M Atwood 'Oryx & Crake'

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JG Ballard - "Even the worst sci-fi is better than the best regular fi", I think he meant that lit'ry authors are all like "Oh wow I've got this amazing idea" without knowing that pulp-genre specialists have already had those ideas and are have already extrapolated way further on them. I liked this book though cuz it made me think about where my 'life' is going. Specifically it made me think, "what the fuck am I doing living in this shithole when I could've had a pass to the Compound if I'd just stayed put?" It's not too late tho. As soon as I get my shit together it's back to West Can and a life of insulated ease, the one I should've had if I hadn't been 'curious' and 'adventurous' ie stupid. (cf Naughty by Nature, "If you're not from the ghetto you won't understand the ghetto so STAY THE FUCK AWAY from the ghetto") When the great divide between the compound and the jungle comes 4 Real make sure you've got your security pass, that's the message I got. Anyway for anybody who's read this, a) how do you think it compared to 'Atomised'? b) 'wolvogs' = the underclass?

dave q, Tuesday, 22 July 2003 08:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Is Atwood sci-fi or does she play at it (and if so does she get it right). I found The Handmade's Tale a lot more satisfying when I read it as sci-fi.

Pete (Pete), Tuesday, 22 July 2003 13:05 (twenty-two years ago)

She calls The Handmaid's Tale and Oryx and Crake 'speculative fiction'.

Compound or no Compound, you're still dead.

Archel (Archel), Tuesday, 22 July 2003 13:09 (twenty-two years ago)

"Even the worst sci-fi is better than the best regular fi"

TS: sci-fi vs. non-fi. These past few years I've been finding both genres waay more interesting (and full of original ideas) than regular-fi.

Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 22 July 2003 13:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Oryx & Crake = 28 days later

cybele (cybele), Tuesday, 22 July 2003 13:55 (twenty-two years ago)

I like crime fiction. I've just discovered Thomas Perry.

Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Tuesday, 22 July 2003 13:56 (twenty-two years ago)

If that's true Cybele then I shouldn't be allowed anywhere near it.

Pete (Pete), Tuesday, 22 July 2003 14:10 (twenty-two years ago)

JBR speaks truth from where I sit. God love my near compatriots in the UCI writing program (since I was straight up Eng lit), but sometimes I wondered how much genre fiction they had actually read.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 22 July 2003 15:35 (twenty-two years ago)

ELMORE LEONARD'S RULES OF FICTION WRITING:

1. Never open a book with weather. The reader is apt to leaf ahead looking
for people.

2. Avoid prologues. They can be annoying.

3. Never use a verb other than "said" to carry dialogue. The line of
dialogue belongs to the character; the verb is the writer sticking his/her
nose in.

4. Never use an adverb to modify "said." It can interrupt the rhythm of the
exchange.

5. Keep your exclamation points under control. You are allowed no more than
two or three per 100,000 words of prose.

6. Never use the words "suddenly" or "all hell broke loose."

7. Use regional dialect or patois sparingly. Once you start spelling words
in dialogue phonetically and loading the page with apostrophes, you won't be
able to stop.

8. Avoid detailed description of characters.

9. Don't go into great detail describing places and things, unless you're
Margaret Atwood.

10. Try to leave out the part that readers tend to skip.

11. If it sounds like writing, rewrite it. If proper usage gets in the way,
it may have to go.

Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Tuesday, 22 July 2003 15:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Right down to the name of the main character, pete...

cybele (cybele), Tuesday, 22 July 2003 15:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Cripes!!!! Oryx and Crake WORST BOOK EVAH!!!!

I bet she does really nice descriptions ofthe countryside the infected are rampaging through though.

Pete (Pete), Tuesday, 22 July 2003 15:57 (twenty-two years ago)

3. Never use a verb other than "said" to carry dialogue. The line of
dialogue belongs to the character; the verb is the writer sticking his/her
nose in.

4. Never use an adverb to modify "said." It can interrupt the rhythm of the
exchange.


One of my journalism teachers told me the same thing. I agree with it, actually.

Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 22 July 2003 16:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Said it before and will say it again, can't stand Atwood's novels but her poetry is disturbingly good.

Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Tuesday, 22 July 2003 16:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Mr Noodles, not only are you right about this (ie--

you fit into me
like a hook and eye

a fish hook
an open eye

it also applies to Odantjee(sp)

anthony easton (anthony), Tuesday, 22 July 2003 20:46 (twenty-two years ago)

FUCK! I went out and bought 'Oryx and Crake' at lunchtime and now you guys tell me it SUCKS? $23 down the drain! ;-) I'll consider it light summertime reading and leave it at that.

Bryan (Bryan), Tuesday, 22 July 2003 20:53 (twenty-two years ago)

http://query.nytimes.com/search/full-page?res=9F04EEDA163FF93BA25756C0A9659C8B63

Compare opening para to Ballard statement above. Does it all depend on whether one believes that 'premise' determines 'character'?

dave q, Monday, 4 August 2003 09:35 (twenty-two years ago)

one year passes...
ELMORE LEONARD'S RULES OF FICTION WRITING:

These are the worst rules of writing that I've ever read in my life and I disagree with almost all of them. Except 5 and 6, everything else is utter rubbish.

Anyway, I just finished this book yesterday. I know that I'm two years out of date, but I would still like to talk about it. I guess I prefer to evaluate things for themselves after all the hype has gone away.

Generally, I like Atwood better as a fiction writer than a Sci-Fi writer. I think the Handmaid's Tale is fairly overrated. However, Oryx and Crake struck me as a better sci fi story.

MIS Information (kate), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 08:13 (twenty years ago)

O&C was recommended to me by someone in my Genetics class. I thought it was an enjoyable read. I haven't read any other Atwood though, this book has not made more less or more likely to. I guess I liked the sci-finess of it.

Hours before starting this book, I started and finished The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night Time, which I enjoyed, but not as much as I thought I should.

marianna, Tuesday, 5 July 2005 08:56 (twenty years ago)

I have read a lot of Atwood, and what I like about her is her ability to do description, both of scenes and of characters, in a way that seems both real and deep. She especially captures the sense of alienation, of outsiderhood, in a way which doesn't make it seem overglamourised. Also she manages to put ambivalent characters into moral dilemmas in a way that doesn't turn them into instant canned heroes.

Situations will be explained, sometimes overexplained, but you are really left to draw your own conclusions about the actions that the protagonists take.

MIS Information (kate), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 09:00 (twenty years ago)

O&C is an enjoyable read but second-rate Atwood IMO. I've liked all her novels except Alias Grace. A Handmaid's Tale is probably her best, too nasty to be purely enjoyable but very compulsive and more tightly structured than her other books. The Blind Assassin is the one I enjoyed most although other people have found it too baggy.

frankiemachine, Tuesday, 5 July 2005 09:16 (twenty years ago)

I loved Alias Grace. And thought Handmaid's Tale was a bit forced.

Blind Assassin is sitting in my "to read" pile.

I couldn't say which was my favourite. Surfacing was strange but amazing. I also couldn't put down The Robber Bride.

MIS Information (kate), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 09:18 (twenty years ago)

i think that its better then handmaids, and first rate--brilliant in its wit, dark, scary, sad and kind of sexy--with the utopian getting half an inch from being real.

anthony easton (anthony), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 09:37 (twenty years ago)

"ELMORE LEONARD'S RULES OF FICTION WRITING:
1. Never open a book with weather. The reader is apt to leaf ahead looking for people."

robert musil! you hack!

N_RQ, Tuesday, 5 July 2005 09:41 (twenty years ago)

I liked The Robber Bride very much. I haven't read Surfacing and one or two of the earlier ones. The Blind Assassin is closest to TRB so I suspect you will like it very much; it's a similar skewed take on a kind of popular fiction - this time the slightly worthier and more literary respectable romantic family saga, more Daphne De Maurier and less Danielle Steele.

The character of Zenia marred TRB slightly for me. I don't think Atwood finally decided whether she was a "real" character (ie with the same ontological status as the other women) or a personification of the other characters' deepest anxieties; consequently she wasn't quite successful as either.

Alias Grace I didn't get at all. The story didn't interest me and Grace's proto feminism seemed anachronistic and forced: not because she thought women were as good as men, or that men conspired to deny it, or that some social values were thinly disguised misogyny, but because she thought these things using concepts and language that seemed jarringly inappropriate to her historical period, her education and her character.

frankiemachine, Tuesday, 5 July 2005 10:15 (twenty years ago)

But that was what I liked about TRB - the ambivalence of both author and characters to Zenia. It never was clearly stated, it was left to the reader to figure it out. I don't think the author necessarily has to have the answers when they write a book.

MIS Information (kate), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 10:17 (twenty years ago)

eight years pass...

I quite love this book. find it hard to put it down, which rarely happens with a novel these days. How are the other two 'sequels'?

akm, Tuesday, 14 January 2014 21:01 (twelve years ago)

there are sequels?!

the late great, Tuesday, 14 January 2014 21:02 (twelve years ago)

i love this book

the late great, Tuesday, 14 January 2014 21:03 (twelve years ago)

i am 1/3 of the way through this at the moment and can't really seem to get over the hump where i have to make myself pick it up--but i'll keep plugging away.

ryan, Tuesday, 14 January 2014 21:17 (twelve years ago)

JG Ballard - "Even the worst sci-fi is better than the best regular fi"

lol what is the source of this quote? cuz I think I kind of agree

Ayn Rand Akbar (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 14 January 2014 21:19 (twelve years ago)

it's straight-up googleable, Shakey:

http://www.jgballard.ca/non_fiction/jgb_fictions.html

mh, Tuesday, 14 January 2014 21:30 (twelve years ago)

yes there are two other books, Year of the Flood and Maddadam. They take place in the same world, don't think they revisit specific characters.

akm, Tuesday, 14 January 2014 22:00 (twelve years ago)

YotF introduces a lot of new characters but expands on the main O&C story I think, and then Maddadam follows most of those YotF characters.

festival culture (Jordan), Tuesday, 14 January 2014 22:23 (twelve years ago)

four months pass...

Darren Aronofsky to film an adaptation of Oryx and Crake, The Year of the Flood, and MaddAddam for HBO.

panic disorder pixie (Sanpaku), Thursday, 5 June 2014 21:34 (twelve years ago)

so excited

Mordy, Thursday, 5 June 2014 21:46 (twelve years ago)

That could actually be really really great. I loved the first two, never made it through Maddadam. Is it worth sticking with it?

Brio2, Thursday, 5 June 2014 22:20 (twelve years ago)

somehow I doubt this will make it to screen

Number None, Thursday, 5 June 2014 22:53 (twelve years ago)

three months pass...

I liked the first two books but Maddadam is kind of dragging now... There's nothing for these characters to do any more but sit around and reflect on the past and bicker among one another... There's an unconvincing romantic plot being forced on me too which I'm a bit concerned about. Hopefully it'll pick up by the end.

monoprix à dimanche (dog latin), Monday, 8 September 2014 13:53 (eleven years ago)

two weeks pass...

Where does the "oon" part of the pigoon come from? Baboon?

Hakeem Olajuwon Howard (Leee), Thursday, 25 September 2014 23:37 (eleven years ago)

raccoon i thought?

zip it shrimpy (dog latin), Friday, 26 September 2014 00:18 (eleven years ago)

Really? I guess they didn't want to let the other half go to waste after creating the rakunks.

pig∞n (Leee), Friday, 26 September 2014 00:34 (eleven years ago)

man i want to see real pigoons

akm, Friday, 26 September 2014 06:58 (eleven years ago)

xpost, it's just my assumption. i don't think it's ever explained.

zip it shrimpy (dog latin), Friday, 26 September 2014 08:16 (eleven years ago)

two months pass...

Mystery solved!

Pig + balloons = balloons.

From Year of the Flood.

TAKING SIDES: HUMANS VS. GUACAMOLEEE (Leee), Saturday, 6 December 2014 00:15 (eleven years ago)

Pig + balloons = balloons pigoons.

TAKING SIDES: HUMANS VS. GUACAMOLEEE (Leee), Saturday, 6 December 2014 00:15 (eleven years ago)

Well I'll be.

dive inside water and you will know (dog latin), Saturday, 6 December 2014 00:25 (eleven years ago)

three weeks pass...

Finished MaddAddam earlier this week, loved it. Funny thing is how romanticized it and Year of the Flood make the GGs, like I'm now having daydreams about living off the grid as an expert mycologist or something.

Baruch Olbermann (Leee), Saturday, 27 December 2014 03:29 (eleven years ago)

http://www.reddit.com/r/books/comments/2qprzk/i_am_margaret_atwood_author_of_the_handmaids_tale/

Baruch Olbermann (Leee), Monday, 29 December 2014 23:25 (eleven years ago)


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