Can you really love somebody else if you don't love yoruself?

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Read also 'know' for 'love'.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Monday, 15 September 2003 12:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Nick are you asking, "are you ready, are you ready for love"

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 15 September 2003 12:40 (twenty-two years ago)

You have to bring everything back to the fact that I wont sleep with you, don't you?

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Monday, 15 September 2003 12:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Read also "Can you really love somebody else if you're not happy with yourself?"

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Monday, 15 September 2003 12:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Is there anything I can type here to clean up my name?

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 15 September 2003 12:44 (twenty-two years ago)

It depends what you mean by 'really'. And by 'love'.

― Archel (Archel), Monday, 15 September 2003 12:44 (twenty-two years ago)

They're subjective terms anyway, Archel, so project your own criteria onto the question.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Monday, 15 September 2003 12:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Hm. Yes to the original question, then. Probably no to 'know'.

― Archel (Archel), Monday, 15 September 2003 12:52 (twenty-two years ago)

my answer is yes, but it's less likely to work out because you're more likely to be needy and clingy.

― Maria (Maria), Monday, 15 September 2003 13:04 (twenty-two years ago)

No, I don't necessarily believe that person will be more needy/clingy. What could happen is that, if the other loves you back, you won't understand why he/she loves you. (Low self-esteem gives a distorted picture of self. )

― nathalie (nathalie), Monday, 15 September 2003 13:30 (twenty-two years ago)

PLUR!

― teeny (teeny), Monday, 15 September 2003 13:31 (twenty-two years ago)

learning to love yrself is the greatest love of all.

― MarkH (MarkH), Monday, 15 September 2003 14:01 (twenty-two years ago)

The short answer is NO and I also disagree w/ Maria - the person isn't needy or clingy, but on the contrary abusive...not necessarily physically but always, to some extent, emotionally.

They can't imagine anyone else loving them, since they can't love themselves...so they turn that love inside out and take it for granted. And before you know it, in a zillion different ways, upi'll soon realize that you're being fucked over

― Vic (Vic), Monday, 15 September 2003 14:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Do I have to love Yoruself?

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Monday, 15 September 2003 14:20 (twenty-two years ago)

upi'll = you'll

I don't know Yoruself personally

― Vic (Vic), Monday, 15 September 2003 14:34 (twenty-two years ago)

i said what i did because if you find it hard to believe someone could love you, you're likely to be looking for validation (as subtly as possible, but that might not be very subtle), and i think that's harmful in the end.

― Maria (Maria), Monday, 15 September 2003 14:35 (twenty-two years ago)

but every self-loathing person i've known or heard about, has generally tried their partners like shit, or close friends. as opposed to being needy. i think it has to do with selfishness. i can testify to this in some personal histoire

― Vic (Vic), Monday, 15 September 2003 14:42 (twenty-two years ago)

tried = treated. =)

― Vic, Monday, 15 September 2003 14:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Epigram Tep says:

Not loving yourself is like being colorblind; you can still see everything, and you won't fall down all the time, and you're not actually handicapped, but relationships are Magic Eye pictures you'll always be shit at and -- whether you admit it or not -- will never quite see the point of.

Actual But Very Tired Tep says:

Sure, anyone can love anything. What you can't do is appreciate what that means you should do, and if you love someone but don't love yourself, it probably isn't going to do them any good. You probably love them because of something you take from them or something you want from them, even if in the second case that something isn't something that can be given (if you want to be them, for instance). Love isn't difficult. It doesn't actually require skill, or intelligence, or merit, or care, any more than farting does, or spitting on a lizard. Being good at it, and making it worth your time, that's a whole nother kettle.

― Tep (ktepi), Monday, 15 September 2003 15:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Do I mean epigram? I know I don't mean anagram. Mind the "very tired" bit in the capitals there.

― Tep (ktepi), Monday, 15 September 2003 15:37 (twenty-two years ago)

What about if you love/hate yourself in equal measures?

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 15 September 2003 18:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes you can. Because I do.

― ailsa (ailsa), Monday, 15 September 2003 18:53 (twenty-two years ago)

is there a thin line between it?

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 15 September 2003 18:55 (twenty-two years ago)

(I was answering the thread question, not Ronan's)

― ailsa (ailsa), Monday, 15 September 2003 18:58 (twenty-two years ago)

You can be concerned for the well-being of others, hopeful for their own happiness, and think someone is an amazing individual, even if you're not concerned at all for your own well-being, extremely doubtful about your own happiness, and think you're a horrible or substandard individual.

Ergo, the answer to this question is an unquestioning, powerful YES.

― Just Deanna (Dee the Lurker), Monday, 15 September 2003 19:00 (twenty-two years ago)

To know what it's like to love someone else, (I think) it's a given that you have to love yourself, first. Otherwise, how would you know what traits cause you to love them, in the first place?

― Nichole Graham (Nichole Graham), Monday, 15 September 2003 19:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Love impossible without self-love? The continuing existence of the human species has got to disprove that somehow

― dave q, Monday, 15 September 2003 19:03 (twenty-two years ago)

One can love others without fully loving oneself, no doubt, but it can become a huge problem when you rely entirely on the presence of/connection to the particuarly loved-one for your own happiness/stability, both for you and for them.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 15 September 2003 19:03 (twenty-two years ago)

If you're not concerned with your own well-being, and can't manage your own happiness, you're not really in the position to give anyone else any -- you may hit the money once in awhile, but ultimately you're as unqualified for the role as I am to be a driving instructor: you can feel love, but in the long run it won't do anyone much good. (This thread just shows how vague the word is.)

― Tep (ktepi), Monday, 15 September 2003 19:05 (twenty-two years ago)

that's sex dave

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 15 September 2003 19:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, the whole thing is a bit vague. I am concerned with my own well-being most of the time, but I would never go as far as to classify it as loving myself. This has, in the past, had an adverse affect on relationships, but at the moment, it isn't doing so. I would not consider myself unqualified to love anyone else - I can see many a quality in my husband that I just can't see in myself. Just because I can't attribute many things to myself doesn't disqualify me from attributing them elsewhere.

― ailsa (ailsa), Monday, 15 September 2003 19:17 (twenty-two years ago)

But certainly you can love humanity in general and by default want them to lead the best lives they can lead without necessarily being a fan of yourself, hm? I don't know. I'm going to have to work on some issues concering similar topics in my own personal life, and maybe then I'll have a bit more clarity on this topic, but I do quite honestly believe that there are individuals out there who love people, who also hate themselves. I'm absolutely convinced of it.

― Just Deanna (Dee the Lurker), Monday, 15 September 2003 19:20 (twenty-two years ago)

But certainly you can love humanity in general and by default want them to lead the best lives they can lead without necessarily being a fan of yourself, hm?

Honestly, no, I don't think so. I think self-loathing can put on altruism's pants and walk around, but ultimately it unravels (I'm not sure how I feel about self-apathy, especially if it were posited in the absence of external apathy). That doesn't necessarily discount the good done while ... uh ... wearing the pants.

... I'm operating on a truncated language set right now, ping me when the rest of Tep is awake again :)

― Tep (ktepi), Monday, 15 September 2003 19:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Are we working with percentages here? I mean, what if I only love myself 96.4%... do I have to get up to 99.999 before my feelings are Ivory Pure and deserving of the word love?

― Kim (Kim), Monday, 15 September 2003 23:28 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm treating it as a more or less binary thing -- see, that's the thing about this word, "loving yourself" doesn't have to be adoring yourself, thinking about how great you are, and so on ... it doesn't have to feel the same way it feels when you love someone else. (which is probably why we tend to mean "in love with yourself" negatively.)

― Tep (ktepi), Monday, 15 September 2003 23:42 (twenty-two years ago)

i think you can hate yourself and really love someone else. the important thing is to be aware of how your self-hate affects other people and not to let it get in the way of issues like trust etc.

― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Monday, 15 September 2003 23:48 (twenty-two years ago)

is there a thin line between it?

Martin Lawrence to thread.

― Nicolars (Nicole), Monday, 15 September 2003 23:58 (twenty-two years ago)

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