenty-two years ago)

this Grant Morrison leaving the X-Men is annoying news.

what are the reprint books of his JLA called? I think I've seen them in shops, but I've been very struck by the lame art in them, and this has not encouraged me to buy them.

DV (dirtyvicar), Saturday, 19 July 2003 20:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, the art is distinctly poor. Also, some of it is worth reading in order - it'd be a shame to read the climactic story without having read the first appearances of Prometheus, the new Shaggy Man and Wonderworld. I don't know what the collections are called, I'm afraid.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 19 July 2003 21:47 (twenty-two years ago)

that cartoon character Animal Man issue was great--forget the title

s1utsky (slutsky), Saturday, 19 July 2003 21:57 (twenty-two years ago)

#5, with the Wile E. Coyote story - magnificent, and more or less a statement of what the next 20 issues would be about.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 19 July 2003 22:01 (twenty-two years ago)

So I should check out the rest of his run? I think I got hold that issue of sort of randomly when it came out and never followed up, weird for me because I loved that story.

s1utsky (slutsky), Saturday, 19 July 2003 22:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, Martin's exactly right, that issue is like the remainder of the run in microcosm (so for re-reading, it's one of the most fun). The tone of the other issues isn't the same, but the themes are.

Tep (ktepi), Saturday, 19 July 2003 22:32 (twenty-two years ago)

First, I'd like to stand up and say I like the work of both Howard Porter (JLA) & Chas Truog (Animal Man), tho the former might qualify as an acquired taste.

JLA trade paperback info is here - page down a bit. Looks like the first 6 JLA volumes cover Morrison's run.

Also worth checking out (re: Anthony's inquiry) - the first New X-Men collection (_E is For Extinction_?), _Sebastian O_ (Vertigo mini - not collected, interestingly enough), _Fantastic Four 1234_ (a neat li'l Marvel Knights mini), and ... and ... well, shit, I'd recommend just about anything he wrote. (Yeah, I'm a bit of a fanboy.) _The Filth_ (recent Vertigo mini that's finishing up soon) is probably better to approach when it's completed - it's saucy sci-fi. (Oddly enough, the only story element I can recall right now is "flying killer sperm".)

David R. (popshots75`), Saturday, 19 July 2003 23:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Here's a list of all his comic work.

David R. (popshots75`), Saturday, 19 July 2003 23:13 (twenty-two years ago)

One of which I edited! Hurrah!

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Sunday, 20 July 2003 08:34 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't think Grant Morrison is an Everything He Does Is Brilliant writer... the first issue of The Filth did not inspire me to read on, and I seem to remember Sebastian O being a bit fatuous. The Invisibles definitely had its moments but largely trailed off into pointlessness.

DV (dirtyvicar), Sunday, 20 July 2003 18:15 (twenty-two years ago)

This is a shame, I was just getting into New X-men the last few issues. Ah well. I guess I should be glad I haven't become a comic book geek.

Larcole (Nicole), Sunday, 20 July 2003 20:59 (twenty-two years ago)

I give it two years max. (Yer boytoy will eventually give in to Scott Walker.)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 20 July 2003 22:42 (twenty-two years ago)

For the record, i wrote most of that story. The editor saw fit to add the bit about the panel being dominated by industry-related conversation and Mr. Morrison leaving the X-Men. That stuff was certainly a part of it, but far, far from the whole.

He actually spent a fair bit of time talking about emergence and other related topics. 4th+ dimensional existence, superheroic mythology, magic/magick, making fun of Alan Moore and some interplay with Mark Waid. That article is being rewritten to more accurately reflect this. But that will happen later.

After i get some sleep.

mmmmm....sleep....

Matt Maxwell (Matt M.), Monday, 21 July 2003 03:46 (twenty-two years ago)

For some reason (my being a reactionary) I'm happier with GM on DC than on Marvel so I say 'hurrah'. Good though the new X-Men was it was no JLA, I think cos there's something about the 'iconic' characters that keep's Grant's own reactionary tendencies in check.

Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Monday, 21 July 2003 07:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Shed no tears ov Marvel Boy 2: the original was just Grant comes up with ideas, slaps them all together (see also Skull Kill Krew)

Reactionary in what way, Tico?

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 21 July 2003 09:36 (twenty-two years ago)

The part of him that's still fighting the old battles against the square 80s comic establishment.

Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Monday, 21 July 2003 10:02 (twenty-two years ago)

DAMNIT. That is some day-ruining news, as New X-Men is one of my fave comics going. Well, I knew it wouldn't last forever.

The Grant JLA stuff I read was okay, I liked the touches of standard Grantish weirdness and self-aware humor, but I still prefer the kind of character-driven, 'serious' book that he was doing with the X-Men. The only possible way this could be a good thing for me is if he picked up a Batman title.

Btw, the only Animal Man issue I read was Grant's last issue where he puts himself in the comic as the creator having a discussion with his creation. It was meta as fuck and well done, but I didn't feel like I had to read anything else in the series.

Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 21 July 2003 14:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Btw, the only Animal Man issue I read was Grant's last issue where he puts himself in the comic as the creator having a discussion with his creation. It was meta as fuck and well done, but I didn't feel like I had to read anything else in the series.

jaysus, that sounds like something Dave Sim would do (i.e. pomo shite).

DV (dirtyvicar), Monday, 21 July 2003 14:45 (twenty-two years ago)

well yes but grant morrison's pomo shite is so charming

Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 21 July 2003 14:52 (twenty-two years ago)

five months pass...
Joss Whedon is replacing him? As much as I love Buffy etc. this sounds like a very bad idea.

El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Tuesday, 6 January 2004 21:15 (twenty-two years ago)

PHEAR

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 6 January 2004 21:52 (twenty-two years ago)

From what I've gleaned on various comic rumour sites, there's going to be a year's-plus delay between GM taking off (w/ #154) and Whedon (& John Cassaday) jumping on. The 2 issues directly following GM's sendoff will be in the hands of Chuck Austen (cf. Dan's PHEAR), with speculation that Neil Gaiman & Peter Milligan would have 6 issues each leading up to Whedon's arrival. Gaiman's denied his half of that rumour, tho.

I'm curious about this li'l change - there's a bit of a Kitty Pryde / Colossus / Woverine Danger Room vibe re: the interplay between Buffy characters, & Whedon did ghostwrite the first X-Men movie script (yeah, I'll "whoop dee doo" for all the non-plussed out there - curious folks can probably Google about 76 instances where Whedon complains about Halle Berry's handling of the lightning / Toad denouement). Interesting to note that while Whedon plies his Claremont-inspired trade on the New X-Men, Chris Claremont will be doing HIS thing over on _Uncanny_ (w/ Alan Davis) (unless Marvel, in the next 12-18 months, decides to boot Claremont off the series) (again).

David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 6 January 2004 22:06 (twenty-two years ago)

I must say I leafed through a recent issue of X-Treme X-Men (Storm back in Japan) and was shocked to discover that Claremont can actually still write something that I like!

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 6 January 2004 22:08 (twenty-two years ago)

curious folks can probably Google about 76 instances where Whedon complains about Halle Berry's handling of the lightning / Toad denouement

Which always annoyed me because there was no way that line could have been handled well, it was just stoopid. It was out of character and might have worked on a show like Buffy but in no way fit with this particular scene.

El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Tuesday, 6 January 2004 22:10 (twenty-two years ago)

He talks about it in the Onion interview

http://www.theonionavclub.com/avclub3731/avfeature_3731.html

which also contains the great line

"I did looplines for The Getaway, the Alec Baldwin/Kim Basinger version. If you look carefully at The Getaway, you'll see that when people's backs are turned, or their heads are slightly out of frame, the whole movie has a certain edge to it."

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Tuesday, 6 January 2004 22:27 (twenty-two years ago)

On the other hand, he did write hands-down the best line in the film.

Did anyone buy Fray, that 200-years-after-buffy comic that he wrote? And be willing to talk about it?

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Tuesday, 6 January 2004 22:29 (twenty-two years ago)

'curious folks can probably Google about 76 instances where Whedon complains about Halle Berry's handling of the lightning / Toad denouement'

haha what, it's Halle Berry's fault now? she only had like two lines in the movie! and i'm pretty sure one of them was "Math is hard"

Adrian (Adrian Langston), Tuesday, 6 January 2004 23:13 (twenty-two years ago)

The script's treatment of Storm was pretty close to unforgivable in that first movie.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 6 January 2004 23:15 (twenty-two years ago)

I wonder if the script included the always-entertaining Metamorphing Accent.

David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 6 January 2004 23:54 (twenty-two years ago)

"Deemed Too Cosmic"....by the company that put out The Infinity (Gauntlet|War|Crusade)? WTF!?

Lord Custos Omicron (Lord Custos Omicron), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 03:27 (twenty-two years ago)

where comic book fandom ends and comic book nerdom begins?

you guys are all so down with the latest hip comic book newzzzz. so imprezssedd.

Ian Johnson (orion), Thursday, 8 January 2004 07:18 (twenty-two years ago)

and,so, while we're on the subject:

is x-treme x-men worth reading? is it contemporaneous with the other x-books? is it LAME like Excalibur was? Dave's comments imply something vaguely positive for Claremont's writing.

Ian Johnson (orion), Thursday, 8 January 2004 07:26 (twenty-two years ago)

that cartoon character Animal Man issue was great--forget the title
"The Coyote Gospel"

Lord Custos Omicron (Lord Custos Omicron), Thursday, 8 January 2004 07:48 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.illiteraterainbow.com/colours/fun/Animal_Man-Coyote_Gospel-s.jpg

Chuck Tatum (Chuck Tatum), Thursday, 8 January 2004 18:28 (twenty-two years ago)

I only read the first three or four of Claremont's Extreme X-Men, and they were astoundingly terrible.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Friday, 9 January 2004 18:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Btw, can I just say how good New X-Men #150 was? The whole Magneto-as-out-of-touch-junkie thing was a little shaky at first, but he really brought it together I thought.

I don't read any of the other X-Men titles. They seem very, very crappy.

Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 9 January 2004 19:02 (twenty-two years ago)

X-Statix is great, though perhaps an acquired taste (also the current arc is a bit ropey as they decided on short notice not to have a resurrected Princess Diana as a member of the team)

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 9 January 2004 19:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, with "on short notice" meaning "after 1/2 of the 6-part arc has been written AND drawn". All they really did was change the character's name and hair color, too - instead of Di, there's a raven-haired pop singer whose favorite charities are EXACTLY THE SAME as Di's. (Landmines, anyone?)

Dave's comments imply something vaguely positive for Claremont's writing.

I used to be a HUGE unapologetic fan of Claremont, but that's been tempered a lot by A) hitting puberty, and B) folks like Martin (& Paul O'Brien - his X-Axis site is U&K for folks wanting to get up to speed on Mutantville USA) noting that, in fact, his recent work has been lacking. I guess he's improved a bit (cf. Dan's comment on recent UXM stuff), and I am curiously interested in his return to Uncanny (& his JLA arc w/ John Byrne & Jerry Ordway - oh, nostalgia), but I would approach anything Mr. Claremont writes nowadays with EXTREME caution.

David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 9 January 2004 19:48 (twenty-two years ago)

I wasn't sure about Magneto in #150. I love Grant's writing, as you know, but I thought he should have reacted more to some of his cronies telling him that what he was doing resembled the Holocaust - there could hardly be more of a touchy area for him, and he should have got angrier. To be honest, the comparisons were so unmistakeable that I wasn't wholly convinced by his not seeing them and having doubts. I know Kick was affecting his behaviour, but I thought this was a stretch.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Friday, 9 January 2004 22:37 (twenty-two years ago)

On the plus side, Morrison is still writing "The Authority".
Thats got to count for something.

Lord Custos Omicron (Lord Custos Omicron), Friday, 9 January 2004 23:45 (twenty-two years ago)

You must be confusing Grant (the Morrison Ernest Z. Fanboy really, really likes) with Robbie (the Morrison Mr. Fanboy wants to string up & flay for supposedly ruining _The Authority_).

David R. (popshots75`), Saturday, 10 January 2004 00:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Who the fuck is Robbie Morrison. I was told that Grant Morrison was supposed to take over the series after Mark Millar left. WTF!?

Lord Custos Omicron (Lord Custos Omicron), Saturday, 10 January 2004 04:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, I was excited for a moment seeing 'Morrison' on the cover (oddly, they don't give the forename...).

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 10 January 2004 12:30 (twenty-two years ago)

I read Fray. I love Joss Whedon. Fray sucked.

I'm not holding my breath for anything better on New X-Men.

J (Jay), Saturday, 10 January 2004 13:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Grant ghostwrote a couple of Millar's Authority issues. I think 'Religimon' is amongst one of his more classic throwaways.

Barima (Barima), Saturday, 10 January 2004 14:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Rub his belly and achieve eternal salvation for just pennies a day!
But Wait, There's MORE!
He comes with 100 extra fabulous Religimon power game trading cards!
Noooooow how much would you pay!?

Lord Custos Omicron (Lord Custos Omicron), Saturday, 10 January 2004 16:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Very good point, Martin. I'll have to go re-read that part.

Jordan (Jordan), Saturday, 10 January 2004 18:33 (twenty-two years ago)


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